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Rakosi posted:In this case then Britain should do its absolute best to sabotage and tank the economies of apparently hostile powers as much as possible. Not being glib, but in this fantasy world of the EU deliberately conspiring to commit to trade wars against the UK, then maybe we should reply in kind and feel justified in doing so at the same time. I uh, don't think that "if I can't have it nobody can" has produced very good results for anybody in the long run.
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May 27, 2017 21:57
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CON: 311 LAB: 274 LD: 4 Other: 61 Charity: Samaritans
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May 27, 2017 21:59
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Julio Cruz posted:Nothing in there about him supporting the IRA, unless of course refusing to condemn one side without condemning the other counts (lol of course it does) Corbyn worked with the "Troops out movement" I don't expect people to understand what it was today as it's all ancient history now. But basically it would have given the IRA everything they wanted and if implemented as demanded would have created an epic clusterfuck of a situation with disbanding the RUC and the UDR, giving Northern Ireland to the Republic, the public of who, polls at the time said 75% didn't want if it meant paying more taxes. Not even mentioning the likely violent reaction of the Unionists. I understand if people aren't interested in this crap but bollocks is bollocks, Corbyn supported and was sympathetic to the IRA during the years of violence, it's a fact and not liking it, won't change it. Even the SDLP, a Nationalist party who actually did work for a peace process said he's full of it.
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May 27, 2017 22:00
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/868560077413900288 here we ... here we ... here we loving go!!!
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May 27, 2017 22:00
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Actually that reminds me - I was going to set up a book for the election and completely forgot about it. Hell realm guess. CON 410 LAB 183 LD 7 Other 50 Newspapers are just trying to sell papers by making us hype for a close finish. British public probably won't vote for terrorist grandpa just because he has good policies. Charity: Homeless Link
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May 27, 2017 22:00
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Rakosi posted:In this case then Britain should do its absolute best to sabotage and tank the economies of apparently hostile powers as much as possible. Not being glib, but in this fantasy world of the EU deliberately conspiring to commit to trade wars against the UK, then maybe we should reply in kind and feel justified in doing so at the same time. The basic problem is that Theresa May's strategy seems to be based on threatening to withdraw those political/military/intelligence connections if her impossible demands are not met. As soon as Britain appears to no longer be a reliable ally in those other ways, asset-stripping it is going to seem a lot more appealing. As for the idea of trade-warring back, we'd be in a vastly disadvantageous position if the EU goes economically hostile, since no longer being the wealthy English-speaking member of the EU would give our nomadic businesses little reason to stick around. I don't think that a trade-war is an automatic result of Brexit, but it's an extremely likely result of the hostile Brexit May is pushing us towards. We can't rely on continental European caution nearly as much as her team seems to believe, seeing as her threats could in fact end up as opportunities.
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May 27, 2017 22:01
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AP posted:Corbyn worked with the "Troops out movement" I don't expect people to understand what it was today as it's all ancient history now. But basically it would have given the IRA everything they wanted and if implemented as demanded would have created an epic clusterfuck of a situation with disbanding the RUC and the UDR, giving Northern Ireland to the Republic, the public of who, polls at the time said 75% didn't want if it meant paying more taxes. Not even mentioning the likely violent reaction of the Unionists. How many were opposed if it meant less/fewer taxes?
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May 27, 2017 22:02
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jabby posted:The big thread party that we didn't invite you to. You really don't want to commit to any sort of prediction of your own do you. nopantsjack posted:Hell realm guess. The problem for labour is that the people who say they will vote labour are the people who don't vote.
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May 27, 2017 22:04
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AP posted:Corbyn worked with the "Troops out movement" I don't expect people to understand what it was today as it's all ancient history now. But basically it would have given the IRA everything they wanted and if implemented as demanded would have created an epic clusterfuck of a situation with disbanding the RUC and the UDR, giving Northern Ireland to the Republic, the public of who, polls at the time said 75% didn't want if it meant paying more taxes. Not even mentioning the likely violent reaction of the Unionists. It's not controversial to say that Corbyn supported a united Ireland and so supported the withdrawal of British troops which were preventing that from happening and also met with Sinn Fein who were the political party which wanted that as well. It's accusations that he did it as a means of supporting and encouraging the violence which is wrong because peace is what he says is his motivation and when peace is agreed amongst the warring parties he supports it.
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May 27, 2017 22:05
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Jose posted:May campaigned for remain and is now all in for hard brexit lol She didn't campaign, per se.
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May 27, 2017 22:08
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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Pissflaps posted:You really don't want to commit to any sort of prediction of your own do you. I don't pretend to know what's going to happen, I just find it funny that you constantly accused Corbyn supporters of disbelieving the polls and now you predict a Labour result a good 6 points below where they're polling.
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May 27, 2017 22:09
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Rakosi posted:Lib dem (admittedly a bit loose to count that as a 'win')/tory/brexit and then Labour under JC. Already gone into why I'm switching and it's not a hard switch at that. I'm not trying to win anyone over and I hope Corbyn can overcome this issue. I was responding solely to the insinuation that I should be horrified at anyone having sympathy with the IRA.
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May 27, 2017 22:10
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Pissflaps posted:You really don't want to commit to any sort of prediction of your own do you. Didn't the polling companies drastically shift their weighting? That would imply that we're seeing a shift in opinion among the people who are likely to vote.
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May 27, 2017 22:12
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Pissflaps posted:The problem for labour is that the people who say they will vote labour are the people who don't vote. Can we use this as an excuse if/when Labour don't win? I'm ok with "Corbyn failed by voters".
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May 27, 2017 22:14
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Darth Walrus posted:Didn't the polling companies drastically shift their weighting?
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May 27, 2017 22:15
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Darth Walrus posted:The basic problem is that Theresa May's strategy seems to be based on threatening to withdraw those political/military/intelligence connections if her impossible demands are not met. As soon as Britain appears to no longer be a reliable ally in those other ways, asset-stripping it is going to seem a lot more appealing. As for the idea of trade-warring back, we'd be in a vastly disadvantageous position if the EU goes economically hostile, since no longer being the wealthy English-speaking member of the EU would give our nomadic businesses little reason to stick around. I would think that recent events in Manchester have made a military/intelligence divorce between the UK and the EU a political impossibility for May. This is part of her bluster, and is something she would be politically unable to deliver on as it would put our country at risk and everyone knows it. I agree with you on this and that's exactly why I think the rest of the scenario is fantasy and won't happen. Any talk of EU trade-wars after the fact is arzying. May has staked her position and I think eventually her bluff will be called and she'll have to backtrack. This is a part of why I am throwing my vote at Labour this time; they start from a slightly more realistic premise and cut out some of the political bullshit- something some of the more sabre-rattling EU politicians can learn from. May is not the only idiot leader in the EU on this issue.
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May 27, 2017 22:16
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Pissflaps posted:You really don't want to commit to any sort of prediction of your own do you. huh, i thought flaps had a pretty decent score at the vitally important for internet dickwaving (ability to troll):(ability to be trolled) ratio but it does seem pretty easy to make him repeatedly post at you just by implying he was wrong about a thing once guess that's useful information for those who find enjoyment in such things
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May 27, 2017 22:16
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm not trying to win anyone over and I hope Corbyn can overcome this issue. I was responding solely to the insinuation that I should be horrified at anyone having sympathy with the IRA. Sorry, must have misinterpreted what you were trying to say.
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May 27, 2017 22:17
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Regarde Aduck posted:Can we use this as an excuse if/when Labour don't win? I'm ok with "Corbyn failed by voters". Yeah, but rabid classism is kind of your thing.
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May 27, 2017 22:17
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jabby posted:I don't pretend to know what's going to happen, I just find it funny that you constantly accused Corbyn supporters of disbelieving the polls and now you predict a Labour result a good 6 points below where they're polling. I already told you I don't disbelieve the polls. I find it funny that you'll proclaim 'it's on' yet also claim to not have an opinion about what you think will happen. Angepain posted:huh, i thought flaps had a pretty decent score at the vitally important for internet dickwaving (ability to troll) None of this makes sense to me.
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May 27, 2017 22:19
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ability to be trolled) ratio but it does seem pretty easy to make him repeatedly post at you just by implying he was wrong about a thing once
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A jammy FA cup win? https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/868567732027052034
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May 27, 2017 22:22
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namesake posted:It's not controversial to say that Corbyn supported a united Ireland and so supported the withdrawal of British troops which were preventing that from happening and also met with Sinn Fein who were the political party which wanted that as well. It's accusations that he did it as a means of supporting and encouraging the violence which is wrong because peace is what he says is his motivation and when peace is agreed amongst the warring parties he supports it. I don't see how you can support the Troops out Movement & meet with Sinn Féin in the 70's & 80's without supporting and encouraging violence. Sinn Féin was the political wing of the IRA and the IRA were killing people, the Troops out Movement was a hardline Republican movement and their demands were everything the IRA wanted. Remember this was before one of the most bizzare episodes in the troubles, the broadcasting ban. He wasn't working for the peace process, well I mean maybe having a mate who was a Labour MP meant they felt more kindly towards some more MP's but if he was trying to convince them to stop killing people it's funny how he never said anything in public about it.
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May 27, 2017 22:22
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It would be rather difficult to attempt to negotiate peace with the IRA without talking to the IRA.
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May 27, 2017 22:23
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It is on. You really need a hobby, Flaps, yet another monthly thread draws to a close and yet again you're the top poster. But as a positive, that week off did you good, usually you're double the post count of second place at like 700 posts or something. Consider taking more weeks off.
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May 27, 2017 22:23
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OwlFancier posted:It would be rather difficult to attempt to negotiate peace with the IRA without talking to the IRA. Are you claiming Corbyn negotiated the Northern Ireland peace process?
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May 27, 2017 22:26
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Crosspeice posted:You really need a hobby, Flaps, yet another monthly thread draws to a close and yet again you're the top poster. That's very kind of you to say thank you.
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May 27, 2017 22:27
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Pissflaps posted:Are you claiming Corbyn negotiated the Northern Ireland peace process? Not unless he's a shapeshifter. That's easily one of the best things that New Labour pursued.
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May 27, 2017 22:27
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namesake posted:It's not controversial to say that Corbyn supported a united Ireland and so supported the withdrawal of British troops which were preventing that from happening and also met with Sinn Fein who were the political party which wanted that as well. It's accusations that he did it as a means of supporting and encouraging the violence which is wrong because peace is what he says is his motivation and when peace is agreed amongst the warring parties he supports it. It's entirely possible for someone to think that maybe the IRA has a reason to be unhappy with their country being occupied while also thinking that blowing people up is bad. The point that Corbyn is trying to make whenever he gets asked to disavow IRA bombings is that both sides were carrying out violent acts and it's purely because of historical whitewashing that people believe otherwise (we can't have done that, we're the good guys!)
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May 27, 2017 22:27
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Pissflaps posted:I already told you I don't disbelieve the polls. I know what I want to happen, not what will happen. I think your 'prediction' is you confusing the two.
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May 27, 2017 22:27
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TheRat posted:A jammy FA cup win? No I think Arsenal were definitely the better team.
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May 27, 2017 22:29
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jabby posted:I know what I want to happen, not what will happen. I think your 'prediction' is you confusing the two. I'm not confused about the difference at all. Thank you for agreeing that you claim to have no opinion about what you think will happen.
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May 27, 2017 22:30
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I'll be honest, at this point Corbyn's support for Arsenal is a far larger concern for me than his perceived support of the IRA.
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May 27, 2017 22:31
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Skinty McEdger posted:I'll be honest, at this point Corbyn's support for Arsenal is a far larger concern for me than his perceived support of the IRA. He's the MP for Islington, his choices are either "support Arsenal" or "dislike football", and even then the second one is a bit dicey.
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May 27, 2017 22:33
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flap gonna piss
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May 27, 2017 22:34
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Julio Cruz posted:It's entirely possible for someone to think that maybe the IRA has a reason to be unhappy with their country being occupied while also thinking that blowing people up is bad. The point that Corbyn is trying to make whenever he gets asked to disavow IRA bombings is that both sides were carrying out violent acts and it's purely because of historical whitewashing that people believe otherwise (we can't have done that, we're the good guys!) You should read up on the Irish Civil War. Life isn't simple and complex problems certainly don't have simple solutions.
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May 27, 2017 22:40
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AP posted:I don't see how you can support the Troops out Movement & meet with Sinn Féin in the 70's & 80's without supporting and encouraging violence. Sinn Féin was the political wing of the IRA and the IRA were killing people, the Troops out Movement was a hardline Republican movement and their demands were everything the IRA wanted. Remember this was before one of the most bizzare episodes in the troubles, the broadcasting ban. Well they were balancing the ballot box and the Armalite at the time so I'd say having at least some contact with British establishment which wasn't literally attacking them was probably quite helpful to getting some of them to acknowledge that maybe the peaceful way could work. Hell in the end it didn't work; NI is still part of the UK but they started speaking to other parts of the British state and hammered out peace. All anyone ever has against Corbyn on these things is guilt by association.
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May 27, 2017 22:41
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Pissflaps posted:Thank you for agreeing that you claim to have no opinion about what you think will happen. Have you considered a less ridiculous writing style?
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May 27, 2017 22:42
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AP posted:You should read up on the Irish Civil War. Life isn't simple and complex problems certainly don't have simple solutions. Nor can complicated positions be easily summed up as "he supported the IRA". Julio Cruz fucked around with this message at 22:44 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 22:42
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AP posted:You should read up on the Irish Civil War. Life isn't simple and complex problems certainly don't have simple solutions. Yes sometimes solutions involve talking to people.
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May 27, 2017 22:42
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OwlFancier posted:It would be rather difficult to attempt to negotiate peace with the IRA without talking to the IRA. What is there to negotiate when you support a group that wants all their demands met?
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May 27, 2017 22:43
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