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Unfortunately that historical fact gets turned into "Well actually, black people are equally responsible for slavery, therefore..." by racist shitheads.
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May 22, 2017 18:14
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SlothfulCobra posted:The one thing that I remember about Roots that I doubt is their depiction of how the actual enslavement happened. I thought the process was people being grabbed in wars between African nations and then sold onto boats, not just sailors hopping off a boat and throwing a net over anyone hanging around the beach. Am I wrong about that? Basically the merchants would trade guns to the more aggressive nations in return for slaves. So yeah, your instincts are right.
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May 22, 2017 18:14
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WW2 Data German 75mm projectiles are on the menu today. Which Skoda gun was dual-purpose, and what round is being examined? What guns could fire the smoke round seen today? How many hollow charge rounds are on display today? All that and more at the blog!
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May 22, 2017 20:46
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nothing to seehere posted:Looking at the wiki page, Somerset was also quite narrow in his judgement (even if publically it was taken as a ban on slavery in England). He only said that slaves couldn't be deported to the colonies without consent, and later ruled being enslaved didn't count as being "hired" for Poor Law relief. The essential point is that there's no explicit law in England and Wales seen as explicitly governing slavery and establishing it as a legal institution. The law is just more or less silent about it. The law of England and Wales was equipped to distinguish between different types of vassalage (who is a villein? what is the status of a lord who is also a vassal?) not between liber homo/voluntas and servus etc. It's certainly the case that, in smallish numbers, slaves set foot upon English soil without being emancipated in the 18th century and prior, but their cases were never really tested at law and they were a small number of people. In any event the Somersett case became symbolic, passing well beyond its original meaning very quickly. There were, additionally, a number of medieval bits and pieces issued by the church and by various kings of England outlawing or severely restricting slavery, but they were not really legally controlling in the 1800's, nor were they specific enough. I should add for trivia purposes that if you read, like I have, the book of foreign office correspondence with the United States in the 1850's and 1860's, you'll find that a very large proportion of the letters to the United States from the UK are letters demanding that British subjects, who have been enslaved by southern slavers opportunistically, be returned home, usually to Jamaica (the other 2/3rds of letters being things like passing along gifts for saving British sailors at sea and so on).
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May 22, 2017 20:52
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Hunt11 posted:Basically the merchants would trade guns to the more aggressive nations in return for slaves. So yeah, your instincts are right. Wasn't there still some 'catch our own' in times when the supply through normal means was low?
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May 22, 2017 20:58
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Delivery McGee posted:Yeah, they fixed all the design flaws and then got sloppy with powder handling between the wars. What makes this Jurens so uniquely qualified to discuss the wreck that his opinion (and, as far as I can tell, his opinion alone, as the others who studied the wreck do not seem to endorse them - can't be sure since I don't want to pay $50 for a copy of the report Wikipedia is citing as a source) is enough to make things certain enough for you to say this definitively?
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May 22, 2017 20:59
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Jobbo_Fett posted:WW2 Data Interesting to see how many different HEAT shells the Germans had. Also is there no info on shells for the KwK 42, or is that in another section?
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May 22, 2017 21:15
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Taerkar posted:Wasn't there still some 'catch our own' in times when the supply through normal means was low? Not in any big way. Supply tended not to be low because the profitability of selling slaves to white people caused the coastal kingdoms to fight a lot more wars than they had before, specifically to capture more slaves inland to sell.
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May 22, 2017 21:38
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Apparently before the European Slave Trade, said nations would just kill all the captives. Can't remember why, probably religion.
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May 22, 2017 22:16
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Hazzard posted:Apparently before the European Slave Trade, said nations would just kill all the captives. Can't remember why, probably religion. No? Not generally speaking. Slavery is p much omnipresent worldwide before this period, why waste the resources.
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May 22, 2017 22:54
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Hazzard posted:Apparently before the European Slave Trade, said nations would just kill all the captives. Can't remember why, probably religion. That sounds like something a slave trader (or owner, or someone else whose livelihood is tied up in slavery) would say to justify himself more than fact, IMO.
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May 22, 2017 23:09
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Ensign Expendable posted:Interesting to see how many different HEAT shells the Germans had. Also is there no info on shells for the KwK 42, or is that in another section? Honestly, could just be missing. I'm working off of a US Technical Manual that isn't as extensive as later research afaik.
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May 22, 2017 23:18
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Speaking of slavery, stealing this article from TFRE2M2 posted:Pretty interesting article if some of you havn't read it yet. We were talking a few pages back about why the system self perpetuates and the mentalities involved and this speaks directly to it. The case of the mother is really telling as she wasn't an enthusiastic owner, clearly recognized something was a bit hosed, but 100% relied on the arrangement to make her as she wanted to live it life possible.
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May 23, 2017 05:41
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I brought that up in another thread (I'm Filipino) and I've so far been really disgusted with my own countrymen putting up the whole "but it's cultural!" angle as deflection, or even "we need to keep doing it because it's often the only way for these people to earn a living!"
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May 23, 2017 05:53
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"Earn a living"
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May 23, 2017 06:07
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Taerkar posted:Wasn't there still some 'catch our own' in times when the supply through normal means was low? But the people in the slave-trading African states probably wouldn't have seen the captives as "their own". They were from different countries. feedmegin posted:No? Not generally speaking. Slavery is p much omnipresent worldwide before this period, why waste the resources. It's not like it's unheard for people to do things that were less than efficient for cultural or religious reasons. But a quick look at Wikipedia (yeah I know, take it with a grain of salt) led me to this page. It was a state ceremony only in Dahomey and the human sacrifices were introduced in 1730. The article suggests that the human sacrifices were a consequence of the slave trade's importance for that kingdom's economy. It would a stretch to say that was a common practice outside that kingdom.
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May 23, 2017 09:57
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its an idiotic twofer because they blame the africans that lost the war for their own enslavement and try to act that they were gifted with a better country after europeans turned any remaining west african countries into hosed up colonial hellholes
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May 23, 2017 10:05
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Disinterested posted:The essential point is that there's no explicit law in England and Wales seen as explicitly governing slavery and establishing it as a legal institution. The law is just more or less silent about it. The law of England and Wales was equipped to distinguish between different types of vassalage (who is a villein? what is the status of a lord who is also a vassal?) not between liber homo/voluntas and servus etc. It's certainly the case that, in smallish numbers, slaves set foot upon English soil without being emancipated in the 18th century and prior, but their cases were never really tested at law and they were a small number of people. In any event the Somersett case became symbolic, passing well beyond its original meaning very quickly. Very quickly - there were black people in court celebrating the ruling. The "small number of people" was 10-15,000, for anyone who didn't know.
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May 23, 2017 10:12
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Speaking of slaves, did the British and the French 'free' slaves in Africa to enroll them in the militairy like the Dutch did? With 'free' I mean being a free man after 10 years of service in a bloody conflict.
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May 23, 2017 10:55
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Molentik posted:Speaking of slaves, did the British and the French 'free' slaves in Africa to enroll them in the militairy like the Dutch did? No, but the British did make them stay on as 'apprentices' for 6-8 years after emancipation. They also found other ways of getting unfree labor in any case, it was just a touch more sophisticated(usually debt peonage).
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May 23, 2017 11:07
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I believe freedom with service was offered to American slaves during the American Revolutionary War, and a great many took them up on that. Not sure how well it worked out for them, but I think a large number of freedmen were resettled into Canada.
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May 23, 2017 15:38
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:I believe freedom with service was offered to American slaves during the American Revolutionary War, and a great many took them up on that. Not sure how well it worked out for them, but I think a large number of freedmen were resettled into Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Negroes for more details on that. Part of the treaty that established the USA stipulated that those slaves were now free (against American objections; the Founding Fathers wanted them returned to their owners, of course).
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May 23, 2017 16:04
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NOLA mayor Mitch Landrieu gave a great speech about the taking down of the Confederate monuments. It's an astonishing speech given the context of both the national political climate and the fact it was delivered in a southern city with close ties to the Confederacy. It's long but well worth the read.
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May 23, 2017 17:14
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I'm not sure if this is the right thread or not, but- I am not terrifically knowledgeable on the exact proceedings of Truman's two terms as POTUS, and I was wondering, besides a different handling of Korea, how Truman's presidency might have gone better. I was thinking of reading McCullough's book on Truman and start a CYOA of his Presidency on another forum soon.
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May 23, 2017 17:41
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Sorry to repost but it got lost in between the heated debate about the ethics of treating post successionist slavers: So, who here loves soldier slang? I just discovered a fantastic gem on Project Guntenberg! The 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE is the perfect guide to the less than stellar slang of the Napoleonic Wars. It also includes some stuff from prisoners, students and other civilians the military stuff of course being very easily to identify. I'll post the preface and a few examples below! quote:The merit of Captain Grose's Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue has been long and universally acknowledged. But its circulation was confined almost exclusively to the lower orders of society: he was not aware, at the time of its compilation, that our young men of fashion would at no very distant period be as distinguished for the vulgarity of their jargon as the inhabitants of Newgate; and he therefore conceived it superfluous to incorporate with his work the few examples of fashionable slang that might occur to his observation. Some examples! quote:ALL NATIONS. A composition of all the different spirits
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May 23, 2017 17:51
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PittTheElder posted:I believe freedom with service was offered to American slaves during the American Revolutionary War, and a great many took them up on that. Not sure how well it worked out for them, but I think a large number of freedmen were resettled into Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunmore%27s_Proclamation The principal effect was for huge numbers of slaves to try (largely unsuccessfully) to flee plantations northward, the simple military effects were comparatively minimal. As you say, they are resettled (in Nova Scotia), though there are thoughts and efforts toward African resettlement. Safety Biscuits posted:Very quickly - there were black people in court celebrating the ruling. The "small number of people" was 10-15,000, for anyone who didn't know. Not 10-15k slaves, 10-15k black people, mostly in London, a city of a million people - and out of about 3 million slaves transported by British slavers. Is the scale I'm working with when I say 'small', I don't intend to diminish the ruling's importance to those indivudals effected by it, but in the scale of British or world slavery it was quite a small scale change except insofar as it acted as an inspiration for later, more wholesale, reform. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 20:44
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SeanBeansShako posted:The 1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE is the perfect guide to the less than stellar slang of the Napoleonic Wars. It also includes some stuff from prisoners, students quote:BARGAIN. To sell a bargain; a species of wit, much in vogue about the latter end of the reign of Queen Anne, and frequently alluded to by Dean Swift, who says the maids of honour often amused themselves with it. It consisted in the seller naming his or her hinder parts, in answer to the question, What? which the buyer was artfully led to ask. As a specimen, take the following instance: A lady would come into a room full of company, apparently in a fright, crying out, It is white, and follows me! On any of the company asking, What? she sold him the bargain, by saying, Mine a-e. This poo poo is great.
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May 23, 2017 21:55
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It's great to see some of the phrases still kicking around today too in a weird way.
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May 23, 2017 22:06
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SeanBeansShako posted:It's great to see some of the phrases still kicking around today too in a weird way. quote:TO BOX THE JESUIT, AND GET COCK ROACHES. A sea term for masturbation; a crime, it is said, much practised by the reverend fathers of that society.
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May 23, 2017 22:21
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"Boxing the Jesuit" is now what I'm going to call it too.
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May 24, 2017 00:36
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Grouchio posted:I'm not sure if this is the right thread or not, but- Not knowing as much as I'd like to, I think the issue for Truman was that there was a natural backlash against the Democratic Party in general and a splintering of the New Deal coalition after they'd been in power for so long. Without FDR's personal power and charisma the Democrats didn't have a unifying beloved figurehead, and with the increasing drive of the Civil Rights movement the split between the Southern Democrats and the rest of the party was inevitable. And while he probably could have handled post-war relations with the Soviets better, the Red Scare and the backlash against the Soviet Union was also inevitable after the depth of Soviet spying in the US was revealed. So while he could have theoretically done better, I think it's also worth remembering that many of the events that defined his presidency were out of his hands.
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May 24, 2017 02:37
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Grouchio posted:I'm not sure if this is the right thread or not, but- You'll get a good breakdown of what Truman was up to in Halberstam's The Coldest Winter. If you're looking into the war in relation to his presidency, you should know more about the political maneuvers and the great reluctance to "lose" Korea like China had been "lost".
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May 24, 2017 04:43
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OwlFancier posted:"Boxing the Jesuit" is now what I'm going to call it too. It's a valid alternative to 'bashing the bishop', for sure!
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May 24, 2017 09:04
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zoux posted:NOLA mayor Mitch Landrieu gave a great speech about the taking down of the Confederate monuments. It's an astonishing speech given the context of both the national political climate and the fact it was delivered in a southern city with close ties to the Confederacy. It's long but well worth the read. This is a really great read and he summarizes the issue perfectly. Shame it'll fall on deaf ears in the usual crowd of defenders
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May 24, 2017 12:04
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SeanBeansShako posted:1811 DICTIONARY OF THE VULGAR TONGUE i love that dictionary and i must spam The cove was lagged for prigging a peter with several stretch of dobbin from a drag. STRETCH. A yard. The fellow was transported for stealing a trunk, containing several yards of ribband, from a waggon. DILDO. [From the Italian DILETTO, q. d. a woman's delight; or from our word DALLY, q. d. a thing to play withal.] Penis-succedaneus, called in Lombardy Passo Tempo. Bailey. DUTCH COMFORT. Thank God it is no worse. DUTCH CONCERT. Where every one plays or signs a different tune. DUTCH FEAST. Where the entertainer gets drunk before his guest. DUTCH RECKONING, or ALLE-MAL. A verbal or lump account, without particulars, as brought at spungiug or bawdy houses. FRENCH CREAM. Brandy; so called by the old tabbies and dowagers when drank in their tea. FRENCH DISEASE. The venereal disease, said to have been imported from France. French gout; the same. He suffered by a blow over the snout with a French human being-stick; i.e. he lost his nose by the pox. FRENCH LEAVE. To take French leave; to go off without taking leave of the company: a saying frequently applied to persons who have run away from their creditors. FRENCHIFIED. Infected with the venereal disease. The mort is Frenchified: the wench is infected. IRISH APRICOTS. Potatoes. It is a common joke against the Irish vessels, to say they are loaded with fruit and timber, that is, potatoes and broomsticks. IRISH ASSURANCE. A bold forward behaviour: as being dipt in the river Styx was formerly supposed to render persons invulnerable, so it is said that a dipping in the river Shannon totally annihilates bashfulness; whence arises the saying of an impudent Irishman, that he has been dipt in the Shannon. IRISH BEAUTY. A woman with two black eyes. IRISH EVIDENCE. A false witness. IRISH LEGS. Thick legs, jocularly styled the Irish arms. It is said of the Irish women, that they have a dispensation from the pope to wear the thick end of their legs downwards. IRISH TOYLES. Thieves who carry about pins, laces, and other pedlars wares, and under the pretence of offering their goods to sale, rob houses, or pilfer any thing they can lay hold of. of course there are more words about the irish, but those were the ones that started with 'irish' SPADO. A sword. SPANISH. SPANISH. The spanish; ready money. SPANISH COIN. Fair words and compliments. SPANISH human being. The sun. SPANISH GOUT. The pox. SPANISH PADLOCK. A kind of girdle contrived by jealous husbands of that nation, to secure the chastity of their wives. SPANISH, or KING OF SPAIN'S TRUMPETER. An rear end when braying. SPANISH WORM. A nail: so called by carpenters when they meet with one in a board they are sawing. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 13:12
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BANGING. Great; a fine banging boy.  BASKET-MAKING. The good old trade of basket-making; copulation, or making feet for children's stockings.
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May 24, 2017 17:10
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Banging still means that, if something's banging it's good.
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May 24, 2017 17:18
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Related to the thread title even: CAGG. To cagg; a military term used by the private soldiers, signifying a solemn vow or resolution not to get drunk for a certain time; or, as the term is, till their cagg is out: which vow is commonly observed with the strictest exactness. Ex. I have cagg'd myself for six months. Excuse me this time, and I will cagg myself for a year. This term is also used in the same sense among the common people of Scotland, where it is performed with divers ceremonies.
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May 24, 2017 17:21
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Speaking of military slang, I've always wondered if there was a story behind "this man's army".FastestGunAlive posted:This is a really great read and he summarizes the issue perfectly. Shame it'll fall on deaf ears in the usual crowd of defenders I don't know that I've ever seen a contemporary politician, especially a Southern one, directly call out the Lost Causers. It's kind of an esoteric movement for most Americans who don't think much about the legacy of the CSA. https://twitter.com/Miller_Center/status/867017272606380032 This is amazing. Also, do y'all agree with Ike? zoux fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 17:23
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SeanBeansShako posted:Sorry to repost but it got lost in between the heated debate about the ethics of treating post successionist slavers: On one hand this is funny on the other hand this makes me think of all those incredibly inaccurate "online slang dictionaries" you've seen everywhere since the 90s
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May 24, 2017 19:03
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