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Pissflaps posted:Did everyone stand up and clap? No they went to a homebase and cried it was closed.
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May 25, 2017 12:36
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Oberleutnant posted:People have been asking for a reading list for like over a year now but I don't feel qualified to do it personally. If there was a list though I would really strongly recommend the Malatesta book, and Losurdo's Liberalism. All 3 volumes of Capital should be on there, along with Grundrisse, as should "Reform or Revolution", Lenin's "Imperialism", and Emma Goldman's "Anarchism and Other Essays". Just for a start. Just do it communally, in true anarchist fashion. We've all put down some stuff in the last page or so. Any chance of getting it into the op, Guavanaut?
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May 25, 2017 12:36
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shrike82 posted:all in all, it's put a stake in corbyn's momentum. let's see if he's forced to step down next month. We'll see how it plays out. It seems difficult to ignore because it's not partisan Labour voices highlighting these stories, it's the very police that May is praising.
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May 25, 2017 12:40
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Tesseraction posted:No they went to a homebase and cried it was closed. I can understand how they felt.
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May 25, 2017 12:41
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Jeremy loving Vine on the radio yesterday playing the fair and balanced act to the hilt by wondering at length whether the typical Mancunian response of carrying on as normal while professing peace and love is really any more valid than reacting with hate and anger, and really isn't it perfectly normal to feel hate when something like this happens? Is anger really a bad emotion? Just asking questions! Gotta be accepting of everyone's views! Lovely little "if you're not angry it means you don't care" implication from the caller too. loving cunts the pair of them. Ugh. I don't like Radio 2 at the best of times, but it's on at work and I can't turn it off, and I'm terrible at shutting my ears.
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May 25, 2017 12:42
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LemonDrizzle posted:Quite the opposite, surely - if you have strong reason to suspect that there may be a bomb-making facility in an area (especially one manufacturing acetone peroxide, which has a bad tendency to detonate at a time of its own choosing), it seems like it'd be pretty irresponsible to just let people come and go as they please until you've either secured the facility or confirmed that the suspicion was groundless. On top of that if there's a likelihood they're going to end up shooting someone a few hundred metres seems like a reasonable exclusion boundary.
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May 25, 2017 12:46
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Like May was specifically warned about Manchester being vulnerable to terrorism an ignored it. http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-warned-by-manchester-police-that-cuts-risked-terror-attack-2017-5
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May 25, 2017 12:46
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The Effective Leftism thread has a bunch of useful book requests in it as well, would probably be a good idea to cross reference stuff from there.
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May 25, 2017 12:53
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Miftan posted:Just do it communally, in true anarchist fashion. We've all put down some stuff in the last page or so. Any chance of getting it into the op, Guavanaut?  I put a couple of others in there too. I know Zizek's popularity seems to ebb and flow between 'Elvis of Marxism' and 'big tosspot' but I liked his book on violence as it covered a lot of the subjective, objective, systemic violences and their differences, which come up in the thread a lot. Like the recent topic. Speaking of the fash, there was a BNP flyer just come in with the mail. Typical shite about banning the ritual  slaughter of animals and the burka, then claiming to be zero-tolerance on crime and anti-social behaviour before immediately crying about how more women are in jail for nonpayment of their TV license than any other crime. They could have at least put in a filler paragraph between "we will lock up more people" and "look at all these people being locked up".
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May 25, 2017 12:55
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Like May was specifically warned about Manchester being vulnerable to terrorism an ignored it.
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May 25, 2017 12:58
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Thanks Guavanaut. I think the ragged trousers philanthropist should be on there as well as baby's first socialist book.
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May 25, 2017 13:00
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jBrereton posted:Given that the guy was already known to the police etc. before these ones were sacked, Whatever. Known but considered not at risk. That could have changed if they had more proactive intelligence gathering. Especially given the recent solo trip to Germany.
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May 25, 2017 13:00
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Yeah for sure. (about Ragged Trousers)
communism bitch fucked around with this message at 13:07 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 13:02
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Not that I particularly like the idea of the rozzers getting more opportunities to accelerate the panopticon but I do prefer that to dead children.
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May 25, 2017 13:05
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Tesseraction posted:Known but considered not at risk. That could have changed if they had more proactive intelligence gathering. Especially given the recent solo trip to Germany. Great headline if you're bitter you lost your job, though.
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May 25, 2017 13:05
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Guavanaut posted:crying about how more women are in jail for nonpayment of their TV license than any other crime. Haha what. I don't think people go to jail over debts in general, much less not paying a TV license
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May 25, 2017 13:07
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Miftan posted:Thanks Guavanaut. I think the ragged trousers philanthropist should be on there as well as baby's first socialist book.
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May 25, 2017 13:07
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jBrereton posted:Given he was informed on already multiple times and the police sat on their hands I doubt it. True. Besides a good opportunity to poo poo on May either way.
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May 25, 2017 13:07
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Tesseraction posted:Not that I particularly like the idea of the rozzers getting more opportunities to accelerate the panopticon but I do prefer that to dead children.
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May 25, 2017 13:08
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jBrereton posted:Given that the guy was already known to the police etc. before these ones were sacked, Whatever. But the police are blaming resource cuts in their analysts and risk assessment departments, which definitely happened, as hampering their ability to justifiably and legally make arrests. Which is literally what happened. You can't reasonably advocate that they should just barge in on no evidence because someone said the brown person was definitely a jihadist. They have to keep in contact with the concerned friends and family to understand what the threat is, when it could occur, when they can legally begin collecting evidence for an arrest. This takes huge resource investment at a national level, and these aren't people you can replace with either military personel or front line riot squads. A good source I read to help understand how and why "slip through the cracks" events happen was an officer working on shutting down paedophile rings in the 80s before having the resources needed to justify arrest reallocated in a way he thought was a deliberate corrupt action to allow the suspects to disappear to the netherlands (which was what happened). If the thread have the original/knows what I mean I'd appreciate that, I haven't got the articles saved. ACAB but it's not reasonable to blame the cops when their ability to do this was completely removed from them.
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May 25, 2017 13:08
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Guavanaut posted:Speaking of the fash, there was a BNP flyer just come in with the mail. Typical shite about banning the ritual Sure that wasn't just MRA dogwhistling? They probably just want to lock more women up
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May 25, 2017 13:10
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Guavanaut posted:Added trousers. Which one's the second one, Conquest of Bread and the original Communist Manifesto are both easy reads. I'd say ComMan. It's an easy read, and is obviously a pretty central tenet.
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May 25, 2017 13:10
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Lobstertainment posted:While were on this subject can you beauties recommend anymore must reads please? I've really gotten into reading-things-actually-know-poo poo recently and could always use more. Shock Doctrine by Klein. Simple and good and avoids her wishy washyness. Anything by this dude called V I Lenin. Whilst specifically socialist I would recommend 'jihad vs mcworld' by Barber. Dude nailed it. Also a good read '10 days that shook the world". haakman fucked around with this message at 13:18 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 13:10
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Some of my favourite books are particularly specific, so I don't know how useful they would be to people just getting interested in leftist ideas, but "Open Veins of Latin America", "The Robin Hood Guerillas" (written by a wanker, but interesting), "With the Peasants of Aragon","Ready for Revolution", "We, the Anarchists" (the last two about the CNT and FAI, respectively), and Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" are all really good. Almost any book on the Spanish Revolution is going to be useful for activists, because it demonstrates a model of grass-roots activism and community integration among the Spanish left that is really useful and practical even today. When the war broke out in Spain there were tens and hundreds of thousands of ordinary people ready to take up arms against the fash at a moment's notice, and it wasn't because they were all hardcore anarchists, but it was because the small number of dedicated anarchists, communists and socialists were well integrated into their local communities, had been doing good work for decades among normal people, and were trusted when the poo poo popped.
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May 25, 2017 13:13
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:I'd say ComMan. It's an easy read, and is obviously a pretty central tenet. Eh it's a strange read just to start looking at without help: the terminology isn't clear due to age and Marxist language and the demands are weird without proper historical context.
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May 25, 2017 13:13
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Guavanaut posted:Added trousers. Which one's the second one, Conquest of Bread and the original Communist Manifesto are both easy reads. Yeah, I would say they should both definitely be up there. The bread book especially, the manifesto is more a call to arms than an explanation. Oberleutnant posted:Some of my favourite books are particularly specific, so I don't know how useful they would be to people just getting interested in leftist ideas, but "Open Veins of Latin America", "The Robin Hood Guerillas" (written by a wanker, but interesting), "With the Peasants of Aragon","Ready for Revolution", "We, the Anarchists" (the last two about the CNT and FAI, respectively), and Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" are all really good. We, the anarchists is really good and I'm glad you recommended it a while back, but you're probably right in that those aren't good "starter" books. Orwell's stuff, maybe? Miftan fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 13:14
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jBrereton posted:The illusion of security is not worth losing your rights for, don't be a mug. This is dumb. 1. Intelligence is not security theatre. 2. It's "Those who would give up a essential liberty for a temporary security, deserves neither." which notes an essential liberty. What essential liberty was lost in him being noted a person of interest prior to the events?
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May 25, 2017 13:18
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^^^ I think jB is talking more about letting the government grant itself more authoritarian powers in the name of 'security', not about this one guy's personal libertyOberleutnant posted:Open Veins of Latin America Oh yeah, I started this and got distracted, I need to get on that Also important heads-up for everyone what with recent local GBS levels: we have  now
baka kaba fucked around with this message at 13:24 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 13:21
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Tesseraction posted:This is dumb. They have already been granted pretty obscene powers of surveillance, and received multiple tip offs from people about the bomber and didn't take them seriously. The problem is more likely incompetence or understaffing.
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May 25, 2017 13:24
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baka kaba posted:Oh yeah, I started this and got distracted, I need to get on that When you're done with that read The Wretched of the Earth. You'll probably feel like shooting yourself afterwards, it's great.
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May 25, 2017 13:24
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I think the Bread is better at setting out how a stateless society would operate, which is usually peoples first criticism of (Anarcho)Communism, "Human nature" etc. I'd add 'Are We Good Enough' also by Kropotkin for similar reasons.
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May 25, 2017 13:25
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Ah christ I'm a moron. Malatesta's At the Cafe is a series of hypothetical discussions between an Anarchist and various other people - bourg, a judge, cops etc. in which fundamental aspects of anarchy are explained.
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May 25, 2017 13:28
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baka kaba posted:Sure that wasn't just MRA dogwhistling? They probably just want to lock more women up I'm not sure why the emphasis on women other than that it's obviously not the same case for men in prison, maybe going for some soiled doves bullshit defense, and didn't want to outright say "we want our precious white women out of jail and Muslims in jail." Miftan posted:Yeah, I would say they should both definitely be up there. The bread book especially, the manifesto is more a call to arms than an explanation.
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May 25, 2017 13:30
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Oberleutnant posted:When you're done with that read The Wretched of the Earth. You'll probably feel like shooting yourself afterwards, it's great. Man I feel like we need a good times leftist reading list too. Is it the foreword of Open Veins that talks about leftism needing to be vibrant and positive so people want to be a part of it and create a powerful movement? What are the best books depicting leftist ownage
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May 25, 2017 13:31
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Spangly A posted:it's real funny that the right use virtue signalling as an insult when I can't think of a better example of using an atrocity to score points and look good, without ever wanting to do anything about the causes, than shite like this http://www.salon.com/2017/05/23/manchester-was-an-attack-on-girls/ quote:“Mom, did you hear what happened in Manchester?” she asked me Monday night. Of course I had. Of course her older sister already had as well. But I’d wanted to keep the news from my younger daughter, aged 13, as long as I could. I’d wanted to wait till there was more information about the attack. And I also wanted to keep her a little more innocent a little bit longer. I was wrong, though, because what she needed that evening was exactly what she got — an outpouring of bewildered, reassuring messages among friends as the news trickled in. Yeah its just the Right virtue signalling...
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May 25, 2017 13:31
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baka kaba posted:Man I feel like we need a good times leftist reading list too. Is it the foreword of Open Veins that talks about leftism needing to be vibrant and positive so people want to be a part of it and create a powerful movement? What are the best books depicting leftist ownage Is Beevor's "Stalingrad" too on-the-nose? 
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May 25, 2017 13:33
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People itt should read "Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek, a book prominently recommended by one of the best PMs of Britain had.
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May 25, 2017 13:34
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GaussianCopula posted:People itt should read "Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek, a book prominently recommended by one of the best PMs of Britain had. Agreed, it made me laugh so hard I think I weed a little.
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May 25, 2017 13:37
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GaussianCopula posted:People itt should read "Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek, a book prominently recommended by one of the best PMs of Britain had. Lol
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May 25, 2017 13:39
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Oberleutnant posted:Some of my favourite books are particularly specific, so I don't know how useful they would be to people just getting interested in leftist ideas, but "Open Veins of Latin America", "The Robin Hood Guerillas" (written by a wanker, but interesting), "With the Peasants of Aragon","Ready for Revolution", "We, the Anarchists" (the last two about the CNT and FAI, respectively), and Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" are all really good. Yeah, Homage to Catalonia was probably the book that first opened me up to anarchism, well that & Anthony Beevor's book The Battle For Spain. On that front, has anyone read British Volunteers in the Spanish Civil War by Richard Baxell? Is it any good? The blurb on Amazon does seem to suggest it downplays the Stalinist nature of the IBs I'd definitely second Conquest of Bread, I've only just finally gotten around to starting it, but the anarchist side of things does tend to get overlooked in favour of Marx & Lenin & Trotsky & that's a shame because there's a lot of worthwhile ideas on the libertarian left. Another couple of books I'd recommend, not so much as intro to this poo poo but a bit further on, there was a book on council communism and socialism in the trade union movement in Germany post-World War I and the development of workers councils called Wild Socialism by Martin Comack which I remember finding very interesting. On a Russian Revolution kick, there's a biography of Alexander Shlyapnikov by Barbara Allen just called Life of An Old Bolshevik which is really interesting perspective on someone who was high up in he Bolsheviks, was involved from early on, was a factory worker & dedicated trade unionist, ended up in exile before the war, did work to smuggle works into Russia through Scandinavia, worked in factories & with unions in other parts of Europe. After the revolution he was briefly Commissar of Labour, became Chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Caspian-Caucasian Front in the Civil War, all the while becoming a critic of the growing centralisation of power away from the workers the revolution was meant to benefit. He ended up leading an oppositional faction in the party, even after that was dissolved he was never really forgiven or trusted & eventually he was murdered in the purges. It's a good look at the life of a Bolshevik who wasn't just a middle class intellectual like Lenin or Trotsky. And finally, I always want to recommend Peter Marshall's Demanding The Impossible, which is a history of anarchism & the predecessors to anarchist thought. It's a really great book and my copy is dog-eared to hell. GaussianCopula posted:People itt should read "Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek, a book prominently recommended by one of the best PMs of Britain had. Toilet paper is both cheaper and more comfortable than that nonsense for their shared primary purpose. Toilet paper is also intellectually much more interesting. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:43 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 13:41
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