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GaussianCopula posted:So what about Greece and Italy, who have failed the union by not securing their borders or caring for the refugees they are responsible for? As it is very often, the answer is redistribution 
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May 26, 2017 13:30
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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GaussianCopula posted:So what about Greece and Italy, who have failed the union by not securing their borders or caring for the refugees they are responsible for? I don't know about Greece, but after the UK bows out, Italy is something like 1/3rd of the entire EU-space program. I don't think ESA would like it very much if we slash their budget by ca. 33%. We're already spending only a tiny fraction of NASA, if we're spending even less, we could just close down shop and send what is left to the US. Or China. I'm sure the Chinese space progam could use some help, too.
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May 26, 2017 13:35
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Corbyn has a nice voice.
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May 26, 2017 13:35
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Libluini posted:I don't know about Greece, but after the UK bows out, Italy is something like 1/3rd of the entire EU-space program. I don't think ESA would like it very much if we slash their budget by ca. 33%. We're already spending only a tiny fraction of NASA, if we're spending even less, we could just close down shop and send what is left to the US. Or China. I'm sure the Chinese space progam could use some help, too. Not sure where you see a connection between border security and ESA? Satellite surveillance?
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May 26, 2017 14:36
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GaussianCopula posted:So what about Greece and Italy, who have failed the union by not securing their borders or caring for the refugees they are responsible for? Well the answer is obvious, when you actually bother to think about it. This is a union with free movement of people. As far as defense is concerned, the outer borders of the European Union are the outer borders of every single country in the union. Therefore, Italy's borders aren't Italy's responsibility alone. Greece's borders aren't Greece's responsibility alone. Italy's borders and Greece's borders are the EU's borders, and securing them is the EU's duty. It's not Italy and Greece who failed the Union; it's the Union who failed Italy and Greece, and therefore, all the other countries.  If we look at a map of the EU mainland, it is blatant that there are some countries that can afford to be idle in the protection of their borders because they're safely cushioned by having a bunch of other countries all around them. Since these countries are situated at a position where they cannot offer a direct contribution to collective defense, they should offer an indirect contribution, in the form of subsidizing the border guards of the countries that do. In other words, countries such as Germany, Denmark, and the Benelux should help fund the Greek, Italian, and Spanish defense budget.
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May 26, 2017 14:44
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The issue is that the union has a treaty which clearly states who is responsible - you might think it's a bad treaty, but it was unanimously accepted, although at a time where the largest group of refugees did not come across the Med but from the east.
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May 26, 2017 14:47
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Cat Mattress posted:Well the answer is obvious, when you actually bother to think about it.
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May 26, 2017 14:54
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"It was agreed, terefore what if reality changed? It was agreed. " god are GC and Schauble cynical
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May 26, 2017 14:56
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GaussianCopula posted:The issue is that the union has a treaty which clearly states who is responsible - you might think it's a bad treaty, but it was unanimously accepted, although at a time where the largest group of refugees did not come across the Med but from the east. I just signed a treaty abolishing gravity, hopefully you will disappear into space the next time you step outside.
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May 26, 2017 14:58
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Cat Mattress posted:Well the answer is obvious, when you actually bother to think about it. Frontex got a reform about a year ago, giving them more money and powers. They now have a rapid response team that can drop wherever and fingerprint brown people on demand
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May 26, 2017 15:07
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"Ei greece, you've been overspending, please slash your budget and destroy a third of your economy. Now spend more money on border control" "Ei Italy, i know you've warned us about Lampedusa since 2013 and we've been collectively twiddling our thumbs, but the rules are the rules." "Ei germany, how come there are so many refugees around? did someone invited them here or something?" "ei man, how do loving magnets work?"
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May 26, 2017 15:12
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Frontex got a reform about a year ago, giving them more money and powers. They now have a rapid response team that can drop wherever and fingerprint brown people on demand What do they need the extra funds for? https://theintercept.com/2017/04/01/europe-keeps-its-rescue-ships-far-from-the-coast-of-libya-where-thousands-of-refugees-have-drowned/
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May 26, 2017 15:29
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GaussianCopula posted:So what about Greece and Italy, who have failed the union by not securing their borders or caring for the refugees they are responsible for? Two responses: 1. If we're to be a union it isn't Greece and Italy's border, but EU borders. Did Greece and Italy get sufficient support from the rest of the EU to even be able to accomplish this monumental task? Ofcourse they didn't, they instead got their state apparatus' hijacked and their countries put on fire for the benefit of, wait for it, loving bankers. 2. Go gently caress yourself, we're talking about legitimate refugees, we do not need to be "secured" from them. GaussianCopula posted:The issue is that the union has a treaty which clearly states who is responsible - you might think it's a bad treaty, but it was unanimously accepted, although at a time where the largest group of refugees did not come across the Med but from the east. So loving what? If the EU is ever going to work, it's going to be through appealing to people's ideals, not through legalistic ratfucking. So you and yours either start selling people a narrative with some loving vision, or you can start preparing for the day you get to argue that the collapse of the EU wasn't *technically* your fault, while half the drat continent crumbles around you. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 15:45 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 15:39
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Cat Mattress posted:
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May 26, 2017 18:22
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I think Rutte is close to opening negotiations with Wilders.
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May 26, 2017 18:38
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What the hell?? Denmark borders a source of refugees, that's why we're always putting up border security. Wouldn't be fair if we had to pay for Mediterranean border guards too. I wouldn't call the Malmö commuters refugees exactly. Well, not until they decide to return to Sweden anyway.
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May 26, 2017 18:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What the hell?? Denmark borders a source of refugees, that's why we're always putting up border security. Wouldn't be fair if we had to pay for Mediterranean border guards too. I wouldn't say Greenland borders the US, at least technically.
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May 26, 2017 18:57
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Please do not downplay all the political refugees from Germany.
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May 26, 2017 19:22
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Shibawanko posted:I think Rutte is close to opening negotiations with Wilders. Don't disappoint me now Rutte. I've been calling VVD-PVV-CDA-X from the start.
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May 26, 2017 20:33
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Shibawanko posted:I think Rutte is close to opening negotiations with Wilders. Shocking noone.
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May 26, 2017 23:43
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The Belgian record is tough but i have confidence that 4 day negotiation weeks and repeated breaks for reflection are the tactics that will take us there.
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May 27, 2017 01:14
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Isnt it eye opening that many capitals of europe now being patrolled by the professional soldiers?
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May 27, 2017 02:53
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That's why I'm happy that the Bundeswehr can hardly be called professional.
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May 27, 2017 12:10
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What the hell?? Denmark borders a source of refugees, that's why we're always putting up border security. Wouldn't be fair if we had to pay for Mediterranean border guards too.
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May 27, 2017 12:17
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https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/868419494162681856quote:Soldiers deployed to support the police will be stood down on Monday night, at the close of the bank holiday weekend. *laughs in état d'urgence permanent*
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May 27, 2017 12:37
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LeoMarr posted:Isnt it eye opening that many capitals of europe now being patrolled by the professional soldiers? Yeah our leaders are cowards with no vision so we all get to play security theatre instead.
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May 27, 2017 13:25
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europe right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWa0dZMHYeE aint even a big deal anymore either
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May 27, 2017 13:26
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Wild Horses posted:europe right now what's happening
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May 27, 2017 13:29
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Orange Devil posted:Yeah our leaders are cowards with no vision so we all get to play security theatre instead. I'm finding it darkly funny that Theresa May is the one to stop this stupid poo poo after just a week.
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May 27, 2017 13:50
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Kurtofan posted:what's happening bombs are happening
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May 27, 2017 14:10
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What European capitals are patrolled by soldiers? Did the UK use soldiers after the Manchester attack? Is he talking about that or did I miss a coup or something?
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May 27, 2017 14:10
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Wild Horses posted:bombs are happening where?
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May 27, 2017 14:11
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What is going on, should I be hysterical?
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May 27, 2017 14:13
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:What is going on, should I be hysterical? Yes, also consume more, vote for whoever will help multinationals and cheer on the destruction of any right you have. Otherwise terrorists win.
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May 27, 2017 14:25
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:What European capitals are patrolled by soldiers? Did the UK use soldiers after the Manchester attack? Is he talking about that or did I miss a coup or something? Very briefly the UK used soldiers after Manchester, at least partially coz when Theresa May was Home Secretary we didn't fund the police enough. At least partially it was probably because our PM thought that soldiers on the streets with their guns would help her image of looking strong & stable, and that's so far been her sole policy this election.
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May 27, 2017 15:21
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Can someone explain to me why soldiers (or any other state force) patrolling the streets is bad, given that we are living in liberal democracies? They are not used to suppress the opposition or for any other nefarious reasons. In the UKMT I read that officials were warned from 5 different sources about the latest attacker, which makes it very obvious that we are not dealing with a situation where the security forces are too oppressive.
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May 27, 2017 15:31
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What is their purpose? Like, what are they actually doing other than standing around with a gun?
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May 27, 2017 15:36
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doverhog posted:What is their purpose? Like, what are they actually doing other than standing around with a gun? Mostly just that I guess. Stand around with your gun and do nothing - the don't have any special martial law powers where they are allowed to shoot people on sight.
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May 27, 2017 15:39
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Grownass man asks why untrained country bumpkins with assault rifles performing police duties is actually a bad thing. loving unreal
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May 27, 2017 15:40
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GaussianCopula posted:Can someone explain to me why soldiers (or any other state force) patrolling the streets is bad, given that we are living in liberal democracies? Mostly because we are living in liberal democracies & soldiers patrolling the streets is actually usually not the sign of a stable liberal democracy? Never mind that they just aren't trained to do basic policing, they are trained to kill people.
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May 27, 2017 15:48
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