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When I get a good amount of scrolls I go to a new floor, stay on the stairs and blind id em all. That way you can go back up to the previous floor if you get teleport or something nasty. The bad scrolls are pretty benign for the most part if you're ready for them.
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May 19, 2017 17:07
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So there isn't any rule of thumb for potion colors or scrolls and their effect? I'll keep your advice in mind regarding testing them. Is Hill Orc Fighter a pretty reasonable choice for the shortest win? Three Rune, if I've gathered correctly?
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May 19, 2017 17:07
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fool_of_sound posted:TBH there's really not much risk to blind IDing anymore outside of wasting some resources. Forgot about Distortion/Drain, yeah those are good things to guard against too. I put amulets of Harm up there too with poo poo I Want to Know What They Are First Before Putting On for the same reasons. Hill Orcs are fine, most people go with Minotaurs and Gargoyles too. Fighting is a great skill to put points into.
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May 19, 2017 17:11
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Any kind of fighter with decent aptitudes is a solid choice for a first win. My first was with a Hill Orc Monk of Beogh which played largely the same as a fighter. Beogh is a god that only hill orcs can worship that is incredibly fun and quite powerful. It let's you essentially become the orc messiah, converting enemy orcs to your side that will level up and upgrade as they fight with you. You can even convert dangerous unique orcs with one of the higher level abilities. If you're looking for an interesting god to worship, the first orc priest you encouter will try to convert you to Beogh.
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May 19, 2017 17:14
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tweet my meat posted:To be fair a lot of the "constructive" criticism is quite passive aggresive as well and loaded with a lot of hyperbole. It's a bad change to be sure, but trying to drive away the devs that post here by getting in sick burns probably ain't the way to get it changed. I think it's a mix of people trying to iceburn the devs but devs also posting a lot of passive aggressive stuff and shrugging off criticism rather than trying to engage in it/understand it. I see most of the dev response to criticism being argumentative rather than asking questions - "why don't you like this stuff, how do you think it could be done differently, what do you see as the underlying issue". Obviously sometimes the devs have good ideas that can be obtuse from a player perspective but at the same time when it comes to issues of enjoyment and frustration, if you're not paying attention to the player base you're intentionally ignoring your most powerful resource. 1. Players need to get over iceburning devs and stick to constructive criticism and suggestions - but that's going to require... 2. ...Devs actually engaging with players over design decisions rather than automatically seeking to defend decisions. But that means... 3. ...Devs will have to abandon some of the sunk cost fallacies they're holding on to. Tomb is a strong example of this.
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May 19, 2017 17:18
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tweet my meat posted:To be fair a lot of the "constructive" criticism is quite passive aggresive as well and loaded with a lot of hyperbole. It's a bad change to be sure, but trying to drive away the devs that post here by getting in sick burns probably ain't the way to get it changed. Ah, you maybe are brand new to the thread. Every time High Elves are removed people post generally poor quality but correct things about why the devs are wrong, then a dev responds, then one-two people give 500+ word responses that articulate clearly and in no uncertain terms why the devs reasons are incorrect and nothing happens. The devs hash everything over and over before making big decisions so there's no way to influence a choice already made. The word of Zin comes down and we are all the orc unfortunate enough to be standing next to a confused troll.
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May 19, 2017 17:20
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tweet my meat posted:Any kind of fighter with decent aptitudes is a solid choice for a first win. This sounds EXTREMELY my poo poo 
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May 19, 2017 17:21
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Dandywalken posted:This sounds EXTREMELY my poo poo Hell yeah dude. It's not a traditional first win god, but it's extremely fun and certainly not lacking in power. Check out this guys video series if you want a few pointers on how to play it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G8JgOmot0s Chakan posted:Ah, you maybe are brand new to the thread. Every time High Elves are removed people post generally poor quality but correct things about why the devs are wrong, then a dev responds, then one-two people give 500+ word responses that articulate clearly and in no uncertain terms why the devs reasons are incorrect and nothing happens. Yeah, the solid criticisms laid out in well constructed posts tend to get washed away in the sea of bad ones. I know it happens every time, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. tweet my meat fucked around with this message at 17:35 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 17:30
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Dandywalken posted:So there isn't any rule of thumb for potion colors or scrolls and their effect? I'll keep your advice in mind regarding testing them. Yeah, that is a good choice. You can go with okawaru or trog for help beating on people as an alternative to beogh.
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May 19, 2017 17:32
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tweet my meat posted:Any kind of fighter with decent aptitudes is a solid choice for a first win.
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May 19, 2017 17:33
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Chakan posted:Ah, you maybe are brand new to the thread. Every time High Elves are removed people post generally poor quality but correct things about why the devs are wrong, then a dev responds, then one-two people give 500+ word responses that articulate clearly and in no uncertain terms why the devs reasons are incorrect and nothing happens. As someone who has been reading this thread since (I think) 0.12, my perception is that the devs make changes to the game and then posters here massively overreact, usually without having tested the change in the slightest. Then when a dev explains why they made a change, they'll get railroaded until they decide to stop posting here. I mean, there's what? 5 or 6 pages of pearl clutching in this thread about boulder beetles being removed? Boulder beetles were dumb and sucked. E: My point here is that the game is still just as fun as it's ever been and the overwhelming majority of changes have been positive. Shouldn't the devs deserve the benefit of the doubt considering how much advancement it's made? Old Dun Cow fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 17:36
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Old Dun Cow posted:As someone who has been reading this thread since (I think) 0.12, my perception is that the devs make changes to the game and then posters here massively overreact, usually without having tested the change in the slightest. Then when a dev explains why they made a change, they'll get railroaded until they decide to stop posting here. While this does happen, there's a lot of Good Posts here and in past threads, and they tend to be largely ignored or glossed over and then abandoned, they're not that hard to find. Admittedly whenever I do have criticisms they aren't nearly as well articulated as some of the better posters here but I think they're not baseless, and everything I talk about is based on actual experience unless I specify otherwise.
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May 19, 2017 17:48
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Clear the entrance area of Tomb:1, take off your armor, put on all the +int gear you can find, quaff brilliance, then shatter your way to the right staircase.
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May 19, 2017 17:58
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Old Dun Cow posted:As someone who has been reading this thread since (I think) 0.12 Look at how you are. The game is much less fun now.
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May 19, 2017 18:00
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I basically don't have fun playing the game anymore so no I don't agree at all that it's as fun as it's ever been. Edit: To elaborate, this is an overstatement, but the niggling details that make me dislike the direction the game's been going are constantly on my mind, so it's absolutely me overreacting a bit, but I still think the game is worse than it was 3 versions ago. mdct fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 18:08
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Old Dun Cow posted:As someone who has been reading this thread since (I think) 0.12, my perception is that the devs make changes to the game and then posters here massively overreact, usually without having tested the change in the slightest. Then when a dev explains why they made a change, they'll get railroaded until they decide to stop posting here. How do you like the mutation/Malmutate meta-game right now? What about Entropy Weavers? Do you think boulder beetles were so lovely that rather than tweak them into something interesting using the various suggestions posted here they should have been outright removed? This isn't me trying to be snide, I'm honestly curious as to your thoughts on these things because there have been tons of QoL improvements to the game but the direction of removing stuff and nerfing/modifying things to oblivion like the WJC because of the mythical HAM has led to a sterile "no fun allowed" experience being developed.
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May 19, 2017 18:15
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The boulder beetle discussion that happened recently was long after boulder beetles were removed, and was less "pearl-clutching" (christ, i hate that term) and more an example of a change that, generally, worsened flavor without having a meaningful impact on game balance. it also wasn't as long as you stated.
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May 19, 2017 18:16
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my team: You are now leaving Flavor Town e: will wait until I can actually make a team. lizardhunt fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 18:22
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Speleothing posted:Look at how you are. The game is much less fun now. again I gotta really ask, is there somehow still a contingent of crawl players who really liked item destruction and equipment degradation and enchantment scrolls randomly failing and some chunks making you nauseated
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May 19, 2017 18:30
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also I'm glad to see the tomb 3 doors change, which looks like it could make tomb 3 scary but fun. by the sounds of it tomb 2 still needs work though
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May 19, 2017 18:32
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IronicDongz posted:also I'm glad to see the tomb 3 doors change, which looks like it could make tomb 3 scary but fun. by the sounds of it tomb 2 still needs work though Yeah the tomb 3 change is positive. The tomb 2 change is really bad though. Also, I'm still irritated that rMsl is gone. It's really difficult for non-heavy-armor characters to survive yaktaurs now.
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May 19, 2017 18:33
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I generally support the changes devs usually make but 0.20 has so little going for it. The only thing I'm looking forward to is frogs, but that's a wash given high elves are going away. Usually the number of positive changes far outweigh the ones I have issue with but that isn't the case this time. And I've tried making clear and detailed posts about my thoughts behind stuff like extended before and it just gets ignored. I've been waiting for a dev to do something about hell glow for ages, an objectively awful and unfair mechanic. Its been 3 versions since the mutation change and the only thing you can do against hell glow is chug cancellation, a rare consumable, or get hosed. So to see something like that get ignored and then have a dev go "you know what Tomb needs? It needs to be harder" is pretty annoying.
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May 19, 2017 18:36
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IronicDongz posted:Compared to 0.12? I don't think anyone here is in favor of those things, and there are definitely some nice QoL changes recently like the noise meter, but the problem is that they're accompanied by other bullshit. Bob NewSCART posted:Wait, was that an actual dev telling people if they aren't happy just go compile your own version of the game after patching what "you believe is better, personally" and then have fun with that instead? Holy poo poo lmao I'm a fairly casual player but it feels like the peak was maybe around 0.17 or 0.18. I haven't been playing lately because I've been in a brain space where I don't enjoy hard permadeath games, and seeing these changes isn't exactly encouraging. I'm pretty sure gammafunk is saying 'send us the patch and we'll consider incorporating it', which would be kind of a jerkish thing to say even if the audience was a bunch of other devs. Saying it to a group full of your users, most of whom aren't familiar with C++ and the crawl codebase, is pretty bad community relations.
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May 19, 2017 19:27
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FulsomFrank posted:How do you like the mutation/Malmutate meta-game right now? What about Entropy Weavers? Do you think boulder beetles were so lovely that rather than tweak them into something interesting using the various suggestions posted here they should have been outright removed? I found the recent mutation potion update really changed the mutation game a lot. I'm still playing around with it but my current game is skewing my perspective a bit because I drew the fleshworks wizlab and left with 30 potions. My general perception is that mutation has become less dangerous but far more unpredictable because you can no longer just flush yourself clean outside of Zin. That has a nice gutcheck good feel to it because mutation should probably be an inherently volatile effect. I think entropy weavers were overall an interesting but somewhat flawed add. Spider was far too easy and plain. The frequency of corrosion should probably be dialed down or given a chance to resist because it sometimes results in an overwhelming situation far too quickly. But even still, there's only 1 pseudo-ranged enemy in spider. You can always burn 2 blink scrolls or a blink and a teleport or blink and haste or fear and haste. I think you're missing that a lot of the recent updates are more than just QoL changes, though. They've added Ru, Qazlal, Gozag, Usk, Hep, the mangled version of WJC, reworked Sif, totally reworked amulets, added scarfs and unique scarf brands, added Barachians, added riposte. Also, this has snuck up on me, but a lot of the fixedarts have been made way better. These are all from .16 on, I think. I'm not saying that the changes are all perfect and fun. I just don't see where the rage is coming from. Old Dun Cow fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 19:31
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I think even .18 is unplayable because auto_butcher is just so good. Small things like that are way better for the game then screwing up a single extended branch.
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May 19, 2017 19:35
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I don't get the hate on the changes to to Tomb. First off, it's extended, which means it's mostly irrelevant. Second, while I would hate to see the tactical use of stairs disappear from this game, the Vaults and Tombs endings are extreme examples where the gameplay became samey and repetitive. In both cases I see multiple strategies arising all of which seem more interesting than stairdancing. I'm not going to say the implementation is unflawed in its present state, but this thread has a pretty bad habit of teeing off on changes without testing them or even reviewing them in detail. I don't play much extended anymore as I find the game is fun, balanced, and creates interesting/novel situations at 3-5 runes and not so much later. So I don't really care if Tomb gets harder if it gets more interesting to finish. What I like about recent releases are the glut of thoughtful and helpful changes to the interface that make the game much more of an ease and joy to play: - searches stacking items and finding stuff in your inventory - stairs you've already seen the other side off identified and used for fast travel - being able to identify and use most items on the floor - removal of sacrificing - ammo consolidation, ranged combat simplification - chunks/fruit consolidation, general ease of dealing with butchering and eating - clear display of weapon minimum delay breakpoints - cost of skills shown on training screen - dangerous weapon brands shown - monster resists for hexes/wands/etc show - much better info when inspecting monsters and ghosts, especially potential damage taken I think it should also be noted how much work has gone into the game tiles. There used to be some comically bad ones and some of the dungeon feature tiles were practically bad MS Paint jobs.
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May 19, 2017 20:08
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apple posted:More to the point, even if Tomb:3 layout changes are possibly an improvement, these changes are still centered around the transporter gimmick, which is being used to address a perceived symptom (stairdancing) instead of the root cause of it being a popular strategy in the first place (because Tomb and its enemies), and I have my doubts this will be addressed since there's such a heavy focus on making transporters work rather than making Tomb work; I don't think these are aligned. I think you're a little confused, bananaken. No transporters place in Tomb, and the transporter feature has nothing to do with Tomb. What Tomb does have now is fixed-destination hatches, but it's the only place using those. Not that we couldn't use them elsewhere, but they'll probably remain as a unique aspect of Tomb itself.
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May 19, 2017 22:38
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Yes, I meant hatches. I fixed the post, good catch 
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May 19, 2017 23:05
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Oh hey I haven't played in a while why not see what the latest-- But seriously, yay tournament, I might as well play a few for it. I am pretty rusty, but not as rusty as the last time I put the game down and picked it back up, lol.
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May 19, 2017 23:25
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What exactly does a tournament entail?
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May 19, 2017 23:28
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you play a lot while it's running and get points for runes and wins. you also get extra points for fast wins and wins with unpopular combos, as well as randomly chosen combos which are often weird. you can be part of a team and have points as a team(as well as individually). there are also banners which are basically achievements.
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May 19, 2017 23:36
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Are boulder beetles a playable race yet?
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May 19, 2017 23:43
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Trunko posted:Are boulder beetles a playable race yet?
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May 19, 2017 23:46
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IronicDongz posted:you play a lot while it's running and get points for runes and wins. you also get extra points for fast wins and wins with unpopular combos, as well as randomly chosen combos which are often weird. Oh cool, a shame I'm too used to all the conveniences the desktop client allows to be able to handle online play.
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May 19, 2017 23:57
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Trunko posted:Are boulder beetles a playable race yet? Don't get distracted, crabs need to be a race first. 
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May 19, 2017 23:57
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tweet my meat posted:Oh cool, a shame I'm too used to all the conveniences the desktop client allows to be able to handle online play. I was like you once, but the tiles version really isn't significantly different, except for the lack of mouse support. You get used to it really quick. Also, everyone complaining about the poor abused devs - this would carry a lot more water if the devs responded in non-passive aggressive ways to anything that isn't absolute adultation and glowing praise. Thw threads used to be pretty chill, devs used to come in and talk abput changes and sometimes even respond by using the suggestions, or at the very least not immediately shooting them down and telling the posters to learn a code language and make their own game if they don't like it. I'm not sure if its changes in who the active devs are, burn out, or what, but the devs are just as responsible for the terrible environment in this thread as the people who dislike their changes are.
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May 20, 2017 00:06
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Captain Monkey posted:I was like you once, but the tiles version really isn't significantly different, except for the lack of mouse support. You get used to it really quick. Online tiles has mouse support now, apparently, according to the changelog (though I've never tried it and can't say how good it is or how much it differs from local tiles).
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May 20, 2017 00:29
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Got my fourth win  I have no idea why 25 people thought it was a good idea to watch me claw poo poo to death as a TrMo for an afternoon though. i'm not even any good!
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May 20, 2017 02:55
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Prism posted:Online tiles has mouse support now, apparently, according to the changelog (though I've never tried it and can't say how good it is or how much it differs from local tiles). It probably works just fine, but I can't imagine wanting to switch between the keyboard and the mouse all the time while you're playing. Or having to remember to keep the mouse cursor away from the main game area when not in use so you don't accidentally click poo poo.
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May 20, 2017 02:57
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Haifisch posted:Its main function is to remind you to copy/paste your trunk rc when playing a stable release, and it's pretty good at that in my experience. That's pretty much why I've never tried it. I alt-tab too much and sometimes click back into the window.
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May 20, 2017 03:07
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