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Endorph posted:not really. there are plenty of jrpgs with moral complexity on both sides. it doesn't have to be both sides being super complicated and nuanced, just moments of humanity. travant managed to come across like a reasonable person after literally murdering a woman and stealing her baby because of like seven lines, max. he isn't pure or tragic or even all the sympathetic, but he's a reasonable human being who does things for a reason. it isn't that hard to do and plenty of games have done it. To go all the way to the end of the spectrum, Luca Blight is more nuanced than most of the villains here, and that's not really something you really want to see in villains we're supposed to be taking seriously.
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May 29, 2017 01:57
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ungulateman posted:why create a fantasy world in which people can be anything they want, even a dragon, and still have your character be a raging transphobe Forrest is just a cross dresser I believe, though yea rest of your post stands.
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May 29, 2017 06:03
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Ehhh, having a character in your story that's prejudiced isn't necessarily indicative of bad writing, nor does it mean that the story itself is prejudiced. There's definitely faults to be found with Fates' treatment of LGBT issues as a whole, and the translation certainly didn't help on that front, but I don't think what we've seen so far of Leo's relationship with his son is especially problematic from our perspective as consumers (though obviously Leo done hosed up in universe). Heck, in the same scene we can see that Elise is very clearly supportive of Forrest's choices, and as a whole it would appear the game is depicting Leo as being in the wrong here. Criticize Leo for this, but don't criticize the writers.
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May 29, 2017 06:51
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also this is obviously ending with leo apologizing and im not spoilering that because come on
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May 29, 2017 07:19
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To me it's more about wondering why this kind of prejudice exists at all in a world without our centuries of religious baggage. But that's the least of their world building issues really. 
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May 29, 2017 07:54
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Clearly, Leo is just really, really envious that his son pulls off the ensemble better than he does.
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May 29, 2017 10:34
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Avalerion posted:To me it's more about wondering why this kind of prejudice exists at all in a world without our centuries of religious baggage. But that's the least of their world building issues really. THese kinds of prejudices don't exclusively or even primarily develop because of "religious baggage." Men adopting feminine dress or vice versa has been frowned upon for a large chunk of history in most cultures for various reasons, even those that have historically been very isolated from Western/Abrahamic cultural and religious influences.
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May 29, 2017 13:31
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  But I used to be fond of Father. He even gave me piggyback rides whenever I asked!
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May 29, 2017 16:14
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I love the supports between the Nohr siblings as it does an excellent job to explain why they were so close, as in they all got caught up in a war of potential successors and so with no love and support coming from their parents they instead rely on their siblings.
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May 29, 2017 17:22
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Also kind of explains why they would stand behind obviously evil murderdad.
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May 29, 2017 17:24
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:It's really loving jarring to go from Leo telling Charlotte "men have no right to define how women should act" to, well... this. The dice have a cruel sense of humor. Shei-kun posted:Clearly, Leo is just really, really envious that his son pulls off the ensemble better than he does. He can't abide by the fact that his son won't wear pants. RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 18:12
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RareAcumen posted:He can't abide by the fact that his son won't wear pants. Wha? 
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May 29, 2017 18:19
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Tae posted:Wha? ...Is he carrying a baguette into combat?
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May 29, 2017 18:31
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That's his hair.
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May 29, 2017 18:35
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So yes. Forest owns.
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May 29, 2017 18:36
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  Well, I'll be honest with you. I've been a little worried about the dragon I gave you. Voting will end in an hour or so.
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May 29, 2017 18:44
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Tae posted:Wha?  News to me, I'm judging based on what I've seen from the update.
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May 29, 2017 18:52
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Tae posted:
 He's just so proud
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May 29, 2017 21:16
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What is this random voting, why is Percy suddenly on the cutting block. Why is Azura now getting cut? Why is there a tie. Someone vote or I'll flip a dice. -------------------   WHOOOOOOOSH! BAAAAANG! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!edit: Camilla's out. That random voter went for Arthur apparently who's already dead. Tae fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 22:08
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Speaking of lovable goobers.
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May 29, 2017 22:19
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Tae posted:What is this random voting, why is Percy suddenly on the cutting block. Why is Azura now getting cut? Why is there a tie. Someone vote or I'll flip a dice. Spots are getting pretty tight. I had some trouble deciding what my third vote would be.
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May 29, 2017 22:56
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i've been voting more or less at random, honestly
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May 29, 2017 22:58
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I've been trying to spread my votes around to keep everyone in play as long as possible. 
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May 29, 2017 23:37
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I only vote for characters whose names start with E.
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May 30, 2017 00:06
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 Azura is suddenly off the team. I guess that's what happens when Leo is forced to deploy.   But if hard pressed, such brutal apes wouldn't think twice about killing him. We should try to keep the peace as long as possible—until we get near Forrest.   So literally nothing will happen until you engage in a fight. I guess the intended strategy is to stack as many characters as possible near Forrest's capture area and barnstorming in. But at this point, no chance with how high the enemy strength is.  There's two breakable walls on the west and northwest side. Maybe to pincer or triple-pincer in that enemy group? I dunno, never did this map before enemies start promoting.  My strategy is to just take on the groups one at a time the ole fashioned way.   Besides, some of you look classy enough to make for even BETTER hostages. Har! Get 'em all, boys!  So a Zerker pops out of this staircase and makes his way towards Forrest. He's got the full 6 move, but he'll take a long time because of all those trees and grass. You have more time than you think.   The first thing to is to clear this group. Selena gets a +HP/STR/SKL/SPD/DEF for her participation in the slauther.   Not so much luck with Soleil, though.   Thankfully, her bad luck didn't transfer to her dad who got a nice +HP/STR/SKL/LCK/DEF level.   Ophelia's going to weaken some Sorcerers on the top while Leo battles and baits the bottom Sorcerers.   Xander having only 26 strength by level 10 seems kinda puny compared to some of the specialized monsters n the team.   That might've been too much overkill as Charlotte only got +HP/STR.   This is actually too much firepower in an open area, so I have to back out and lure them into counterattack alleyway.   Leo takes care of his business and gets another nice level. You know, I would say my Leo is "blessed" and that puts him at 20 speed. Not exactly a world beater even in the best of circumstances.  Another reason to back out is that enemy reinforcements pop out, specifically more Sorcerers and Heroes.   Slowly whittling down the group with potshots.   Getting a little crowded here. Odin will clear the way!   Effie taking advantage of her guard stance to hopefully live through a Sorcerer nuke.   Guess the speed fiesta was too much to hope to continue.   Soleil's speed is actually pretty mediocre, just like her dad. 20 across the board is not so great when you're at level 30.   Effie gets in front of the last real enemy group, while Leo finishes off his kill count: Two Sorcerers, two Generals.  Boy, it took you long enough.   Ophelia learns the ever useless Shadowgift because RIP Nosferatu nerfs.   Just the Generals and Paladins left.   Must really suck to be electrocuted in a metal suit.  Just in case you thought you were running out of time, here's two more turns of him opening the door AND still be one space off reaching Forrest. I would say you have 7 turns to reach him, not including tricks like Elise casting Freeze/Entrap on him.   Problem solved.   If you remember, Gazak was the name that a merc accused Arthur of being. He has Pavise and Certain Blow which is okay if you capture him since he'll eventually learn Gamble.   Horsies are dead.  That boss tile is so annoying   Draconic Curse+Heartseeker is enough to counter that cheaty tile.   Maybe I take back what I said about Soleil if this is the best case scenario for Leo.  So here's yet another awkward moment, brought to you by "rout all enemies." These Paladins have been hanging here all day while the rest of their crew has been murdered.   level 27, 27 strength.  At least 6 of those turns were just positioning with nothing happening 
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May 30, 2017 02:23
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I have actually run out time and had Forrest in danger on Lunatic. I ended up just using an Entrap. (Yeah, wasteful, but honestly I don't think I ever used Entrap for any other part of that playthrough.)
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May 30, 2017 02:58
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I found that turning Leo into a Dark Flier so he can keep his mobility and tome usage helped him out greatly. Especially that +6 speed from the class change alone.
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May 30, 2017 07:01
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Shadowgift could actually be decent if, you know, Fates didn't just have a single loving dark magic tome that was nerfed to oblivion.
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May 30, 2017 07:39
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W.T. Fits posted:I've been trying to spread my votes around to keep everyone in play as long as possible. this one.
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May 30, 2017 07:53
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  But I’ll make good on my promise to head back to my Deeprealm. Don’t think for one moment that I’m leaving to spare your feelings. You’re unworthy of me, Father. I’ll miss Aunt Elise, of course. But I’m sure that SHE will visit me. And so, farewell.Well Leo, at least he isn't actively trying to kill you like Percy. Forrest...  You may not remember—you saved me. As I lay dying, there you were! And then I was fine! I don’t have much. But please, take this. Just a small token of my appreciation. Why, thank you! This broach is beautiful. But I can’t take this. I was only doing my duty. Uh-huh! Yes you will! My whole family would have been dead without you. Wait right here. I’ll get them, and a lot of other people who want to thank you! *leaves* ...  Smooth.  I mean... Er, I mean... Sorry, I can be a bit of a jerk, as Elise so bluntly puts it. That is...indeed a lovely keepsake the villager gave you. And you are the hero here. We...I merely blundered in late. I’ll take your words with me as a keepsake too. I’m sorry. I truly am. I must seem like a stone-hearted father to you. You’re right to say I’m not worthy. That Elise was able to see you as a person of sterling qualities... While I couldn’t? I’m, er, I’m a better person than this. So I like to think. Father? An apology from you? Don’t bother. I really don’t need— Yes, I’m sure you don’t, Son. You’re far stronger than I ever could be. And I’m embarrassed to ask... But I wonder if you’d want to spend more time with your father? I don’t mean in the Deeprealms. I mean here, with me. ...  Ooh, still bitter.  She and I will be fast friends. I might even learn a thing or two about fashion from her. Or she from me. Yay! You’re actually going to come with us, Forrest? Of course. I couldn’t say no to my Aunt Elise.  I’m not going anywhere with you if you keep on with this “Aunt” stuff. Fair enough...Elise. Phew! I’m just NOT ready to grow up THAT much yet. Ah, and who is this fair being of radiant light, mother? Elise, who is this? ...Oh. Oh, I see.  Yes, absolutely. And I give you my solemn vow, Forrest... I’ll learn to be a father worthy of you. Character Overview   Class sets: Starts as Troubadour, Dark Mage, Fighter PSkill: Fierce Counter-When a male enemy triggers the battle, damage +2 Growth Rates HP: 60 STR: 35 MAG: 42.5 SKL: 47.5 SPD: 52.5 LCK: 50 DEF: 22.5 RES: 45 Forrest's PSkill is weird and kinda bad. It's basically worse, specific Riposte on a unit that does not want to be attacked. His good aspects are his high speed growth and very high HP growth. With HP+5 inherited from Charlotte, he actually can survive more non-Mage bouts than Elise, though don't push it. Most importantly, HE'S A HEALER! And pretty good as either Butler or Strategist. Forrest as a Zerker 
Tae fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 17:48
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Um Tea I think you used the wrong picture for Elise's kid.
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May 30, 2017 18:24
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Isn't Elise's child Ophelia?
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May 30, 2017 18:29
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we should make him a butler so he can use the str growth he got from his mom
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May 30, 2017 19:40
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One interesting fact about Forrest is that he will use the female character animations for whatever class he's in. Admittedly, the only way you'd notice this is in the victory poses, but still it's a nice little touch. Also, Tae posted:
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May 30, 2017 20:54
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Ironically, I don't recall Forrest having any supports with Elise, despite this whole side story.
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May 30, 2017 21:37
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Argent Cinereus posted:Ironically, I don't recall Forrest having any supports with Elise, despite this whole side story. Wait, wait wait wait. loving hell, Fates.
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May 30, 2017 21:55
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Omobono posted:Wait, wait wait wait. Possibly worse, since there's at least four characters that have an aunt/uncle they'd probably try to talk to. I'll let the ninja brothers slide since they make it clear they're not all that close. There's also the whole 'not sending the second kid to their cousin's Deeprealm' thing that gets at me.
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May 30, 2017 22:07
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I don't think any of the kids can support first gens other than their parents and Corrin.
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May 30, 2017 22:19
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It was also dumb in Awakening that some couldn't, but at least Tiki got Lucina/Nah supports.
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May 31, 2017 00:04
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Omobono posted:Wait, wait wait wait.
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May 31, 2017 00:09
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