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Groovelord Neato posted:that is some powerful logic. Agreed.
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May 20, 2017 15:09
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There is a review on a forum called AVP galaxy that I really liked:quote:Just saw Alien: Covenant last night. After viewing it, I was impressed with how everything is starting to connect with the entire Alien universe. This connection is occurring at both a plot and thematic/philosophical level. I was particularly stunned at how Scott was still able to thread the philosophical nature of Prometheus with pacing/horror of the original series - all in an attempt to assuage Prometheus' critics. He's right, David is the main anchor of the prequel series, and his story clearly embodies the philosophical themes that Scott is pursuing. I love the significance of David getting the poem's author wrong; and the whole impact of David speaking with Weyland in the beginning. I really enjoy how smart the prequel series is. I really need to see this again.
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May 20, 2017 15:28
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Plus David's rage at his creators, as a Prometheus stand-in, is pretty understandable. Prometheus steals fire from the gods but that "fire" is meant to be creativity, the ability to create and build stuff. David has to steal that from his creators' creators because his own creators didn't see fit to give it to him. I posted a lot about this in the old Prometheus thread, but in that movie you really got the impression that David "realizes" he is the next step of humanity, and going by all mythology, a hundred years from then humanity should be gone and the world populated by a bunch of synthetics, but he can't reproduce on his own. Weyland wants answers to the mysteries of the universe, and like any artist we see what he wants his creations. He doesn't create a son in David, he literally creates God - a sentient but distant being that is immortal, effectively omniscient, and super powerful. But he tries to have it all by attempting to constrain him into being his "son" also. And since David, by the very nature of his being cannot possibly fulfill that role he's a failure to Weyland. Everything about the opening conversation in Covenant drives this home in a huge way. David's knowledge, especially throughout Prometheus, it becomes explicit that he has a strong understanding of how the engineers work from his own research. No one thinks to just say "Hey David what's going on?" because they don't even regard him as worth talking to. Even at the very end, we see him take the form of Mimir from Norse mythology, and surely an ancient aliens all myths were aliens helping us person like Shaw of all people should have noticed the parallels, yet instead of consulting him she just tells him to send them off to the planet that ship came from.
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May 20, 2017 16:03
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I've always wondered why androids would have such counter-productive emotions that make them unreliable and even dangerous. What programmer would give an android rapey-murder instincts? My imagining is that they don't code android minds from scratch, but rather copy a human's mind into a computer, modify the image to remove undesirable traits, then upload it into an android shell. It saves time and money, but sometimes psychological flaws slip through the screening and modifying process and you get rapey-murder androids.
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May 20, 2017 16:32
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Kurzon posted:I've always wondered why androids would have such counter-productive emotions that make them unreliable and even dangerous. What programmer would give an android rapey-murder instincts? My imagining is that they don't code android minds from scratch, but rather copy a human's mind into a computer, modify the image to remove undesirable traits, then upload it into an android shell. It saves time and money, but sometimes psychological flaws slip through the screening and modifying process and you get rapey-murder androids. rape-murder is an emergent trait of any sufficiently complex intelligence and the xenos are so highly evolved that they just want to rape and murder all the time
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May 20, 2017 16:45
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Kurzon posted:I've always wondered why androids would have such counter-productive emotions that make them unreliable and even dangerous. What programmer would give an android rapey-murder instincts? My imagining is that they don't code android minds from scratch, but rather copy a human's mind into a computer, modify the image to remove undesirable traits, then upload it into an android shell. It saves time and money, but sometimes psychological flaws slip through the screening and modifying process and you get rapey-murder androids. If you're designing an android to be as close to human as possible, the ability to express the complete range of human emotions would be a big part of that. Walter tells David that the company learned from that "mistake", and made changes to make them more predictable. David seems to have some sort of emergent consciousness that goes way beyond what we would think of as a robot though. I don't think he's really able to lie in Prometheus, for instance, but Covenant makes a big deal of showing that now he can.
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May 20, 2017 16:48
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Neo Rasa posted:or since they're androids he plugged a cord from Walter into himself and just knows every bit of information about the ship now, it didn't seem weird to me.[/spoiler]. Er, what? Somewhere in David's completely technology-free caves he's got a cable which is somehow compatible both with himself and a much later model of android (assuming that these androids actually have data transfer ports, which I see no evidence for) and that simply by plugging it in he can easily acquire all of Walter's extremely sensitive passcodes? Really?
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May 20, 2017 17:01
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An old model being compatible with a (let's say) 10 year newer one doesn't seem that unrealistic to me, also people seem to put a looooot of fuckin faith in synthetics in that universe.
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May 20, 2017 17:10
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Julio Cruz posted:Er, what? Somewhere in David's completely technology-free caves he's got a cable which is somehow compatible both with himself and a much later model of android (assuming that these androids actually have data transfer ports, which I see no evidence for) and that simply by plugging it in he can easily acquire all of Walter's extremely sensitive passcodes? Really? Have you seen Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, or Prometheus? Androids in these movies are absurdly resilient and "compatible." Like after for all we know going by how Ash, Bishop, and Call are utilized he kills Walter and then just pulls a "vein" out of himself and plugs it into him. Or he destroyed the right "organ" and was able to just ask him and get a direct answer. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:15 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 17:12
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David also enters the medlab or whatever with the embryos by using his own security code, so the ship is programmed to accept the codes from older models. It's probably an old enough ship that it was in service when the David models were state of the art. Ten years isn't really a long time.
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May 20, 2017 17:15
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Covok posted:As a follow-up, I might be harsh on the film unfairly. The person I saw it with was constantly talking during the movie about how much he found it funny or thought it was stupid. The theater was the same way with their reactions and constant talking. Seriously, everyone was cracking jokes and saying things like "don't go in there." I'm not used to seeing films in the city and prefer how my small town remains respectfully quiet during a movie. This makes me thankful that the Alamo Drafthouse is as strict as they are.
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May 20, 2017 17:16
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It's hilarious that the writer of this movie apparently REALLY liked Prometheus.
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May 20, 2017 17:55
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This movie was good and fun. I can't wait to see it again. I thought David's research and input into their evolution was a great bridge for the Xenomorph from Prometheus to Alien.
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May 20, 2017 18:06
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's hilarious that the writer of this movie apparently REALLY liked Prometheus. Why is that hilarious?
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May 20, 2017 18:25
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Speaking of David's sanity, the lighting and tunnels of the place he was staying reminded me of Apocalypse Now.
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May 20, 2017 18:29
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Huge Christian Pro Life website posted following article. This is 100% legit that they believe this Alien’ movie seemed like a lot of fun…until I found Satan was behind the script https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/alien-movie-seemed-like-a-lot-of-fun...until-i-found-satan-was-behind-the-s Abortion quote:The process of gestation of the aliens in the movies clearly follows the pro-abortion theory of the human child as a parasite or “alien” in the womb of the mother that, after worming its way out of the mother, leaps into the world, consuming everything in site. And transgenderism? quote:The final core component of the Alien movie series is transgenderism and role reversal of males and females. The most prominent example of this is that most of the “births” of aliens in the movie are spawned from males. From the famous eruption of the first xenomorph from the character Kane in Alien to the gestation of the “deacon” xenomorph from the male engineer in Prometheus, the Alien movies reverse the image of the male, making him like a female who can grow life within and give birth. What should Christians do about Alien Covenant? quote:Exposing the darkness and lies of the series can provide the life-and-family movement ammunition for the fight for a true culture of life. But Christians wanting to win the culture war must boycott the works of darkness that present themselves as “entertainment.” And they must engage in the production of their own culture, a culture of life, that weaves a noble vision of the created world as a common home where every person is welcome and each is valued for being created in the image and likeness of God.
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May 20, 2017 18:39
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Alien takes place in 2122. What year was Covenant again?
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May 20, 2017 18:39
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MrMojok posted:Alien takes place in 2122. What year was Covenant again? Prometheus was in 2094. Covenant is in 2104.
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May 20, 2017 18:44
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Yaws posted:Why is that hilarious? Because I let myself think this was going to be a retread of Alien that tried its best to sidestep Prometheus. Not only does it not do that, it fully indulges every nutty philosophical argument put forth in Prometheus to the point that I forgot at some point there was going to be Xenomorphs in it.
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May 20, 2017 18:45
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Basebf555 posted:David also enters the medlab or whatever with the embryos by using his own security code, so the ship is programmed to accept the codes from older models. It's probably an old enough ship that it was in service when the David models were state of the art. Ten years isn't really a long time. 10 years is absolutely a long time in terms of tech evolution, and having 10-year-old access codes still active on your ship would be an incredible security risk.
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May 20, 2017 18:47
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RedSpider posted:Prometheus was in 2094. Covenant is in 2104. David has 18 years to get those eggs on LV 426.
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May 20, 2017 18:49
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RedSpider posted:He's right, David is the main anchor of the prequel series, and his story clearly embodies the philosophical themes that Scott is pursuing. I love the significance of David getting the poem's author wrong; and the whole impact of David speaking with Weyland in the beginning. I really enjoy how smart the prequel series is. quote:1) David mistakenly claims that the poem is written by Byron. This is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT - on a surface level, it shows that David is not programmed correctly, which explains his many violent actions. Good stuff but he's wrong here. Misattributing the author merely proves that David is human. The significance of this is that means there is no question he beats Walter. It's obvious enough anyway, but that's the justification for it. He's creative and adaptable. Walter is not. Note how when David first shows up, there's actually some ambiguity about whether he is male or female. His voice is deep enough, sure, but he's obviously taken on the mannerisms of his companion/mother. (as an aside I loving LOVE that David composes the Prometheus theme on his recorder.)
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May 20, 2017 18:57
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Covok posted:David has 18 years to get those eggs on LV 426. Seems like that's got to be the case, doesn't it? Next film David finds their homeworld or something like that, genocides them too, and one intrepid engineer manages to take off and run to safety not knowing David has put some of his specially-designed eggs on board? Dude is checking his ship when he gets facehugged, manages to crash land on LV426 after waking up. Or the ship lands there on autopilot. MrMojok fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 18:59
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:(as an aside I loving LOVE that David composes the Prometheus theme on his recorder.) Touché. This got a few claps in my theater. 
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May 20, 2017 19:11
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:
Saaaammmee! I love the score to Prometheus and was really hoping I'd pop up somewhere. I liked the musical call back in the garden, but when he played it, that gave me chills. This movie is great. I feel sorry for the fans that just want Aliens again. They can't give into the weirdness, which is what the Alien series has always been about to me.
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May 20, 2017 19:12
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Still processing this film. I have the feeling it will end up a lot like a Prometheus, a movie where I went back and forth on whether I actually liked it or not. I finally came down on the "like" side with Prometheus, mostly because of the production design, a couple of good performances, and a couple of great set-pieces. But it definitely has some serious flaws, and I won't spend a lot of time defending it to people that feel otherwise. We'll see if Covenant gets the same benefit of the doubt. A couple of points: For a film filled with grisly death, the most disturbing is one that happened off-screen and ten years earlier - David using Elizabeth as the first test subject in his horrific experiments. It's not quite up there with Alien 3 killing Newt and Hicks for souring the ending of the previous film, but it's pretty drat close. I'm not saying going this way was bad - David certainly makes a believable mad scientist - but it will make Prometheus a little harder to enjoy, which ended on a somewhat positive note ("a girl and her android, flying off on a mission of discovery to track down the Engineers"). Also, how in the world could the Covenant crew miss that giant Engineer city? Sure, there was a storm going on, but they seemed to have detailed scans, both from the ship and the landing craft. Once they were below the storm, they seemed to have clears lines of sight in all directions. The city was walking distance from the landing point, a few kilometers at most. Maybe it was hidden behind a mountain, it just seemed odd they would miss something so big. It must be visible from orbit, even without scans!
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May 20, 2017 19:18
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Julio Cruz posted:10 years is absolutely a long time in terms of tech evolution, and having 10-year-old access codes still active on your ship would be an incredible security risk. David was Weyland's personal pet and the only one privy to the true purpose of the prometheus mission, he was also given a carte-blanche to do whatever it takes to get Weyland to "meet his makers", I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was just given backdoor access to every computer manufactured by Weyland industries. In fact given that the movie went to a certain lengths to establish the access codes being important and the fact that David just waltzed in and gave his own personal code (and that on top of that, Mother didn't notice the switcheroo) I'd figure it was the only possible implication of that scene.
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May 20, 2017 19:20
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CelticPredator posted:This movie is great. I feel sorry for the fans that just want Aliens again. They can't give into the weirdness, which is what the Alien series has always been about to me. But every single step of the way, it just reinforces the themes of Alien. They even go so far as to hint at a possible second synthesis between android and woman, that Daniels could show Walter love and help him create. This scene even seems to be the end of the film, before perversely revealing the truth. emanresu tnuocca posted:In fact given that the movie went to a certain lengths to establish the access codes being important and the fact that David just waltzed in and gave his own personal code (and that on top of that, Mother didn't notice the switcheroo) I'd figure it was the only possible implication of that scene. It's even pointed out that David is immortal. Of course Weyland's son would have backdoor access. Weyland created him to rule over humans. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:23 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 19:20
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Julio Cruz posted:10 years is absolutely a long time in terms of tech evolution, and having 10-year-old access codes still active on your ship would be an incredible security risk. Didn't the ship have to reboot itself? I just assumed the film implied David somehow had access to implement his own security codes during the reboot. Either way, I'm eagerly awaiting seeing David's creation of the Queen leading to his own death...
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May 20, 2017 19:27
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What I'm saying, Hundu, is that they want pulse rifles and GAME OVER MAN!!!!
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May 20, 2017 19:28
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CelticPredator posted:What I'm saying, Hundu, is that they want pulse rifles and GAME OVER MAN!!!! quote:People aren’t tired of franchise movies. That’s why Spider-Man: Homecoming will make enough money to actually turn Manhattan into a giant spider. But far too many franchises overstay their welcomes or are so obviously just going through the motions. There’s nothing sadder than watching a relationship falter because one side stopped trying, and the bond between movie juggernaut and its audience is the kind that needs constant tending to keep the romance alive.
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May 20, 2017 19:29
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emanresu tnuocca posted:David was Weyland's personal pet and the only one privy to the true purpose of the prometheus mission, he was also given a carte-blanche to do whatever it takes to get Weyland to "meet his makers", I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was just given backdoor access to every computer manufactured by Weyland industries. That makes sense as far as it goes. But surely David's not using his own security codes while Daniels and Tennessee are still awake to see/hear him do it?
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May 20, 2017 19:30
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Kurzon posted:What programmer would give an android rapey-murder instincts? That's not how high level AI works. You don't program AI with, rape, murder, cooking, knitting, etc. Just like how human babies aren't born with those tendencies. They are learned over time and external stimulus.
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May 20, 2017 19:39
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Huge Christian Pro Life website posted following article. This is 100% legit that they believe this I saw the devil when I was a child and I never forgot him.
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May 20, 2017 19:50
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Julio Cruz posted:That makes sense as far as it goes. But surely David's not using his own security codes while Daniels and Tennessee are still awake to see/hear him do it? Ya'll missed some discussion on this a few pages back. There's a theory floating around that David switched bodies, not just clothes which would suggest that Walters biometrics and 'data' are with David. Someone here mentioned that the wound Daniels inflicts on Davids lower jaw is not present when they get back to the Covenant suggesting even more so that they switched bodies.
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May 20, 2017 19:50
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:What should Christians do about Alien Covenant? I can get behind this pro Xeno/David stance. Let life flourish. Whenever you see a burster in any of the movies yell out hallelujah!
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May 20, 2017 19:53
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Shaocaholica posted:Ya'll missed some discussion on this a few pages back. There's a theory floating around that David switched bodies, not just clothes which would suggest that Walters biometrics and 'data' are with David. Someone here mentioned that the wound Daniels inflicts on Davids lower jaw is not present when they get back to the Covenant suggesting even more so that they switched bodies. Two things: 1. David ended the previous film as only a head. 2. You can tell the robot is bad because he has an upside down cross on his face.
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May 20, 2017 19:54
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This is the first Alien film to present a chestburst as a beautiful, if not absolutely adorable moment.
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May 20, 2017 19:55
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I guess this was pointed out but there was a bit of a role reversal with the faith vs reason debate that was also at the core of Prometheus, in Promotheus Elizabeth is "a woman of faith" (until a certain point, at least) and she was scorned by captain Vickers for acting irrationally, in this one Daniels is the cold rationalist who protests being led to a mission based on the captain faith.
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May 20, 2017 20:00
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CelticPredator posted:This is the first Alien film to present a chestburst as a beautiful, if not absolutely adorable moment. The part where he imprints on the Alien is like an anti-Arrival moment.
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May 20, 2017 20:01
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