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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I was under the impression that CMANO was particularly brutal towards helicopters, and that was one of the reasons we avoided using them. That's entirely possible, The helicopters that we've seen so far didn't exactly make a huge impact (except Dos Santos' of course  ).It just seems like a missed opportunity to not try everything that CMANO has to offer. (Even if it means just leasing helicopters/botes/whatever for an op.) That's very meta-LPing of course. PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 16:30 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 16:26
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Yes, it would be nice if the enemy did something else other than keep lifting jets to be shot down by missiles they can't even see. Most of the Angolan planes were just marks on the radar, helpless before the Meteors. Also, I dunno what kind of high-end strikes do you have in mind where you leave AA in place.
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May 24, 2017 16:27
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1 Ivanov Attack 2 K&P Attack 3 Ivanov Support
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May 24, 2017 16:28
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Considering the strong boat lobby combined with the very fair point that boats are super expensive and very campaign specific, I would suggest they be contracted as needed. Like how we get assets such as Rohan, at the start of a campaign be given some choices on who to contract. Then we could have lots of potential play styles, like getting one aegis ship to serve as theater AA, or a mob of cheap pirates to go along with our crazier ideas. And of course, any mercenary boats we contract would still report to Admiral Grey Hunter and have to deal with us randomly renaming everything.
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May 24, 2017 16:31
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JcDent posted:Yes, it would be nice if the enemy did something else other than keep lifting jets to be shot down by missiles they can't even see. Most of the Angolan planes were just marks on the radar, helpless before the Meteors. Standoff on things at the edge of the umbrella or just not having to scour even Korean War era machine guns from the earth before hitting targets.
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May 24, 2017 16:36
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1: K&P Fighter 2:K&P CAS/Attack 3: Blfm attack I think having missions that force choices will create more fun that trying to limit specific assets
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May 24, 2017 16:42
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May 24, 2017 16:51
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It's sort of a tautology in CMANO: helicopters work fine in missions where helicopters work fine. You don't want to run them against air defenses but you can use them for all sorts of interesting stuff like coastal raiding, limited strikes, and of course CAS where things are undefended. In mixed scenarios the key is usually to manage their timing so that dangers have already been eliminated by other assets or to do openings with them before forces are marked hostile by either side. e: Plus naval. Helicopters work well doing certain naval tasks like dealing with very small boats, emplacements/offshore oil rigs and platforms, ASW, and recon. glynnenstein fucked around with this message at 16:59 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 16:57
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I guess helos would do OK in a GWoT/Operation Bomb Useless Dirt situation, it's just that CMANO isn't made for that.
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May 24, 2017 17:00
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JcDent posted:I guess helos would do OK in a GWoT/Operation Bomb Useless Dirt situation, it's just that CMANO isn't made for that. dunno, those helos would have pretty helpful during our last hitch where we blew up a hell of a lot of SAMless ground forces
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May 24, 2017 17:03
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The way I see it helos could be a fantastic money maker for us. Just about EVERY theater has stuff that needs VTOL transports of some kind.and having a fleet of 20 or so cheap helos to run supply/transport/insertion missions for customers could be a potential goldmine. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 17:39 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 17:20
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power crystals posted:Wait hold on, CMANO has the A-10 flying with 6x Mavericks which was never used in reality (and iirc 6x AGM-65K isn't even possible, I'm pretty sure those need the single rail due to their larger size) but we can't get dual rails for our Maverick Phantoms? It does? Link?
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May 24, 2017 17:22
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1) K&P Attack 2.) Ivanov Attack 3) K&P Fighter Down with the BOTE melek kol ha'olam!!! Z the IVth fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 17:40
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Dimitris posted:It does? Link? Look at the link in Yooper's procurement packages. Z the IVth posted:1) K&P Attack The boat is pretty unimpressive (and those Fishbeds are hilariously awful) but I want to at least see what kind of weirdness that gets us into. K&P's packages are just more of the same which is terribly boring even if stat-wise they're the best choice. I guess consider me firmly on Team Buy A Bunch Of Weird poo poo regardless of the exact brand of said poo poo.
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May 24, 2017 17:59
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power crystals posted:The boat is pretty unimpressive (and those Fishbeds are hilariously awful) but I want to at least see what kind of weirdness that gets us into. K&P's packages are just more of the same which is terribly boring even if stat-wise they're the best choice. I guess consider me firmly on Team Buy A Bunch Of Weird poo poo regardless of the exact brand of said poo poo. Ivanov attack for you, then.
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May 24, 2017 18:01
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power crystals posted:Look at the link in Yooper's procurement packages. I voted for K&P CAS because of the MPA and the F-16s but I'm seriously considering changing my main vote to the BFLM CAS package just because holy-gently caress-drones-and-MALDs.
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May 24, 2017 18:06
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Dance Officer posted:Ivanov attack for you, then. That was my third choice after BFLM attack (I want MALDs so bad) and Ivanov support (team boat deserves a chance). PenguinSalsa posted:I voted for K&P CAS because of the MPA and the F-16s but I'm seriously considering changing my main vote to the BFLM CAS package just because holy-gently caress-drones-and-MALDs. Join us 
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May 24, 2017 18:08
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power crystals posted:That was my third choice after BFLM attack (I want MALDs so bad) and Ivanov support (team boat deserves a chance). (Changing vote) PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 18:14
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power crystals posted:That was my third choice after BFLM attack (I want MALDs so bad) and Ivanov support (team boat deserves a chance). Ivanov support is a step back to the 70s era. Hinds got downed in big numbers in Afghanistan and Chechenya by MANPADS now 40 years old and very common, and the version on offer to us has no defensive measures installed. The Fishbed hasn't had its weapon loadout updated since the 70s and so is as effective as the SK60B's are. They are also missile magnets at this point. The Buyan is actually a decent missile corvette (yooper mislabeled it) but there's only one, it's not particularly useful and it will bite the dust when it comes under any sort of determined attack unless we divert precious CAP resources to protect it. I don't know anything about the Su-24 and An-12, but apparently they're OECM planes? Still, 4 OECM planes is much more than we need.
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May 24, 2017 18:50
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Ivanov Support K&P Attack Ivanov Fighter Always vote Bote! Failing that, whatever an Atlantic Baguette is, I want one.
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May 24, 2017 18:57
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Dance Officer posted:Ivanov support is a step back to the 70s era. Hinds got downed in big numbers in Afghanistan and Chechenya by MANPADS now 40 years old and very common, and the version on offer to us has no defensive measures installed. The Fishbed hasn't had its weapon loadout updated since the 70s and so is as effective as the SK60B's are. They are also missile magnets at this point. The Buyan is actually a decent missile corvette (yooper mislabeled it) but there's only one, it's not particularly useful and it will bite the dust when it comes under any sort of determined attack unless we divert precious CAP resources to protect it. I don't know anything about the Su-24 and An-12, but apparently they're OECM planes? Still, 4 OECM planes is much more than we need. USSR helicopter losses in afghanistan were actually relatively light. We're talking 74 hinds over the span of 9 years to all causes (with 333 helis of all types lost altogether and 118 fixed wing aircraft). Compare the nearly 8400 aircraft the US lost over Vietnam, the majority of which were helis and not counting the additional 2500 lost by the south Vietnamese. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 19:12 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 19:02
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orcbuster posted:USSR helicopter losses in afghanistan were actually relatively light. We're talking 74 hinds over the span of 9 years (with 333 helis of all types lost altogether and 118 fixed wing aircraft). Compare the nearly 8400 aircraft the US lost over Vietnam, the majority of which were helis and not counting the additional 2500 lost by the south Vietnamese. the big difference here is that in afghanistan the russians were fighting a bunch of poorly equipped yokels in a relatively small conflict and the US had to deal with a large, capable, well-equipped army.
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May 24, 2017 19:14
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Dance Officer posted:the big difference here is that in afghanistan the russians were fighting a bunch of poorly equipped yokels in a relatively small conflict and the US had to deal with a large, capable, well-equipped army. Vast majority of US aircraft losses were in South Vietnam fighting against the VC in what amounted to COIN duty and vast majority of losses were to good old fashioned AAA and small arms fire. SAMS were mostly a threat to the comparatively rare strikes against the north. USSR had it right by making their Hinds virtually immune to small arms fire. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 19:21 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 19:17
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Excluding those lost to small arms fire.
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May 24, 2017 19:23
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orcbuster posted:Vast majority of US aircraft losses were in South Vietnam fighting against the VC in what amounted to COIN duty and vast majority of losses were to good old fashioned AAA and small arms fire. SAMS were mostly a threat to the comparatively rare strikes against the north. USSR had it right by making their Hinds virtually immune to small arms fire. aye and the truth is still that a man with an igla still makes an area of 3nmi around inaccessible for a hind
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May 24, 2017 19:24
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Dance Officer posted:aye and the truth is still that a man with an igla still makes an area of 3nmi around inaccessible for a hind If that was the case then USSR losses would have been far higher. Truth is that MANPADS ain't all that even against helis, considering the countermeasures that were developed by both the USSR/Russia and the US like flares and infrared dazzlers. Considering the mindboggling number of CAS missions flown by both the US and Russia with apaches and Hinds in recent years compared to the very small number of losses in an enviroment where manpads are plentifull I'd say their threat is largely overstated.
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May 24, 2017 19:34
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power crystals posted:Look at the link in Yooper's procurement packages. Can't find a link with loadout, sorry! Can you share? thanks.
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May 24, 2017 19:38
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Dimitris posted:Can't find a link with loadout, sorry! Can you share? thanks. I think it's this one they're referring to. https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=3889  4 Hours to go!!!
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May 24, 2017 19:42
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BTW I'm not advocating that we get Attack helicopters. I'm actually firmly against them as I believe they have limited utility in the sort of missions we conduct. Weapon capable Helis can wait untill we get boats and ASW helis. Utility helis on the other hand would be sweet.
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May 24, 2017 19:46
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Thanks! I'll take it up with our DB gods. Last time i checked that, LAU-88s were retired because they had electrical problems in the triple-load setup and firing the inner Maverick scorched the flaps so it was allowed only as a wartime load. Maybe it's 6 Mavs spread over 6 pylons instead of 2 triples. I'll check.
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May 24, 2017 19:48
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Dimitris posted:Thanks! I'll take it up with our DB gods. A-10 only has 2 Maverick capable hardpoints. 
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May 24, 2017 19:51
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Oh yeah, sign me up as a pilot, callsign Aster. I'll fly anything as long as it's a early Cold War rustbucket deathtrap
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May 24, 2017 19:54
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1. Ivanov Support 2. Ivanov CAS 3. Ivanov Fighter Put me on the bote if we get it. Or whatever otherwise. Call sign Salty
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May 24, 2017 20:04
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I assume the option exists to model the LAU-88 option being there, even if not used today. I know DCS lets you use two of the three pylons, with the inner of each being left empty due to mentioned reasons. My "gently caress you, aerodynamics" loadout was 4 Maverick Ds and 4 CBU-105.
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May 24, 2017 20:04
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It seems Ivanov Attack and K&P Attack are well ahead. I think Ivanov has the edge in votes. Can we take out a loan for the bote? I mean, what's 10 million in interest, right? RA Rx fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 20:23
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Dandywalken posted:I assume the option exists to model the LAU-88 option being there, even if not used today. I know DCS lets you use two of the three pylons, with the inner of each being left empty due to mentioned reasons. My "gently caress you, gravity" loadout was about 20000lb overweight. Max fuel, max weapons. It would still just barely take off with a lot of care and every last inch of runway. I would not recommend it.
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May 24, 2017 20:23
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RA Rx posted:I'm pretty sure either Ivanov Attack or K&P Attack are well ahead. I think Ivanov has the edge in votes. Oh well, at least Ivanov Attack gives us carrier-capable fighters that we can use for our flagbote.
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May 24, 2017 20:26
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RA Rx posted:It seems Ivanov Attack and K&P Attack are well ahead. I think Ivanov has the edge in votes. I count 43-35 in K&P attacks favour.
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May 24, 2017 20:34
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I think K&P Attack is slightly ahead at the moment. If you want some sweet Fencer action, you know what you have to do.
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May 24, 2017 20:35
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orcbuster posted:I count 43-35 in K&P attacks favour. Does that include alternate votes?
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May 24, 2017 20:35
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