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MrYenko posted:I've encountered multiple (mostly recent-construction) homes with GFCI-protected garage circuits that have gently caress-all for proper insulation, and trip constantly, even with really innocuous loads on them. My old townhouse garage circuit would trip (it had a dedicated breaker, a GFCI receptacle, and an outdoor receptacle in a weatherproof box by the front door, down-circuit of that,) with just the garage door opener plugged in and operating, because the electrician probably scraped the poo poo out of the cabling when he was pulling it, or some other problem. I was never able to figure it out, and just lived with it. Agreed; garages should have GFPE instead. Those can be set to whatever the AHJ says is reasonable. We were allowed to set sump pump circuits at 250mA, which is enough to kill you dead. The maximum is GFPE on industrial services, which can be set to trip at 1200A (for a 3000A breaker). The problem is that 10mA is the let-go limit, and people with weak hearts and lungs can die with as little as 20mA. So what do you raise the level to? The difference between 5mA and 10-15mA probably isn't worth another exception/section in the code book, another type of breaker/outlet, and another thing to be tested for in a slightly different way. So everything gets GFCI or AFCI.
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May 21, 2017 15:16
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oven guy again. I took the a panel off of the back of the oven and I do not immediately see anything wrong. https://imgur.com/a/TQxk9 My wife did point out this bit that looks like it is scorched? https://imgur.com/a/dgrS2 Otherwise, it all looks pretty dull to me?
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May 21, 2017 17:23
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Associate Christ
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other people posted:My wife did point out this bit that looks like it is scorched? That is scorched, which is incorrect. It should all be a uniform offwhiteish color. You need to lookup how to replace it, or let the appliance guy replace it. Sadly it's a rivet holding it in, hopefully that piece unclips.
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May 21, 2017 17:26
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:o so this piece is the socket for the oven light. http://imgur.com/a/fopju It was simple to remove and if I can find a replacement will be simple to put back in. Do you think it could explain the behaviour?
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May 21, 2017 18:01
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other people posted::o so this piece is the socket for the oven light. (I realize post shower) unless that discoloration is normal for a gas range. Might want to hit up google, but if those parts have sorta melted internally yes it could. It could also be entirely unrelated, or one of several problems. The joys of electricity. What is the make and model of your stove? It doesn't answer why they look like that in the first place, unless the light bulb socket was root cause. Taking the parts to an appliance repair place and gauging the look on their face should tell you if it's correct or not.
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May 21, 2017 18:16
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It is a Frigidaire FGF337ECC. The part looks to be # PS439060 which I can have shipped here for $35. I am going to try this instead of the handy man and see what comes of it. If it doesn't work then we can get a new oven :p.
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May 21, 2017 18:20
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other people posted:It is a Frigidaire FGF337ECC. The part looks to be # PS439060 which I can have shipped here for $35. I am going to try this instead of the handy man and see what comes of it. $35 for a friggin light bulb socket??? What a rip-off. Still, you have a hot to ground short, correct? Or was it hot to neutral?
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May 21, 2017 18:41
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Try just disconnecting the scorched part. Do you still trip the breaker when you plug in the appliance?
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May 21, 2017 18:50
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Guy Axlerod posted:Try just disconnecting the scorched part. Do you still trip the breaker when you plug in the appliance? ohhhh. I could just tape over the end of the wires for the socket and put it back together? i'll try this.. also, ebay had TWO sockets for less than the cost of one at other places but then i have to deal with weird ebay people and what would i do with two??? edit: it works! i taped over the loose wire ends just to be safe, but plugging it in now does *not* cause the breaker to flip and the oven clock turns on, etc. thank you all! So for now I can put the broke light socket back in so there isn't a gaping hole in the back of the oven and we can at least use the stove. I would guess that my generic black wire tape is not rated for the temps that running the oven (not the stove burners) might create, rite? So we'll continue to not use the oven for now... I still kinda want a new oven with a convection feature though 
other people fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 21, 2017 18:59
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other people posted:also, ebay had TWO sockets for less than the cost of one at other places but then i have to deal with weird ebay people and what would i do with two??? Welcome to the wild world of diy appliance repair, you end up buying parts from weird seemingly fly-by-night websites that amazingly deliver. If you ever need vacuum cleaner parts (I have a 30-year old Electrolux I'll keep running until the motor finally goes kaput) Hesco is great.
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May 21, 2017 19:07
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Buy the pair and sell the other for $1 as a service to your fellow man.
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May 21, 2017 19:07
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other people posted:ohhhh. I could just tape over the end of the wires for the socket and put it back together? Lowes usually has a small section of weird bulb holders. I'm not sure if any of them are rated for oven temperatures.... but porcelain should hold up fine?
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May 21, 2017 19:35
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angryrobots posted:Garage receptacles are supposed to be gfci protected, so I bet you have a load wired gfci somewhere that is tripped (but doesn't look like it), or is bad. So, I feel really dumb. The breaker is in a separate storage room in the garage. It never occurred to me to check for outlets in there. Sure enough, there was a GFCI outlet that was tripped behind a Christmas wreath. The problem is solved, and I can spend the rest of my day relaxing and making up a story to tell my wife about how hard I worked to fix it.
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May 21, 2017 20:20
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WashinMyGoat posted:...and I can spend the rest of my day relaxing and making up a story to tell my wife about how hard I worked to fix it. This is the most challenging part of most home repair projects, honestly.
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May 21, 2017 20:35
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other people posted:I would guess that my generic black wire tape is not rated for the temps that running the oven (not the stove burners) might create, rite? So we'll continue to not use the oven for now... just since this wasn't addressed by anyone else, you are correct, that tape will absolutely not survive that
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May 21, 2017 22:13
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Refresher question on circuit load. Say I want to get a device that's rated at a 20A load (let's ignore what it's actual draw is, this is just its nominal draw). It's my understanding that to safely use such a device, I'd need it to be on a receptacle / circuit that was rated for at least 25% more amps, so that the device wouldn't exceed 80% of the circuit's capacity. Is that correct? If so, what even is the next step up from a 20A receptacle? I'd expect you'd normally go to 220V power at that point.
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May 23, 2017 17:02
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Refresher question on circuit load. Say I want to get a device that's rated at a 20A load (let's ignore what it's actual draw is, this is just its nominal draw). It's my understanding that to safely use such a device, I'd need it to be on a receptacle / circuit that was rated for at least 25% more amps, so that the device wouldn't exceed 80% of the circuit's capacity. Is that correct? If so, what even is the next step up from a 20A receptacle? I'd expect you'd normally go to 220V power at that point. I mean they sell 30A breakers, which gets you to 24A continuous load @ 110V. I bet there is a way to hardwire it into a dedicated single use circuit that lets you get away with cheaper components that the actual electricians would know about. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-30-Amp-Single-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM130CP/202353319
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May 23, 2017 17:25
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H110Hawk posted:I mean they sell 30A breakers, which gets you to 24A continuous load @ 110V. I bet there is a way to hardwire it into a dedicated single use circuit that lets you get away with cheaper components that the actual electricians would know about. Yeah, breakers aren't really the problem, it's the receptacle. I'd rather not hardwire the dust collector, because I want to be able to wheel it close to whatever tool needs it at the time I need it, instead of having the collector be stationary and running hoses all over the place. Is my understanding correct, though, that a device listed as drawing 20A can't be put on a 20A circuit/receptacle?
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May 23, 2017 17:31
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IIRC, the dust collector probably doesn't qualify as a continuous load, so you can use 100% of the circuit rating (at least if it's alone on the circuit). Ianae, so double check behind me and read the definition of continuous and non-continuous loads and what your equipment will be doing and for how long.
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May 23, 2017 17:31
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Refresher question on circuit load. Say I want to get a device that's rated at a 20A load (let's ignore what it's actual draw is, this is just its nominal draw). It's my understanding that to safely use such a device, I'd need it to be on a receptacle / circuit that was rated for at least 25% more amps, so that the device wouldn't exceed 80% of the circuit's capacity. Is that correct? If so, what even is the next step up from a 20A receptacle? I'd expect you'd normally go to 220V power at that point. Sticking with 120VAC, the bigger straight blade plug/receptacle combinations will be NEMA 5-30 and 5-50 rated for 30 and 50 amps respectively. Twist lock connectors are available at 15, 20, 30, 50, and 60A ratings but at that point you'd be silly not to step up to 240v.
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May 23, 2017 21:10
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shame on an IGA posted:Sticking with 120VAC, the bigger straight blade plug/receptacle combinations will be NEMA 5-30 and 5-50 rated for 30 and 50 amps respectively. Twist lock connectors are available at 15, 20, 30, 50, and 60A ratings but at that point you'd be silly not to step up to 240v. Okay, good to know. I suspect I'm just worrying over nothing and when the thing arrives I'll find that it has a standard 15A or 20A plug, but if it doesn't, then I'll know what to do about it. Even if it is 15A-compatible, I'll probably still want to run a new circuit, because all of my overhead receptacles are currently on the same circuit, and they're by far the most convenient for running random tools. I suspect I shouldn't try to run the dust collector and, say, my miter saw at the same time on the same circuit.
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May 23, 2017 21:19
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Okay, good to know. Just make sure that you get the dust collector up to speed, then the miter up to speed, then apply load nice and easy like. You can gently get breakers past their rating so long as you ease into it. There are all kinds of innuendos to make in conjunction with this description.
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May 23, 2017 21:29
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i'm having a ductless mini-split air conditioner installed soon. well i think am, the dude's coming today to have a look at the place. no matter what i do the electrician's gonna have to pull a new circuit for it. there are 110 and 220V versions, the 110 is apparently totally functional and suitable for my space but slightly less efficient. the price is comparable, but the 220V one looks like a better unit. it's not actually meaningfully more expensive to have the electrician pull one than the other, is it, barring unforeseen fuckups?
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May 23, 2017 21:37
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SoundMonkey posted:i'm having a ductless mini-split air conditioner installed soon. well i think am, the dude's coming today to have a look at the place. Marginally more materials costs should be all you incur, get the 220V one.
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May 23, 2017 22:00
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SoundMonkey posted:i'm having a ductless mini-split air conditioner installed soon. well i think am, the dude's coming today to have a look at the place. It's possibly cheaper to go 220. I assume a large (maybe average?)mini-split needs more than 20amps @ 120V and would necessitate a #10/2wg run instead of #12. I've never installed one 120V, so check the unit max/fl amps. The breaker isn't much more expensive and the disconnect, whip, and install would all be the same price.
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May 24, 2017 03:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Refresher question on circuit load. Say I want to get a device that's rated at a 20A load (let's ignore what it's actual draw is, this is just its nominal draw). It's my understanding that to safely use such a device, I'd need it to be on a receptacle / circuit that was rated for at least 25% more amps, so that the device wouldn't exceed 80% of the circuit's capacity. Is that correct? If so, what even is the next step up from a 20A receptacle? I'd expect you'd normally go to 220V power at that point. Looked at the product page and it's hard to tell what they mean by 20amp. Are the full load amps 20.0? What's the service factor? Does the unit need a 20a plug? and etc. I hate when product page are vague like that. Looking at the instructions, it seems like it comes with a cord and plug pre-installed. Basically use whatever properly wired outlet fits the cord and hope they've made a good product. An efficient 2hp motor will use close to 20 amps, so I'd def plan on having it on by itself. If it's a unit that you'd wire yourself and you had the option, I'd rather wire it 240V than run bigger wire and use 30a twistlocks. oh and glynnenstein is correct on it not being a continuous load Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 03:25 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 03:18
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Are mini-splits worth considering if I'm in an area where natural gas is cheap? Do mini-splits that do gas heat and electric a/c exist?
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May 24, 2017 03:23
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minivanmegafun posted:Are mini-splits worth considering if I'm in an area where natural gas is cheap? Do mini-splits that do gas heat and electric a/c exist? No duel units that I know of. They're fine for area cooling, but the heat pump would probably be a waste if you're installed for cheap gas. Just spitballing, but I assume heat pump vs cheap gas probably doesn't justify the install without decent local electric company rebates. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 03:36 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 03:27
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i figure i'll use mine for heat in the cool-but-not-cold months, but otherwise use the gas furnace
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May 24, 2017 08:09
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At my work all the face plate screws are oriented vertically. Is this a thing or just OCD?
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May 24, 2017 20:57
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knowonecanknow posted:At my work all the face plate screws are oriented vertically. Is this a thing or just OCD? You mean, like, the slots in the screw heads are all aligned? That's gotta be OCD.
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May 24, 2017 21:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You mean, like, the slots in the screw heads are all aligned? That's gotta be OCD. Yeah that, I figured OCD but wasn't sure.
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May 24, 2017 21:20
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Besides, everyone knows they're better with the slot horizontal.
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May 24, 2017 21:29
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This reminds me: Ground Up or Ground Down? Apparently people have "opinions" about this.
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May 24, 2017 21:33
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I believe the intended design is ground up, such that if something fell across a partially-inserted plug, it would hit the ground first. That being said, ground down is obviously the residential de facto standard, at least as far as a 5-15 goes.
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May 24, 2017 21:35
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Depends on if you want a direct short between hot and neutral or a 50/50 chance of a hot or neutral to ground short for the one time in your life that a plug is loose enough for a knife to slip in behind the plug yet still far enough in to make contact. . . I have never seen neutral on top outside of a hospital so I would go with ground down. Aligning the screw heads is just straight up OCD and a resentment for properly tightened fasteners.
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May 24, 2017 21:37
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which part is ocd, putting them in like that or noticing they are in like that?
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May 24, 2017 21:38
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other people posted:which part is ocd, putting them in like that or noticing they are in like that? Yes.
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May 24, 2017 21:40
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Ground down. Easier to line up the bent prongs on some old tool.
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May 24, 2017 23:03
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knowonecanknow posted:At my work all the face plate screws are oriented vertically. Is this a thing or just OCD? That's a sign of a craftsman taking pride in their work. Someone went through and deliberately made sure that the screws were appropriately tight, and aligned. Probably also made sure the switch plate was plumb (or at least square with the nearest "vertical" edge). Hubis posted:This reminds me: Ground Up or Ground Down? Apparently people have "opinions" about this. Hubis posted:This reminds me: Ground Up or Ground Down? Apparently people have "opinions" about this. 1) Follow what the spec says. If the spec says ground up, do that. If it says ground down, do that. 2) Failing that: Ground down in residential (or match everything else in the room) and ground up in commercial. 3) Failing that: Do it all exactly the same. That way, when the customer says 'hey this outlet is upside down' you can say 'every outlet in the building is like that.' Any reasons why one way is "better" is just legend -- flooding, things falling across prongs, ants, how Westinghouse was left-handed so that prong goes there, etc.
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May 24, 2017 23:29
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