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Robo Reagan posted:Are they going to do anything in Stormblood to make leveling alt classes less of a garbage fire? Just buy a level boost 
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May 23, 2017 12:49
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Leveling alts seems fine as is though? You run through the repeatable content (dungeons, POTD) and with daily bonuses you average to about a level per day if you play casually. What is the problem exactly?
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May 23, 2017 12:53
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jyrque posted:Leveling alts seems fine as is though? You run through the repeatable content (dungeons, POTD) and with daily bonuses you average to about a level per day if you play casually. What is the problem exactly? I want to play an alt at cap without waiting 60 days for dailies or grinding PotD.
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May 23, 2017 13:12
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Yeah I would argue that the speed of leveling alts is not remotely slow enough to justify calling it a "garbage fire". Between level 20 and 35 it will be a bit slow(however Ptod nowadays may help this, I capped all classes before it came out so can't say), but with how fast 50-60 is nowadays where you can casual play 45 min to 1 hour and get a level+ trough dailies/ldr/hunts alone i'd say it's not bad at all compared to how long alt leveling take in other popular MMOs.
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May 23, 2017 13:20
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Robo Reagan posted:I want to play an alt at cap without waiting 60 days for dailies or grinding PotD. Come Stormblood, you'll be able to buy a $25 item that boosts one alt job to 60.
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May 23, 2017 13:30
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strong bird posted:Losing 10% damage isn't worth the 'hassle' of not having to press a button be in cleric stance. If the new cleric stance is as described earlier in this thread I probably won't even bother taking it. You mean that thing that severely punished you for doing it wrong and wasn't all that interesting otherwise will gently caress off forever now that damage spells for Healers are doing the thing that they should have done in the first place? Good riddance. He even said in stream the numbers weren't final.
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May 23, 2017 13:31
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Arcanist is still really painful to level until you unlock SMN/SCH, and even then it's still not very fun until the 40s. Same with Gladiator/Paladin.
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May 23, 2017 13:32
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TheNabster posted:You mean that thing that severely punished you for doing it wrong and wasn't all that interesting otherwise will gently caress off forever now that damage spells for Healers are doing the thing that they should have done in the first place? Yes, there was a game mechanic that punished bad players and rewarded good players, and that was good.
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May 23, 2017 13:43
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orcane posted:Even if the intent is that healers add significant DPS numbers, you will not get that through to people who grew up with MMOs in which this was not the case or those who flock to healing precisely because it's not DPS. Nor to people of the "you're not paying my subscription" variety, of course. I think they've literally said that savage is tuned for healers not DPS'ing. Edit: This doesn't mean that I agree with and it would probably take quite a bit more gear to down savage this way and frankly I'd dump a savage static without DPS'ing healers real quick. Dessel fucked around with this message at 13:50 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 13:45
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mistaya posted:I hope it will make "honest" healers feel more inclined to add some DPS spells to the fight because there's no longer any danger or risk in doing so. It also makes it a lot easier to weave gcd-heals, like tossing a regen in between stones to take care of light damage while continuing to DPS. The joke is that it absolutely won't. The vast majority of Honest Healers didn't heal because they were lazy and incompetent, not because they were scared. I rescind my earlier comments about being ok with the change since managing cleric stance uptime for maximized DPS is a total wash if it's all of 5% damage. This is garbage and healing is going to be way less fun for me in Stormblood. It will lose all sense of accomplishment. Well, I'd been playing a lot of BLm lately anyways, guess it's time to make that move permanent... Or maybe PLD since being able to block magic damage is amazing and I always did love shelltron.
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May 23, 2017 13:52
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I figured the Cleric Stance change would be universally held as a good thing, but here we are, lol. Cleric was dumb and bad if only because of the dozens of times I've hit the drat button to get out of it, only for it to not trigger and it taking 2-3 spells before I figure it out.
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May 23, 2017 14:04
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Cat Army
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Ouhei posted:I figured the Cleric Stance change would be universally held as a good thing, but here we are, lol. I'm pretty careful not to hit it during GCD, too. So I love the new change -- I just hope they'll make the DPS boost higher, or update the healer damage spells to compensate.
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May 23, 2017 14:11
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WhiteHowler posted:Yeah. I don't mind the current Cleric Stance in theory, but in practice I'll often hit the button and get 2-3 heals off before I realize that my healing potency is awful because the stance change didn't actually take. Is this a lag thing? I just hit the CS button halfway through my last damage cast and have been good 99% of the time over the last two years. WhiteHowler posted:So I love the new change -- I just hope they'll make the DPS boost higher, or update the healer damage spells to compensate. They definitely won't do this.
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May 23, 2017 14:20
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I tend to focus on healing only (will throw a couple dots on bosses) mainly because I play on PS4 and switching targets can be a fiddly experience. Also switching stances on the controller seems super fiddly and I've had situations where despite pressing the button my cleric stance didn't turn off or it turned off and then back on again and now I'm on gcd.
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May 23, 2017 14:24
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There should be a way to queue as solo healer for 8 man content tbh. You can totally get away with being a honest healer like that.
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May 23, 2017 14:25
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One problem I've encountered is getting yelled at by tanks and DPS for doing anything other than healing.
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May 23, 2017 14:27
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Obligatum VII posted:The joke is that it absolutely won't. The vast majority of Honest Healers didn't heal because they were lazy and incompetent, not because they were scared. You are looking at this the wrong way. Yeah the honest healers are going to always be a waste of a party slot but there is a slew of mediocre healers for whom this will straight up just yield better results. They will be better at healing and dps if for no other reason than a source of hesitation is removed and they will be drastically less likely to be caught with their pants down. I certainly don't blame you for not being happy with the change on a personal level, I enjoyed the added layer of challenge myself as well.
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May 23, 2017 14:27
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Failboattootoot posted:You are looking at this the wrong way. Yeah the honest healers are going to always be a waste of a party slot but there is a slew of mediocre healers for whom this will straight up just yield better results. They will be better at healing and dps if for no other reason than a source of hesitation is removed and they will be drastically less likely to be caught with their pants down. you're disgustingly optimistic and/or naive, honest healers are honest because they want to afk, toss a regen, and watch netflix instead of actually playing the game
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May 23, 2017 14:30
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Azubah posted:One problem I've encountered is getting yelled at by tanks and DPS for doing anything other than healing. This is the sole reason why we need dps meters. You *need* to be abler to point out to these people that without you there, the dungeon would take literally longer than the timeout and fail 
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May 23, 2017 14:36
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TooManyUzukis posted:Is this a lag thing? I just hit the CS button halfway through my last damage cast and have been good 99% of the time over the last two years. It can be. Turning Cleric Stance off queues up just like all other abilities, which can be weird. You can hit the button and nothing happens - because it was still in the final 0.25 seconds of cooldown. But then suddenly Cleric Stance is dropped because the cooldown is up. Combine that with lag and it can feel very wonky. (It also queues if you're in animation lock or other instances where an oGCD would queue, which again, can be very weird if you're not expecting it to.) This can be very annoying when you know it queues, and attempt to queue up dropping it immediately followed by a heal, and manage to hit it too soon to queue, so instead you cast a heal in Cleric Stance. It's even more annoying when you think it didn't queue and hit the button again, only to have it drop while you're hitting the button again due to queuing, so you're unexpectedly suddenly back in Cleric Stance.
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May 23, 2017 14:40
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I think the change is certainly going to help some healers dps more. I found the stance dance manageable on low level dungeons but then I did a Stone Vigil where the tank could just get melted if I looked away at the wrong time. Even though there were still opportunities to dps, I found myself not wanting to risk it with how unpredictable the tank's hp felt.
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May 23, 2017 14:43
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Xenoveritas posted:It can be. Turning Cleric Stance off queues up just like all other abilities, which can be weird. You can hit the button and nothing happens - because it was still in the final 0.25 seconds of cooldown. But then suddenly Cleric Stance is dropped because the cooldown is up. Combine that with lag and it can feel very wonky. (It also queues if you're in animation lock or other instances where an oGCD would queue, which again, can be very weird if you're not expecting it to.) You ever talk to Fister about that coil run, by the way?
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May 23, 2017 14:43
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jyrque posted:Leveling alts seems fine as is though? You run through the repeatable content (dungeons, POTD) and with daily bonuses you average to about a level per day if you play casually. What is the problem exactly? If they boost the alts armory bonus further then it'll be fine. I find leveling in FFXIV way easier than in WoW, not really hitting a tough wall to overcome. The process is pretty fluid. In other MMOs it always feels like I'm hitting a brick wall at certain levels that make it really hard to progress with alts. Knowing that its one single character sharing all your stuff also helps, because it means you are more likely to keep doing it over an alt that you might just drop at any point.
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May 23, 2017 14:51
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Office Surprise Store posted:you're disgustingly optimistic and/or naive, honest healers are honest because they want to afk, toss a regen, and watch netflix instead of actually playing the game I literally, in that post you quoted, said honest healers would always be worthless. I am not talking about honest healers. There is a huge gulf of people who lie in the gap between worthless honest healers and healer dps gods and this change will be a direct benefit to those people. Hell, on a personal level this will theoretically be a huge boon to me. I'm an ok healer, I never really had a problem with switching in and out of cleric stance. But I'm also a career melee dps who only really heals some low end content like once every couple of months. So if I end up with a tank doing big pulls I don't really have a good foundation of experience to really know how risky I can be in those situations so I play much more conservatively than I should. While I might not have the experience to be able to gauge how much healing I'll need to do 4 seconds into the future, I can absolutely do it on a gcd by gcd basis. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 15:02 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 14:51
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The only honest healers I've really encountered have been part of tank/healer pairs where the tank is literally telling them to focus on healing, so it's definitely a thing, usually in a really patronizing "Don't worry your pretty little head about DPS, just heal me, sweetie" way. My kingdom for 'gag me' emote.
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May 23, 2017 14:54
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unseenlibrarian posted:My kingdom for 'gag me' emote. Seems like something balmung would abuse
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May 23, 2017 14:57
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Failboattootoot posted:I literally, in that post you quoted, said honest healers would always be worthless. I am not talking about honest healers. There is a huge gulf of people who lie in the gap between worthless honest healers and healer dps gods and this change will be a direct benefit to those people. Looks like he meant to quote the post you quoted? Crumpet fucked around with this message at 15:27 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 15:06
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Cleric change is cool and will probably make me give healers another look. Scholar still looks as boring as ever, but at least now I won't have to worry about toggling a stance while I drop holy bombs all over a pack of enemies.Robo Reagan posted:I want to play an alt at cap without waiting 60 days for dailies or grinding PotD. The "about a level a day casually playing" thing only really applies to 50-60. Before that you can get several levels a day without even really trying.
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May 23, 2017 15:20
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Xenoveritas posted:It can be. Turning Cleric Stance off queues up just like all other abilities, which can be weird. You can hit the button and nothing happens - because it was still in the final 0.25 seconds of cooldown. But then suddenly Cleric Stance is dropped because the cooldown is up. Combine that with lag and it can feel very wonky. (It also queues if you're in animation lock or other instances where an oGCD would queue, which again, can be very weird if you're not expecting it to.) Yeah, it's this poo poo that makes the change great to me. I'm a decent healer, and I try to dps when I can, but sometimes that toggle doesn't trigger properly and it's annoying. Most of the time it's just annoying, but sometimes people die from it and it just feels super dumb because it's just some arbitrary toggle. Unless you're literally trying to not actually play this game, "honest healing" is the most boring thing on the planet so eliminating a dumb barrier to getting healers to dps more just makes sense.
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May 23, 2017 15:24
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I'm honestly not sure what to play to the end of the initial SB story now. I've taken a different class through ARR and HW stories, so I'm considering changing it up again. I did WHM for all of ARR and then switched to PLD for HW. I kind of want to go BRD for SB, but I'll have to see how it plays. The only other DPS job I've put any significant time into is MCH and that was mostly for aesthetic reasons. I don't really like the way Machinist plays, but that may change come SB as well.
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May 23, 2017 15:42
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So the gear they've been showing off RDM and SAM in are their AF3 gear - has it been said if RDM and SAM are going to get AF1 & 2 gear?
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May 23, 2017 15:47
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Ouhei posted:Unless you're literally trying to not actually play this game, "honest healing" is the most boring thing on the planet so eliminating a dumb barrier to getting healers to dps more just makes sense. The main idea here is that, while Cleric Stance was causing some players to convert to "honest healing", it's a comparitively small amount next to the number of players who just don't want to DPS. Cleric Stance has nothing to do with 80% of honest healers you'll come across. SE could slap them across the face and tell them that their entire job is designed around throwing rocks at people between periods of healing, and the player would still say they know better.
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May 23, 2017 15:48
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Oxyclean posted:So the gear they've been showing off RDM and SAM in are their AF3 gear - has it been said if RDM and SAM are going to get AF1 & 2 gear? Going by the HW classes, it's very unlikely.
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May 23, 2017 15:52
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I don't like the Cleric Stance change, but I've written literal essays on that so I'm not going to get into it. It's not gonna touch the honest healing numbers though. Looking into the new Cleric Stance temp buff, it looks totally worthless. The utility spells are so much better than a 1.6% damage increase. Compare that to Swftcast, Protect, Esuna, Shroud, Rescue  , plus a couple that didn't have tooltips shown and translated.I'm hoping the new job abilities will keep me busy enough to fill the stance dance void. They look interesting enough, but it's hard to say with no details on them released. The pvp change looks nice too, but I really hope the combo consolidation doesn't make it to pve content.
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May 23, 2017 15:53
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Healers not DPS'ing is because they're scared the second they stop casting Cure, S-E are going to inject a new tankbuster into the enemy's skillset that will do Max HP minus 1 damage so they need to be maxed up at all times. Cleric Stance changing isn't going to suddenly change a players entire mindset about playing the game except honest healers tend to be worse healers(keeping me up) then ones who go full bore dps
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May 23, 2017 15:54
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Failboattootoot posted:I literally, in that post you quoted, said honest healers would always be worthless. I am not talking about honest healers. There is a huge gulf of people who lie in the gap between worthless honest healers and healer dps gods and this change will be a direct benefit to those people. you're on the money here. I even know a few people who want to try healing again now that they can dps without messing with the jankiness that is cleric stance. I've also done dungeons where healers have thrown out some damage but not much and not in cleric stance. This will only be a boost to them. Yes it sucks for the people who like to "be good" and the complexity in turning a skill on and off at the right times but the net gain will be better. Might even lead to more dps because you can cast a heal, cast a dps spell, cast a heal, cast a dps spell. Where you had to turn cleric on and off for that poo poo.
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May 23, 2017 16:01
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Holyshoot posted:Might even lead to more dps because you can cast a heal, cast a dps spell, cast a heal, cast a dps spell. Where you had to turn cleric on and off for that poo poo. Except that would still be less DPS than you can do now with WHM. You could cast Divine Seal, Medica II, Regen, then turn on Cleric's Stance and DPS fairly safely for quite a while.
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May 23, 2017 16:05
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Oh come on, sure clerics stance as it is punishes comically bad players, but it's not exactly an interesting level complexity beyond "do you need to spend the next GCD healing or can you do something else with it". That inconsistently-responsive piece of poo poo is welcome to get hosed because there's a thousand better ways to incorporate the exact same desicion into gameplay.
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May 23, 2017 16:09
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Hommando posted:Except that would still be less DPS than you can do now with WHM. You could cast Divine Seal, Medica II, Regen, then turn on Cleric's Stance and DPS fairly safely for quite a while. Hell you don't even need to medica II most of the time. When I'm WHMing in a dungeon I'll just regen the tank unless a big aoe is coming out or he's about to get whalloped. With benediction, asylum, tetragrammaton, and medica II WHMs have tons of downtime to DPS. The amount of actual healing that needs to be done outside of raids and extreme trials is trivial.
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May 23, 2017 16:10
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At a minimum, the cooldown for cleric stance needed to be flipped to the healing side so if you screw up, or get screwed by the problems others mentioned, you get stuck in healing mode rather than damage mode. I did just fine with it despite the finnickiness but I'm glad it's gone because it was a totally unnecessary source of problems. Serious question, does a similar mechanic exist for healers in other MMOs? I can't think or any off the top of my head.
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May 23, 2017 16:15
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