UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

This western policy is to blame thing is so NUS. Ten years ago I would have agreed, instantly, that it was true. Nowadays I'm a bit wary of that kind of rhetoric, because anyone who would bomb a concert for girls is clearly just an insane gently caress-up.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:24

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 23:26

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

jBrereton posted:

This western policy is to blame thing is so NUS. Ten years ago I would have agreed, instantly, that it was true. Nowadays I'm a bit wary of that kind of rhetoric, because anyone who would bomb a concert for girls is clearly just an insane gently caress-up.

Insane gently caress-ups don't just coalesce fully-formed out of the ether.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:29

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

How many times does it have to said that people with mental illnesses are in a vast majority of cases more of a danger to themselves than anyone else?

# ? May 26, 2017 10:31

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

How many weddings did the US bomb, again? Because if you're going to talk about "insane gently caress-ups"...

# ? May 26, 2017 10:34

Zalakwe: Jun 4, 2007; Likes Cake, Hates Hamsters

Oberleutnant posted:

Friday is starting well.

This is obviously amazing, that racist cannot be told to gently caress off enough.

Even better though is that I think it reflects a change in narrative. It started following Brexit but to me seems to be gaining momentum after the Manchester attacks. I don�t know what caused it but it no longer seems to be as socially acceptable to blame everything on foreigns. Genuinely think the racists and xenophobes are being marginalised again.

Wishful thinking? Reading too much of my own Facebook? Regardless there will be a ton of kicking and screaming before they go back in their box.

Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 10:39 on May 26, 2017

# ? May 26, 2017 10:35

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Cerebral Bore posted:

Insane gently caress-ups don't just coalesce fully-formed out of the ether.

Hard to say isn't it.

I mean we've always had terrorism in its modern form by some lot or other who felt sufficiently hacked off about the world since the invention of portable explosives.

That genie is not getting put back in the bottle, and I think the persistent nature of people blowing things up across many ideologies suggests that foreign policy might be a great smokescreen for abusers to pick failsons like the last guy up and say "hey bud join my crew, also check out this vid from syria etc. etc. aren't the crusaders bad and so on" but that it's basically led by Charles Manson style dickheads who are a type of person that will probably exist forever, just like their prey, because some people just are that way.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:39

Seaside Loafer: Feb 7, 2012; Waiting for a train, I needed a shit. You won't bee-lieve what happened next

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/868028943659524096

I really hope she ends up at the job center. If you look at her career she hasn't actually done much.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:40

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Seaside Loafer posted:

I really hope she ends up at the job center. If you look at her career she hasn't actually done much.

As a manager? She's certainly qualified in the empathy department.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:42

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

jBrereton posted:

Hard to say isn't it.

I mean we've always had terrorism in its modern form by some lot or other who felt sufficiently hacked off about the world since the invention of portable explosives.

That genie is not getting put back in the bottle, and I think the persistent nature of people blowing things up across many ideologies suggests that foreign policy might be a great smokescreen for abusers to pick failsons like the last guy up and say "hey bud join my crew, also check out this vid from syria etc. etc. aren't the crusaders bad and so on" but that it's basically led by Charles Manson style dickheads who are a type of person that will probably exist forever, just like their prey, because some people just are that way.

they'll always exist but they don't always have powerful groups residing in destabilized regions

# ? May 26, 2017 10:48

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

jBrereton posted:

Hard to say isn't it.

I mean we've always had terrorism in its modern form by some lot or other who felt sufficiently hacked off about the world since the invention of portable explosives.

That genie is not getting put back in the bottle, and I think the persistent nature of people blowing things up across many ideologies suggests that foreign policy might be a great smokescreen for abusers to pick failsons like the last guy up and say "hey bud join my crew, also check out this vid from syria etc. etc. aren't the crusaders bad and so on" but that it's basically led by Charles Manson style dickheads who are a type of person that will probably exist forever, just like their prey, because some people just are that way.

Yeah, the thing is that the more you alienate a minority, the more members of said minority will be susceptible to radicalization. And as you note western foreign policy provides a huge and visible component when it comes to making muslims feeling like second-class citizens, which therefore plays right into the hands of assholes like ISIS.

This is why western foreign policy is to blame. It's counterproductive and plays right into the hands of ISIS and their ilk. Pretending like every suicide bomber is some incomprehensible black box is basically denying a huge contributing factor to terrorism and hence directly increases the risk of terror attacks.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:52

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Oborne: Corbyn's election manifesto for the Middle East is radical and morally courageous

quote:

This cross-party consensus has been smashed, thanks to Jeremy Corbyn, the current Labour leader. Whatever one thinks of Corbyn's political views (and I disagree with many of them), British democracy owes him a colossal debt of gratitude for restoring genuine political debate to Britain.

And of course his extremely brave and radical decision to break with the foreign policy analysis of Blair and his successors explains why he is viewed with such hatred and contempt across so much of the media and within the Westminster political establishment.

Let's now look at Corbyn's foreign policy in light of the publication this week of the parties' manifestos ahead of the country's 8 June general election.

Contrary to what one reads in the newspapers or hears on television, his manifesto is a well-argued and coherent critique of the foreign policy consensus which has done so much damage over the last quarter of a century.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:52

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Guavanaut posted:

As a manager? She's certainly qualified in the empathy department.

Sanction rate in DWP would quintuple the moment she gets the job.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:53

deletebeepbeepbeep: Nov 12, 2008

loving hell never thought I'd agree with anything Osbourne said.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:55

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

deletebeepbeepbeep posted:

loving hell never thought I'd agree with anything Osbourne said.

Not him, the Telegraph hack who quit during the HSBC scandal

# ? May 26, 2017 10:57

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

deletebeepbeepbeep posted:

loving hell never thought I'd agree with anything Osbourne said.

Oborne, not Osbourne. He's that rare beast, a genuinely principled right-wing reporter - for instance, he resigned from the Telegraph because they were corrupt as gently caress.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:58

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Since free school meals are a hot topic at the moment, and since I'm dealing with a lot of Parliamentary papers lately, I thought the thread would enjoy some choice quotes from Tories in 1905 concerning free school meals:

Sir Frederick Banbury posted:

It had been argued that this should be done because it would improve the physical condition of the children. In his opinion good clothing was quite as necessary for the physical development of children as good food. Was it going to be held that they were not only to educate and feed but also to clothe the children? And when all that had been done he supposed it would be necessary to see that they had proper shelter, for that was a very important element in their physical condition. He had as much sympathy with poor people as any hon. Gentleman opposite, but he had spoken as he had because he believed in all sincerity that the very worst thing they could do in that House was to destroy the habit of self-reliance.

Sir George Bartley posted:

[We are] all agreed as to the existence of the evil [of starving children], the only difference was as to the best mode of treating it... It seemed to him obvious that the introduction into our schools of a system of feeding some of the children would in a short time result in the whole of the children being fed. Would this really be beneficial to the country or to the poor themselves?

By the acceptance of this Motion they would be undermining the very basis of the structure of society and sowing the seed for the absolute destruction of the whole social fabric. The parents were without doubt responsible for the feeding of their children. His hon. friend had referred to a case in which an inspector stated that parents could carry out this responsibility if it were not for gin and horse-racing.

There might be many reasons why it was desirable to give free education, but had it really had the effect of enabling the poor people to make their children more comfortable and to supply them with more food. He emphatically said that it was not so.

He was sure hon. Gentlemen opposite would not think he had been induced to speak in this way other than by kindly feelings towards the poor. In his opinion it was not kind to the people to make them rely upon other people. On the contrary he thought it was the greatest unkindness they could do them, because it tended to demoralise them, and the true kindness was to make the poor know and feel their responsibility and impress upon them the necessity of looking to the future before they married and had families. They ought to know that they would not be allowed to foist their responsibilities upon the public without the usual consequences.

Sir W. Hart Dyke posted:

What does it all lead to? He had been told that if they were going to feed children they must also clothe them. He did not think that need be necessary if proper precautions were taken.

gently caress tories forever.

communism bitch fucked around with this message at 11:01 on May 26, 2017

# ? May 26, 2017 10:58

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

deletebeepbeepbeep posted:

loving hell never thought I'd agree with anything Osbourne said.

Not Osborne, Peter Oborne. A prominent conservative commentator, not as out of time as Peter Hitchens mind you, notable for having quite the Telegraph in 2015 when it was revealed they were suppressing investigations into prominent advertisers like HSBC. In 2013 he did a book on A Dangerous Delusion: Why the Iranian Nuclear Threat is a Myth

EDIT: loving hell, beaten badly by two other people.

# ? May 26, 2017 10:58

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

Edit: beaten to it by others.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:00

deletebeepbeepbeep: Nov 12, 2008

loving hell, normality is restored.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:02

His Divine Shadow: Aug 7, 2000; I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

It's the loving green goblin

# ? May 26, 2017 11:02

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Pissflaps posted:

Not sure this Corbyn supporter is doing his campaign any good

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/867377808342908930

quote:

Buckley was captured on video as she attacked May�s decision to deploy the Army following the murder of 22 children and adults at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester

Labour staff were alerted to the incident and decided to expel Buckley when they discovered her Twitter feed contained repeated support for former Respect MP George Galloway.

Sources insisted it was this rather than her remarks outside No.10 that were the justification under party rules for explusion.

Buckley was wearing a backpack emblazoned with a photo of Jeremy Corbyn and the word �Hope� when she approached the Downing Street gates to make her point about previous foreign wars conducted by the UK.

As both troops and police looked on, she shouted: �The biggest terrorists occupy this place. Theresa May you�re a terrorist, you�re the biggest terrorist.

�Get rid of this vile, terrorist Government and vote for the politics of peace, vote for the politics of a future!�

Buckley, from West London, has posted selfies with senior Labour figures including Jeremy Corbyn and Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell.

She was informed by email and by letter of her expulsion on Thursday.

whoops

# ? May 26, 2017 11:05

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

That's probably one of the few articles written by a right winger written in good faith.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:05

FiftySeven: Jan 1, 2006; I WON THE BETTING POOL ON TESSAS THIRD STUPID VOTE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS HALF-ASSED TITLE; Slippery Tilde

TheRat posted:

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/868028943659524096

My nipples could cut diamonds right now...

# ? May 26, 2017 11:06

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

His Divine Shadow posted:

It's the loving green goblin

Nah that's Osborn. Do try and keep up.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:06

Biggus Dickus: May 18, 2005; Roadies know where to focus the spotlight.

Jezza is going live on Faceberk:
https://www.facebook.com/JeremyCorbynMP/videos/10155395577533872/

E: Good man - including the Jo Cox murder in a brief list of terrorist actions.

Biggus Dickus fucked around with this message at 11:14 on May 26, 2017

# ? May 26, 2017 11:06

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Cerebral Bore posted:

Yeah, the thing is that the more you alienate a minority, the more members of said minority will be susceptible to radicalization. And as you note western foreign policy provides a huge and visible component when it comes to making muslims feeling like second-class citizens, which therefore plays right into the hands of assholes like ISIS.

This is why western foreign policy is to blame. It's counterproductive and plays right into the hands of ISIS and their ilk. Pretending like every suicide bomber is some incomprehensible black box is basically denying a huge contributing factor to terrorism and hence directly increases the risk of terror attacks.

You are always likely to gently caress someone off at any given time if you are sufficiently powerful that you could reasonably have any effect on someone's life (if for no other reason than you didn't prioritise someone else instead).

Now while I agree that knocking over some governments in the middle east and killing loads of people was Bad, and that less wars and jingoism in general would be Good, I'm not sure very much would change wrt terrorism.

Kurtofan posted:

they'll always exist but they don't always have powerful groups residing in destabilized regions

I dunno about that. Back when it was big, the communist terrorists were able to run to the east, the arab nationalists always had a place in Egypt, wahhabists have their thing going on in the Gulf, white anti-anti-colonialist terrorists had Rhodesia or South Africa, and the 'Ra always had the US (while the ulster loyalists were already protected by the RUC).

# ? May 26, 2017 11:07

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

he ate a bat once

# ? May 26, 2017 11:08

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

This seems like a good speech.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:15

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

(YouGov live poll)

# ? May 26, 2017 11:23

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

jBrereton posted:

You are always likely to gently caress someone off at any given time if you are sufficiently powerful that you could reasonably have any effect on someone's life (if for no other reason than you didn't prioritise someone else instead).

Now while I agree that knocking over some governments in the middle east and killing loads of people was Bad, and that less wars and jingoism in general would be Good, I'm not sure very much would change wrt terrorism.

I dunno about that. Back when it was big, the communist terrorists were able to run to the east, the arab nationalists always had a place in Egypt, wahhabists have their thing going on in the Gulf, white anti-anti-colonialist terrorists had Rhodesia or South Africa, and the 'Ra always had the US (while the ulster loyalists were already protected by the RUC).

Good grief. I think you're overegging the cynical realist gimmick a bit here.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:24

thehappyprince: Apr 4, 2006; Alastair Cock

Firos posted:

This seems like a good speech.

agreed. dunno what all the fuss was about, nothing was controversial in it.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:27

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

Firos posted:

This seems like a good speech.

I like that he never directly criticised May - kind of undercuts any accusations about political point scoring.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:27

waffle: May 12, 2001; HEH

Guess we'll see how it's covered in the media but agreed, I thought that was a really great speech.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:28

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Speech seems to be going down very well:

https://twitter.com/randerssays/status/868050121178656768

# ? May 26, 2017 11:28

SteelMentor: Oct 15, 2012; TOXIC

I'm legit pleasantly surprised by the response people are giving to this whole debacle. Outside of the typical swivel-eyed loon demographic, people seem to be really coming around to the correct assumption that indiscriminately bombing the Middle East isn't helping things.

Hopefully the Tories will continue their spree of shooting themselves in the balls and double down on the kill 'em all rhetoric, the public are rightfully getting sick of it.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:29

HJB: Feb 16, 2011; I can't get enough of are Dan

Looking at the "other side", the Cox comparison looks to have gone down like a lead balloon but not too much criticism of the rest other than the usual lines.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:30

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Depending on how it lands I think corbyns position is a good one that can work well.

Remember that even crazy trump voters partially voted for him because he was going to stop going out on random wars in the middle East which the public has been sick of for about 5 years now.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:31

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Spectator has the transcript, I'm reading it through.

Smart play to bring up Jo Cox early and often.

E: hahaha that repurposed Blair quote. That was impressively vicious.

# ? May 26, 2017 11:31

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

jBrereton posted:

You are always likely to gently caress someone off at any given time if you are sufficiently powerful that you could reasonably have any effect on someone's life (if for no other reason than you didn't prioritise someone else instead).

Now while I agree that knocking over some governments in the middle east and killing loads of people was Bad, and that less wars and jingoism in general would be Good, I'm not sure very much would change wrt terrorism.

"You can never stop terrorism so let's not try" -J Brereton, age 5

# ? May 26, 2017 11:33

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 23:26

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

Darth Walrus posted:

Spectator has the transcript, I'm reading it through.

Smart play to bring up Jo Cox early and often.

E: hahaha that repurposed Blair quote. That was impressively vicious.

What quote is that out of curiosity?

# ? May 26, 2017 11:34

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