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Uncleanly Cleric posted:Probably because people are tired of seeing it. The mealy-mouthed "Nothing Matters" suggests that the speaker can't see the forest for the trees since it hasn't immediately resulted in arrests and jail time 20 minutes after the news came to light. Stuff actually does matter. It's just not mattering at the rate we're used to. Trump's bad boy non-politician reputation and conservative's lack of caring at anything they can disregard as fake news allow him to shed some but not all controversy. However he's only able to shed so much so fast. His approval rate is slowly climbing. Slowly. However that's because he's elsewhere. Him loving poo poo up locally is what puts the hate on. I actually don't think it'll be any particular scandal that breaks the Trump administration, but the long string of scandals will prime him to be despised when his first crisis comes and he flunks it because he's not a competent executive and no one is truly in charge. That crisis probably won't break his administration either, but he'll never recover from it. Conservatives will look to him for strength and leadership when it counts and be disappointed. They won't exactly buy left wing narrative, but they'll grumble and not buy into his either. So at this point I'm mostly waiting for his first true crisis of leadership and the response. If the response is competent (doubtful) he'll recover. If he doesn't surprise us and makes things worse people will lose faith and faith is the only thing keeping his administration going, because facts certainly aren't. I'm essentially waiting not for Trump to be defeated, but the idea of Trump to be defeated. Trump is already defeating himself on a daily basis because all of his current scandals are self-inflicted. However the idea of Trump as a successful, strong businessman hasn't been fully defeated yet. That's going to take time and pain. 
Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 04:53 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 04:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Looks like an "or" after war to me there The only precedents where war wasn't explicitly declared was someone was charged with treason for making videos for Al Qaeda. And he was drone striked instead of actually tried. If anything, it might be some form of espionage case, which is usually what a lot of the American-turned-Soviet Cold War spies were convicted of. I am not a lawyer etc
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May 27, 2017 04:50
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Spaced God posted:The Constitution defined treason as "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort" and is further defined in US Code as "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere" The Rosenbergs were executed, but the US didn't have a declaration of war against the USSR.
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May 27, 2017 04:50
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If you're to the point where people are debating whether or not you're guilty of treason, then you've committed at least a couple of other crimes in the process. We don't need a treason conviction against the Kush to bring down the White House. I'm pretty sure 30 days in the county lockup would break him.
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May 27, 2017 04:51
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Ego-bot posted:The Rosenbergs were executed, but the US didn't have a declaration of war against the USSR. As I alluded to in the post above, the Rosenbergs were convicted of Espionage, not treason
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May 27, 2017 04:51
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Spaced God posted:The only precedents where war wasn't explicitly declared was someone was charged with treason for making videos for Al Qaeda. And he was drone striked instead of actually tried. Even the legal dictionaries aren't much help. Burton's Legal Thesaurus, 4E posted:ENEMY, international law. By this term is understood the whole body of a nation at war with another. It also signifies a citizen or subject of such a nation, as when we say an alien enemy. In a still more extended sense, the word includes any of the subjects or citizens of a state in amity with the United States, who, have commenced, or have made preparations for commencing hostilities against the United States; and also the citizens or subjects of a state in amity with the United States, who are in the service of a state at war with them. Salk. 635; Bac. Ab. Treason, G. I think it might be semi vague on purpose in a lot of respects. Edit: Mostly because it's hard to pin down what "hostilities" can entail. Can election manipulation be interpreted as a hostile action? Uncleanly Cleric fucked around with this message at 04:56 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 04:54
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Spaced God posted:As I alluded to in the post above, the Rosenbergs were convicted of Espionage, not treason So was Aldrich Ames. I doubt anyone would find many in the intelligence community who wouldn't describe him as a traitor, regardless of the strict legal definition.
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May 27, 2017 05:02
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Deadulus posted:I thought you could only commit treason by aiding an enemy during a declared war. Is that incorrect? I guess this has been blurred somewhat by the expansion of the Presidents war powers though. There hasn't been a Congress declared war since WWII right? So it should be impossible to commit treason now. Anyone know exactly how all that works? It was left kind of nebulous and non-specific on purpose, if memory serves. It was also deliberate that that's the only actual crime explicitly outlined in the Constitution. "Treason" can mean a lot of things.
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May 27, 2017 05:04
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Ice Phisherman posted:Stuff actually does matter. It's just not mattering at the rate we're used to. Trump's bad boy non-politician reputation and conservative's lack of caring at anything they can disregard as fake news allow him to shed some but not all controversy. However he's only able to shed so much so fast. His approval rate is slowly climbing. Slowly. However that's because he's elsewhere. Him loving poo poo up locally is what puts the hate on. To be quite honest, after following this thread compulsively since February, at this point your post reads as the kind of tempered prediction of relative stability that's going to probably seem absurd in its underestimation of the sheer endless depths of corruption, incompetence, and the sheer inability of the Trump administration to mitigate their own colossal gently caress ups after just another month. I'd agree with you that it's going to be any kind of inevitable external crisis which cripples the administration, but I think it's more likely to burst into flames than wilt the moment that happens. The absolute latest possible date this administration hangs on is just after the midterm election.
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May 27, 2017 05:11
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Grapplejack posted:Puerto Rico kinda doesn't have a choice at this point; they do not have the money to continue their current territorial status. Part of the getting screwed so badly and put in to their current position is because they aren't a state, either. Having PR become a state under Trump will be a disaster because they won't get the help that they need, and even under a POTUS that will help PR it still is going to take a ton of money and work to get things fixed there. That said, PR needs to be the 51st state (DC's population can be split among VA/MD they shouldn't be a state  ) and we need to get them fixed up. It's just going to be impossible to do so without a bunch of corporations digging in their claws because that location is prime for tourism and a few other things (but mainly tourism).Moatman posted:Holy gently caress http://www.wweek.com/uncategorized/...men-passengers/ If only we knew what set off these lone wolf attackers.
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May 27, 2017 05:16
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this is why you give these people the richard spencer. you dont try to tell them to stop, you dont try to get them to calm down, you knock them the gently caress out cuz it's the only thing they understand. two innocent people are dead.
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May 27, 2017 05:20
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Moatman posted:Holy gently caress http://www.wweek.com/uncategorized/...men-passengers/ god drat this is so horrifying. I like to believe I would stand up and tell him to stop just like those two did but never did I think for even a second that I might get my throat cut if I did. gently caress this country, I need to get out of here.
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May 27, 2017 05:26
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You can be executed for espionage because of a WWI law where the goal of passing on the info was to hurt the US armed forces or help an enemy nation succeed. Which is interpreted as an act of treason.
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May 27, 2017 05:31
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Giving stuff to Russia in the current political climate won't get called capital t Treason in court. Why? After all, "aid and comfort" to enemies is vaguely defined, right? Thing is, if you charge or accuse someone of treason, you're also saying that whoever they were helping was an enemy. Thus, no treason charge because like hell anyone sensible is going to give Putin the political ammo of "America said we are their enemy".
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May 27, 2017 05:32
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Ice Phisherman posted:
Sure, but his first crisis might be something like the debt ceiling where the risk is a global economic crash. He might fall so hard he takes the rest of us out with him.
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May 27, 2017 05:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure, but his first crisis might be something like the debt ceiling where the risk is a global economic crash. He might fall so hard he takes the rest of us out with him. would that be so terrible? wipe out the bank accounts of the elite, while the majority of americans who have little to know savings can start fresh and debt free
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May 27, 2017 05:34
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Except the goal of Russia was to harm the United States. Which it has. There's room to contest a death penalty conviction and if the espionage act applies. But the fact that we're at this point is very bad.
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May 27, 2017 05:34
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empty whippet box posted:god drat this is so horrifying. I like to believe I would stand up and tell him to stop just like those two did but never did I think for even a second that I might get my throat cut if I did. gently caress this country, I need to get out of here. poo poo like this happens all the time, you're just hearing about this one. Crazy man yells on public transport > someone tells him to shut up > violence is unfortunately common. It's the lack of mental health services for people like him that lead to these situations 
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May 27, 2017 05:35
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Evil Fluffy posted:Part of the getting screwed so badly and put in to their current position is because they aren't a state, either. The Republican controlled Congress isn't going to admit Puerto Rico into the Union and tip the Senate +2 to the Democrats.
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May 27, 2017 05:37
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maskenfreiheit posted:would that be so terrible? wipe out the bank accounts of the elite, while the majority of americans who have little to know savings can start fresh and debt free In this context the "elite" includes "Everyone living in a a developed world economy". It wouldn't just wipe out savings. It'd be worse than the Great Depression, people would starve.
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May 27, 2017 05:37
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Grapplejack posted:poo poo like this happens all the time, you're just hearing about this one. Crazy man yells on public transport > someone tells him to shut up > violence is unfortunately common. It's the lack of mental health services for people like him that lead to these situations Sounds more like a politically motivated terror attack than a mental health issue to me, but of course I ran it through my "what if dude wasn't white" filter.
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May 27, 2017 05:37
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maskenfreiheit posted:would that be so terrible? wipe out the bank accounts of the elite, while the majority of americans who have little to know savings can start fresh and debt free When the economy abruptly goes way down the shitter, rich people get less rich. Poor people die.
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May 27, 2017 05:38
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Majorian posted:The Intelligence Community views Jared as a traitor. He'll be lucky if he just ends up in jail. Nothing is gonna happen to him. The best we can hope for is that he gets fired from the administration.
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May 27, 2017 05:41
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Grapplejack posted:poo poo like this happens all the time, you're just hearing about this one. Crazy man yells on public transport > someone tells him to shut up > violence is unfortunately common. It's the lack of mental health services for people like him that lead to these situations Either that, or he's just a loving racist piece of trash. Give them the same benefit of the doubt that Rs give minorities
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May 27, 2017 05:42
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Vedius Pollio posted:To be quite honest, after following this thread compulsively since February, at this point your post reads as the kind of tempered prediction of relative stability that's going to probably seem absurd in its underestimation of the sheer endless depths of corruption, incompetence, and the sheer inability of the Trump administration to mitigate their own colossal gently caress ups after just another month. I'd agree with you under normal circumstances. However this isn't normal. What's important is the sheer amount of corruption actually penetrating the conservative bubble and getting into peoples' brains as a real thing that they don't like. Currently they can dismiss it. As it builds it'll get harder to dismiss. Things won't matter (as much) until republicans get sick of him too. The first real crisis they have they will fail. A lot of people are going to suffer and die. I don't think it'll be humanitarian though. Something like Haiti for example can be spun like, "Well, we're doing something and something is better than nothing". It'll probably be a domestic crisis. If I had to guess I'd say some sort of biblical style flood of the Mississippi as flooding is only going to get worse year by year with climate change. Absolutely agree that it'll burst into flames. Reason being that they're devoting their full attention to dealing with self-inflicted wounds. They won't be able to keep up with an external crisis and self-inflicted wounds. They'll try to address both and fail at addressing either. They'll scream fake news while Rome burns. I've come to think of Trump's reputation as a sponge. Trying not to be insulting about it either because it's pretty amazing. The sponge is his bad boy billionaire reputation. It soaks, processes and releases bad press. However he can only do this at a fixed rate and the bad reputation is weakly cumulative. However too much bad reputation all at once will sink him. Further that reputation doesn't go away. It's expelled. It fucks over -other- people. People around the released bad press get covered in it because they don't have the same reputation sponge that Trump has.
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May 27, 2017 05:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:In this context the "elite" includes "Everyone living in a a developed world economy". Starving populaces tend to also become much more violent and thats the last thing the USA needs right now.
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May 27, 2017 05:44
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prom candy posted:Sounds more like a politically motivated terror attack than a mental health issue to me, but of course I ran it through my "what if dude wasn't white" filter. Yeah, it would be treated differently if he wasn't white.
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May 27, 2017 05:44
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mcmagic posted:Nothing is gonna happen to him. The best we can hope for is that he gets fired from the administration. What's the over-under bet on him silently having a mysterious "boating accident" like 3 years after getting kicked out?
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May 27, 2017 05:44
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It was left kind of nebulous and non-specific on purpose, if memory serves. It was also deliberate that that's the only actual crime explicitly outlined in the Constitution. "Treason" can mean a lot of things. I thought they made what constitutes treason extremely narrow on purpose. Because before you could just be declared in treason to the king and executed. Seems like the framers wanted to make it very difficult to levy that charge at anyone. Which seems to be the case because very few people have been charged with it in the US's history. Like you either have to start a war against the US yourself or help an enemy that the US is in a declared war against. The espionage and sedition acts were passed to get around this somewhat. Which have those acts had much court ruling on? It seems like they would be unconstitutional because they were created to make "treason" a crime in all but name.
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May 27, 2017 05:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:In this context the "elite" includes "Everyone living in a a developed world economy". if you can't grow your own food or possess a skill you can use to get someone to give you food that's pretty poor planning tbh
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May 27, 2017 05:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure, but his first crisis might be something like the debt ceiling where the risk is a global economic crash. He might fall so hard he takes the rest of us out with him. We're due for a recession actually. Overdue really. I expect a recession that he'll be blamed for if he lasts. If he actively makes it worse he won't be long for the office. They'll kick him out and you'll see yet another reactionary democratic government.
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May 27, 2017 05:51
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maskenfreiheit posted:if you can't grow your own food or possess a skill you can use to get someone to give you food that's pretty poor planning tbh Nobody is growing food in the amount you'd need to sustain yourself for a whole year in their backyard.
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May 27, 2017 05:51
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Trasson posted:Giving stuff to Russia in the current political climate won't get called capital t Treason in court. Flynn might have delayed military missions against ISIS in order to help Turkey. That's gonna be as close as you can get.
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May 27, 2017 05:52
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maskenfreiheit posted:if you can't grow your own food or possess a skill you can use to get someone to give you food that's pretty poor planning tbh "I'm sure economic collapse will result in appropriate land reform proposals" said no one, ever
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May 27, 2017 05:53
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maskenfreiheit posted:if you can't grow your own food or possess a skill you can use to get someone to give you food that's pretty poor planning tbh If you have enough land to do that newsflash: not poor
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May 27, 2017 05:54
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EnergizerFellow posted:What's the over-under bet on him silently having a mysterious "boating accident" like 3 years after getting kicked out? Over two boating accidents.
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May 27, 2017 05:54
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Deadulus posted:I thought they made what constitutes treason extremely narrow on purpose. Because before you could just be declared in treason to the king and executed. Seems like the framers wanted to make it very difficult to levy that charge at anyone. Which seems to be the case because very few people have been charged with it in the US's history. Like you either have to start a war against the US yourself or help an enemy that the US is in a declared war against. That was part of it; hence actually having it on the books. Depending on the king "disagreed with me" was treason. In the U.S. it isn't, at the moment, treason to disagree with the president but god drat it if the GOP doesn't make it sound like it is when one of theirs is in.
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May 27, 2017 05:54
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CommieGIR posted:Nobody is growing food in the amount you'd need to sustain yourself for a whole year in their backyard. eviltastic posted:"I'm sure economic collapse will result in appropriate land reform proposals" said no one, ever If you are not part of the landed gentry that's pretty poor planning, tbh.
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May 27, 2017 05:55
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Can someone honestly explain why the Seth rich thing isn't super worrisome, thanks in advances.
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May 27, 2017 05:58
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Darth Windu posted:Can someone honestly explain why the Seth rich thing isn't super worrisome, thanks in advances. Anthony Weiner is still alive.
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May 27, 2017 05:59
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