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GW posted:Alongside the core rules for the game, there are missions, full guidelines for the 3 ways to play (open, narrative and matched) and advanced rules to represent the myriad war zones of the far future, including all the rules you need to play games of Cities of Death, Planetstrike, Stronghold Assault and Death from the Skies. So, aside from the free core rules, you're essentially getting additional rules that you would have previously paid $60 per book for ($240 in total, plus your $60 BRB.) Goons posted:Waaaaaah!
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May 23, 2017 21:16
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Safety Factor posted:
I think Narrative will actually have a fairly sizable number of people playing it, points-lite will appeal to a lot of newer players, which is who the buy in complaints seem to be referring to anyway.
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May 23, 2017 21:16
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No one cares about Open and Narrative gaming except for the weirdos who were going to play that way regardless of GW's written approval. I legit think GW is huffing their own farts on that nonsense.
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Hixson posted:I'm right there with ya dude. Basic arithmetic is really, really hard 
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May 23, 2017 21:18
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berzerkmonkey posted:So, aside from the free core rules, you're essentially getting additional rules that you would have previously paid $60 per book for ($240 in total, plus your $60 BRB.) Except that the "free core rules" don't cover what is needed to play anything but a demo game really. If I don't give a crap about those other game modes, I'd still have to buy the $60 rulebook and $20 "codex" to be able to play "Matched Play". I have to say that this has killed a lot of enthusiasm I had for possibly coming back into 40k. I was already going to have to buy models since I sold off all my armies years ago, and have a very tight gaming budget, so $80 investment pre-models is frankly not going to happen for me. I don't really see any at either of my local gamestore playing anything but "Matched".
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May 23, 2017 21:21
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Hixson posted:I'm right there with ya dude. Basic arithmetic is really, really hard I don't want to spend 30 minutes putting together a list for a 60 minute game. I didn't like spending that much time having a conversation with my opponent and putting together a battle for AOS open play and I don't want to spend that much time min/maxing the amount of bonding knives and missile pods.
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May 23, 2017 21:21
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I kinda don't care about granular points.
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May 23, 2017 21:22
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Pawl posted:This isn't about points vs not points. This is about "my 5 models cost 100 power with whatever options I want" vs "my 5 models cost anywhere from 60 to 140 based on specific equipment choices". It should be pretty obvious that the former takes way less time to put together, even if it's not precisely balanced, which makes it great for pickup games. And then you have a game where one player took their "X power" models and min-maxed their loadout for every single model, and another player who didn't, and have a completely one-sided, unfun game. Seems like a grand time.
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May 23, 2017 21:26
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You and a friend can reach buy a Start Collecting Box, and immediately have all the mechanical information to put your models on a table and run them into each other. This will probably be effective for new people or children who play. I agree the messaging on this has been bad but I don't get why you guys are shocked at finding out the rules distribution is structured identically to AoS. This is effectively like a "Free to Start" MMO where you pay to unlock the "Real" content. That premium is still way cheaper now than it used to be for most Armies.
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May 23, 2017 21:26
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berzerkmonkey posted:So, aside from the free core rules, you're essentially getting additional rules that you would have previously paid $60 per book for ($240 in total, plus your $60 BRB.) This is a fair a point, although I wouldn't have spent the extra on any of those supplemental books to begin with. They did put this in the FAQ: GW posted:
So maybe there will be a cheaper option for the rulebook released at a later date. GW posted:Why should I trust you?
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May 23, 2017 21:26
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Zuul the Cat posted:So maybe there will be a cheaper option for the rulebook released at a later date. hell even old GW released smaller, cheaper versions of the 6th and 7th ed rulebooks
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May 23, 2017 21:28
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Khisanth Magus posted:And then you have a game where one player took their "X power" models and min-maxed their loadout for every single model, and another player who didn't, and have a completely one-sided, unfun game. Seems like a grand time. Power levels should be reasonably balanced enough that this won't be a problem. Different weapons are good against different targets so even if a player brings The Most Expensive weapons they won't necessarily have an advantage. I think that the Core Rulebook has everything in it but they will release a seperate smaller book for Matched Play rules. I believe they've said that a 40k GHB clone is in the works but I can't find that quote right now.
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May 23, 2017 21:30
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Are the ebooks cheaper than the physical books normally? Because there is likely still going to be ebooks for this stuff which is I guess another option.
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May 23, 2017 21:31
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General Olloth posted:Are the ebooks cheaper than the physical books normally? Because there is likely still going to be ebooks for this stuff which is I guess another option. Yeah by like $10-20.
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May 23, 2017 21:33
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Khisanth Magus posted:And then you have a game where one player took their "X power" models and min-maxed their loadout for every single model, and another player who didn't, and have a completely one-sided, unfun game. Seems like a grand time. The people who play narrative play together are probably not the people who are going to min-max their poo poo to the nth degree. I swear half the people who post in this thread have never played a real life game of anything, presumably because they're the kind of people who think "aha, we're playing in a way deliberately written for a relaxed evening's entertainment, better make this as unfun for my friend as possible!"
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May 23, 2017 21:36
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Corrode posted:I swear half the people who post in this thread have never played a real life game of anything, presumably because they're the kind of people who think "aha, we're playing in a way deliberately written for a relaxed evening's entertainment, better make this as unfun for my friend as possible!" I think we all know someone who is probably salivating at the thought of dominating children at this game, but the response is definitely overblown.
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May 23, 2017 21:41
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Corrode needs to experience PNW crew to fully understand
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May 23, 2017 21:43
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BULBASAUR posted:Corrode needs to experience PNW crew to fully understand A 1v1 game against Panascope is just what the doctor ordered! Loser gets Fulgrimed.
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May 23, 2017 21:44
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My idea of a relaxed evenings entertainment is actually making things as unfun for my opponent as possible. Check and mate 
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May 23, 2017 21:46
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I think we all know someone who is probably salivating at the thought of dominating children at this game, but the response is definitely overblown. Yeah I mean the flipside is the guy who came into my old shop and insisted on playing Spearhead against some kid before whipping out his 20-tank Guard army, but gently caress that guy and all he stands for. From memory he was the same guy who then tried to run foot vets against a real player, got shot off the board, and whined about how IG was too weak of an army in 5th l o l BULBASAUR posted:Corrode needs to experience PNW crew to fully understand Let's play 5th when I could still ruin people, unlike now where I don't even know the rules
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May 23, 2017 21:48
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The Sex Cannon posted:I think that's what the Index books are for. All of the armies will get stats and points for all current units. I'm not talking about those books, I'm asking about future releases and updates. Every army had a list at the beginning of 3rd edition, but that didn't prevent anything from going downhill. S.J. fucked around with this message at 22:00 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 21:49
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$160 for a bunch of cool new models, the new rule book (which includes rules for several expansions of play) seems pretty reasonable, especially in context of 40k. People who don't see the several hours of value in this starter set shouldn't play 40k, it will just drive them nuts and disappoint forever. It was dumb of GW to say the rules were free but really just relabel the vast majority of rules from "core" to "advanced" and army specific. While not defending the behavior this has been pretty much how GW has operated for as long as I have played, and if it really bothers you then you shouldn't choose 40k as your hobby, it will just drive you nuts and disappoint forever.
JesusIsTehCool fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 21:49
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I'm perfectly fine with using the free rules to dig out my old models and drink a lot of beer while playing Space Barbies with friends. I'll probably wait a little while to get the big book, to see if they come out with a cheaper option.
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May 23, 2017 21:49
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Corrode posted:Let's play 5th when I could still ruin people, unlike now where I don't even know the rules BULBASAUR doesn't know the rules either but that won't stop him from fighting tooth and nail over getting to snap shot ordinance with PotMS. And even then, it's not like you need to know the rules to cheat constantly.
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May 23, 2017 21:50
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I'll definitely be finding a marine player to swap half the starter with. I need doubles of those plague marines to chop up.
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May 23, 2017 21:56
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JesusIsTehCool posted:$160 for a bunch of cool new models, the new rule book (which includes rules for several expansions of play) seems pretty reasonable, especially in context of 40k. People who don't see the several hours of value in this starter set shouldn't play 40k, it will just drive them nuts and disappoint forever. It was dumb of GW to say the rules were free but really just relabel the vast majority of rules from "core" to "advanced" and army specific. While not defending the behavior this has been pretty much how GW has operated for as long as I have played, and if it really bothers you then you shouldn't choose 40k as your hobby, it will just drive you nuts and disappoint forever. $160 is a lot for a starter set though. I was expecting $130, which is more in line with the euro costs. If it's actually $160 USD, that's not amazing The book costs are cheaper than codexes though, so no complaints from me there.
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May 23, 2017 21:58
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JesusIsTehCool posted:$160 for a bunch of cool new models, the new rule book (which includes rules for several expansions of play) seems pretty reasonable, especially in context of 40k. People who don't see the several hours of value in this starter set shouldn't play 40k, it will just drive them nuts and disappoint forever. It was dumb of GW to say the rules were free but really just relabel the vast majority of rules from "core" to "advanced" and army specific. While not defending the behavior this has been pretty much how GW has operated for as long as I have played, and if it really bothers you then you shouldn't choose 40k as your hobby, it will just drive you nuts and disappoint forever. If I had any desire to play either faction it would be an awesome deal.
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May 23, 2017 21:59
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 That hero is loving huge lol
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May 23, 2017 22:03
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Oh wow, bigmars dwarf the regular marines in the same way they should dwarf guardsmen in the fluff.
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May 23, 2017 22:05
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Pawl posted:This isn't about points vs not points. This is about "my 5 models cost 100 power with whatever options I want" vs "my 5 models cost anywhere from 60 to 140 based on specific equipment choices". It should be pretty obvious that the former takes way less time to put together, even if it's not precisely balanced, which makes it great for pickup games. Aren't you the guy that's never played a game of 40k? List building isn't exactly difficult. If you have any specific questions about how 40k works I'm sure the lovely posters in this thread would be happy to help.
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May 23, 2017 22:05
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muggins posted:That hero is loving huge lol That's some right proper Terminator armour. I, actually, seriously, hope we get some actual rescaled Terminator armour in the future. I'd love some Cataphractii that just tower over Guardsmen.
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May 23, 2017 22:05
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I wonder if the omission of a cheap rulebook is a sign they won't be doing that anymore. Since, ya know, some of it is online for free
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May 23, 2017 22:06
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Hixson posted:Aren't you the guy that's never played a game of 40k? List building isn't exactly difficult. If you have any specific questions about how 40k works I'm sure the lovely posters in this thread would be happy to help. Also 30 minutes to build a list for a 60 minute game is pretty funny, that's like 1k points I could still write one of those from memory. 10 minutes tops with a book in hand.
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May 23, 2017 22:12
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BULBASAUR posted:I wonder if the omission of a cheap rulebook is a sign they won't be doing that anymore. Since, ya know, some of it is online for free Earlier this page someone quoted from GW that "you'll have several options on how you get your hands on the full rulebook," so I assume they'll have the mini or at least a softcover release at some point in the future.
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May 23, 2017 22:13
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Safety Factor posted:
Really confused by that as well. Feels like the whole thing is a waste of time for them?!
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May 23, 2017 22:13
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Corrode posted:Also 30 minutes to build a list for a 60 minute game is pretty funny, that's like 1k points I could still write one of those from memory. 10 minutes tops with a book in hand. Yeah, I've only been playing since 6th, and I can bang out a 1,000 point list in a couple minutes. If I'm really trying to be a dickhead, it might run me like 5-10, but that's trying as hard as possible. Edit: And, hell, it's not like list building programs don't exist. You can pretty much spend 90 seconds clicking checkboxes and be done.
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May 23, 2017 22:15
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Open takes no time to really write about, so I don't think that's too much of a waste of time. Power levels seems to be an experiment to see how the community likes them.
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May 23, 2017 22:17
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Games workshop lied Core rules died
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May 23, 2017 22:19
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Power Level is presumably for whoever the 40k equivalent of "kitchen table" players are. An intentionally looser metric where you and a friend can eyeball it and you don't have to get frustrated because your list is 60 points over and you don't want to decide where to trim or rearrange equipment.
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May 23, 2017 22:21
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Galaspar posted:I'll definitely be finding a marine player to swap half the starter with. I need doubles of those plague marines to chop up. I know I've posted several times, but I'd happily swap half with you.
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May 23, 2017 22:24
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TheChirurgeon posted:$160 is a lot for a starter set though. I was expecting $130, which is more in line with the euro costs. If it's actually $160 USD, that's not amazing Wasn't death masque $150 and it came with a mini rulebook? I am not saying it is amazing, but its still a pretty decent deal, especially since it appears to be 100% new models. I guess if you don't have any 40k friends to split the cost of it and split the models its less attractive. I just hope they don't sell out of them in 30 minutes like the did with the last few releases.
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May 23, 2017 22:27
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