vodkat posted:

Come on pissflaps, you know you are intentionally misrepresenting the politics at play here.

A second indy ref without westminster approval remains an open question legal and political question until it actually (if ever) happens.

learnincurve posted:

The fact that they are cheaper long term makes no difference if you have to make the choice between buying food for a day and buying a lightbulb.

Giving people the option of a free paper bag or charging 5p for a plastic bag is more carrot less stick.

Pissflaps posted:

If the SNP didn't need Westminster consent for an independence referendum they wouldn't have sought it in 2012 or now. Constitutional affairs are a reserved matter and Westminster is supreme within the UK. Any unofficial referendum would just be a survey, not contested by both sides under normal electoral rules and provide a result that would be ignored. It's UDI under a different name and UDI is madness.

TheRat posted:

These people really aren't very clever are they?
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/869206975661387776

Regarde Aduck posted:

Why is it madness? The only way UDI doesn't work is if the UK uses force and/or the rest of the world refuses to recognise independent Scotland. Do you think either is likely?

Regarde Aduck posted:

Why is it madness? The only way UDI doesn't work is if the UK uses force and/or the rest of the world refuses to recognise independent Scotland. Do you think either is likely?

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

lol

jabby posted:

May would loving love the excuse to send the Army up to Scotland and have Nicola Sturgeon locked in the Tower. Her poll numbers would go through the roof.

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

lol

Regarde Aduck posted:

Why is it madness? The only way UDI doesn't work is if the UK uses force and/or the rest of the world refuses to recognise independent Scotland. Do you think either is likely?

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

Got any tips on drawing blood?

My mum had a nurse do a blood test today that had to stab her three times to draw blood?

Hoops posted:

Lol yes are you high? No country, not a single one in the world, would recognise an independent Scotland without a formal resolution from the UK. Do you think they would?

Hoops posted:

Lol yes are you high? No country, not a single one in the world, would recognise an independent Scotland without a formal resolution from the UK. Do you think they would?

jabby posted:

https://twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/869190479732240386

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

Got any tips on drawing blood?

My mum had a nurse do a blood test today that had to stab her three times to draw blood?

feedmegin posted:

For a real-world demonstration of how all this works without Westminster consent, rest your peepers on Catalonia, btw. Is it independent yet? No? Well, that's how far unilateral independence referendums without the backing of constitutional law get you.

vodkat posted:

Scotland is very different from Catalonia, for a start its already recognized as nation separate from England and has been for its entire history, and thats without getting into its separate system of law etc etc, or any hardball politics the EU might want to play after brexit.

Hoops posted:

Lol yes are you high? No country, not a single one in the world, would recognise an independent Scotland without a formal resolution from the UK. Do you think they would?

Carecat posted:

The reason I'm not advocating any change in lightbulbs is because it's treating a symptom and we need big improvements to social care, the benefits system and employment.

Pissflaps posted:

I don't think the rest of the world would be very interested in our internal constitutional arrangements. States within the US can boast similar but that doesn't mean a Californian attempt at UDI would be any more successful. Scotland clearly isn't a 'separate nation' as it's part of the UK. It's a silly idea.

And that's not getting into this fantasy you have touched on that the EU will somehow demand Scottish independence as part of Brexit.

vodkat posted:

Scotland is very different from Catalonia, for a start its already recognized as nation separate from England and has been for its entire history, and thats without getting into its separate system of law etc etc, or any hardball politics the EU might want to play after brexit.

Namtab posted:

Make sure you get enough to drink beforehand (unless told not to)

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

Does this increase blood flow? Shes always drinking no sugar lemonade due to her diabetes

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

Does this increase blood flow? Shes always drinking no sugar lemonade due to her diabetes

serious gaylord posted:

The failure rate of LED bulbs, even with 'dodgy wiring' is far less than the failure rate of incandescent's. The £3 it costs for a bulb will more than pay for itself in electricity savings, and they, despite what you want to believe, don't blow on a weekly basis. What you've done here is go for the one legged wheelchair bound deaf blind person of anecdotes to try and prove your point. In your specific example, where the LED bulb is going on a daily basis and the person is so poor they have to choose between light and dinner for the day sure its unfair, but its just not based in reality. Same for your point about bin collections. There are plenty of people that go 2 weeks between collections without having to go to the tip. In fact I'd say the vast majority of the population are now on bi-weekly collections and the tip is still only used once or twice a year for people having a clear out.

Jose posted:

interestingly imo the calexit campaign is extremely russian influenced

jabby posted:

Your veins are more distended and easier to hit with a needle if you're better hydrated.

Tesseraction posted:

It helps maintain blood pressure. Lemonade, depending on what's in it, might lead to more water being flushed through the kidneys than just normal water.

exmarx posted:

Pissflaps posted:

I don't think the rest of the world would be very interested in our internal constitutional arrangements. States within the US can boast similar but that doesn't mean a Californian attempt at UDI would be any more successful. Scotland clearly isn't a 'separate nation' as it's part of the UK. It's a silly idea.

And that's not getting into this fantasy you have touched on that the EU will somehow demand Scottish independence as part of Brexit.

Rakosi posted:

Allies of the UK would only lose out by recognizing an independent Scotland; both sides would be weakened economically and militarily by being recognized and operational/logistical threats made to Trident and the like would do little to endear an independent Scotland to allies abroad who rely on the UK being able to militarily (read: politically) support operations where necessary. The RotW would prefer a united UK particularly during periods of international tension, IE now.

vodkat posted:

You outdo yourself in woeful misrepresentation here flaps: a state and a nation are very different things, please don't make the basic mistake of conflating them and I never even implied that the EU would 'demand' Scottish independence, but only and idiot would think brexit would force a reconsideration of their stance in regards to Scottish independence.

quote:

The Ukip leader, Paul Nuttall, has said it might be necessary to introduce internment without trial for terrorism suspects, adding that he would prioritise people’s lives over “the human rights of any jihadi”.

Speaking in the wake of Ukip’s move following the Manchester attack to focus its election approach more closely on Islamist terrorism, Nuttall denied that his party was becoming “extreme” over the issue.

But pressed by Andrew Neil as part of BBC1’s series of interviews with party leaders, Nuttall declined to condemn Gerard Batten, Ukip’s Brexit spokesman, for calling Islam a “death cult”, saying only that he had “got his terminology wrong”.

Nuttall insisted that Ukip was leading the way over policies such as a ban on Muslim women wearing a burqa in public and increased penalties for sexual offences against a person of a different religion.

“A lot of people within the Westminster bubble are very uncomfortable about it, but you know, we’re saying things that people are thinking, and what we’ve got to do is we’ve got to get to grips with this Islamist cancer within our midst,” Nuttall said.

“It needs to be cut out because I worry if it isn’t, then what happened the other night in Manchester may well become commonplace.”

Asked about the possible use of internment for people flagged as being under suspicion of terrorism, Nuttall said this might be necessary in the future.

“Well, when you read this morning there’s a suspected 23,000 jihadis living amongst us, obviously MI5 are stretched to capacity at this present moment in time,” he said.

“I think we’ve got to look at ways of ensuring that our people are safe, whether that is a return to control orders, whether that is tagging these people, who knows, in the future maybe a return to internment.”

Asked whether this might prove a recruiting tool for extremists, Nuttall said: “I wouldn’t take anything off the table in the future because ... unless we get a grip on this what happened in Manchester the other night, which is part of my constituency[as an MEP], could become commonplace. And that’s the last thing we want to see.”

Asked about previous comments in which he said torture techniques such as waterboarding might be justified if it was to prevent an imminent attack, Nuttall said he did not want it to be used routinely. However, he said in some cases “hard measures” could be needed.

“I would put the lives of British families over the human rights of any jihadi any day,” he said.

Nuttall also repeated that while support for the death penalty was not Ukip policy, he would be potentially willing to “pull the lever” and personally execute people convicted of child murders.

Asked whether his views as a whole indicated he was “becoming pretty extreme” in an attempt to boost Ukip’s flagging poll numbers, Nuttall rejected this.

He said: “The fact is we’re the only ones who are coming up with an agenda to try and improve integration in this country.”

Neil asked the Ukip leader about comments from Batten, one of the party’s MEPs, who used his personal blog to call Islam “a death cult”.

Nuttall said Batten was not speaking for the party but, asked for his views, declined to condemn him or threaten any disciplinary action. “I think he’s got his terminology wrong,” Nuttall said.

With Ukip polling at little more than 5%, as against nearly 13% in the 2015 election, Nuttall insisted his party would remain relevant.

“Well, look, sometimes in politics the tide comes in, the tide goes out,” he said. “And this is very opportune for Theresa May at the moment because she’s able to talk the talk and sound tough on the issue of Brexit because she hasn’t gone into those negotiations.

“It will get difficult for her once the negotiations start and that’s why it’s so important that Ukip remains on the pitch. And if she does backslide I’ll make a prediction: Ukip by the end of 2018 could be bigger than it ever has been before.”