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Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009


HORSESHOE THEORY

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got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

i have to keep reminding myself that 'smersh' was an actual russian intelligence organization and not some gag name used on an episode of get smart.

it was the main villain group James Bond went against in the books, Spectre was invented later for the movies

deadgoon
Dec 4, 2014

by FactsAreUseless
the zuck cone, of shame

ThndrShk2k
Nov 3, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo
Bread Liar
He identifies as Libertarian, and wants a Sanders/Stein ticket for…uh, 2017?

Ron Paul 2014 we can do this guys

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

holy poo poo

UHD
Nov 11, 2006


Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme

Vox Nihili posted:

It's legal in the same way that various forms tax evasion that use aggressive accounting strategies are legal until the law is clarified. It obviously defeats the purpose of the law using straw transactions, and a functioning regulatory arm would stomp it into dust.


Again, 99% of the funds are "allocated" directly to the Clinton Campaign's expenses, including, reportedly, paying people on her payroll, and again, it undermines the entire purpose of the law. I would say that it violates the spirit of the law except that would massively understate just how clearly illegal this all is or should be. The entire purpose of limits on individual campaign contributions is allegedly to reduce the ability of individuals to simply bribe or buy politicians. If they can just hand an entity affiliated with that politician $350k (or much more, in theory, as each state party can accept $10k) with the knowledge that 99% of that $350k will be spent in direct and immediate support of that politician then the law has no meaning.

so the people being paid that were on hillary's payroll were administrating the fund, and that's allowed under the law. anyway, the structure is essentially this - the dnc funds are used to transfer money to state parties. the state parties then build coordinated campaigns that are officially not part of the clinton campaign (no one is employed by hillary for america) but are allowed to coordinate with the national apparatus. the coordinated campaigns just do "get out the vote" because that's an activity states typically (universally?) allow parties to do without running afoul of state campaign finance laws. the gotv efforts work on behalf of all candidates, but obviously the funds are directed to states hillary is competing in. because this is all explicitly allowed under campaign finance law, it's completely kosher. you're right to say "well, if you can just hand an entity affiliated then the law has no meaning," and that's because the supreme court demolished all the laws that existed to keep these kinds of practices in check. as i mentioned before, in 2012 the obama victory fund allowed people to max out up to $75,800 by using essentially the same strategy hillary used, although on a smaller scale. but everyone knew that the $75,800 went entirely to obama, the dnc which would spent it for obama, and then to presidential battleground states to gotv for obama. mccutcheon just allowed them to take the obama strategy and make it even larger.

as a reminder, a politician can actually go to a superpac fundraiser and ask people to donate money, as long as they personally do not ask them to donate an amount higher than $5400 - and this was literally the actual fec ruling. and campaign workers can actually call people and ask them to donate $10 million dollars as long as they say the words "the candidate did not ask me to ask you." again, per the fec. not a deadlock, their actual advisory opinions. because that's what the law actually allows.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

got any sevens posted:

is that really what happened to his body? thats awesome

And then the Red Army made off with what they could recover of his skeleton for positive identification and to serve as a grisly trophy. Stalin had bits of his skull covertly carried about in his entourage for some time before finally tiring of it, after which he had the remains properly cremated and dumped in a Moscow sewer.

deadgoon
Dec 4, 2014

by FactsAreUseless
did baloogan find hitler in the sewer

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Article on Bernicrats getting rat hosed, I guess it helps that things like DNC head are mainly determined by party insiders not regular voters.

For CA state level elections, 2/3 of the votes get decided by super delegates and part insiders.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/29/bernie-sanders-ballot-losses-23888

quote:

After the 2016 election, Sanders faced an even higher-profile setback: The Democratic National Committee installed a prominent Hillary Clinton surrogate, Tom Perez, as its chairman, defeating Rep. Keith Ellison, Sanders’ preferred choice. Sanders-aligned candidates secured victories in state party chair races in Hawaii and Nebraska, but they were rebuffed in California, Florida, Iowa and Maine.

The limitations of the Sanders movement were nowhere more apparent than in the open congressional race in Los Angeles this spring, in a district Sanders carried last year. While Our Revolution has since endorsed Jimmy Gomez, a state assemblyman with a progressive record in Sacramento, two primary challengers with Sanders ties — Carrillo and Arturo Carmona, a deputy in Sanders’ presidential campaign — together received barely more than 10 percent of the vote.

moller
Jan 10, 2007

Swan stole my music and framed me!

deadgoon posted:

did baloogan find hitler in the sewer

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme
even the fundraising digital ads put up by hillary victory fund were far less "aggressive" than what obama did in 2012. she put up ads with her face on it (duh, it's the hillary victory fund) with links to a website to donate under the pretext that it was simply donor acquisition, which is clearly allowed. obama did this:

quote:

WASHINGTON — Some people catching up with their favorite television shows on Hulu, especially people living in swing states and zip codes heavy with the right demographic groups, may have seen ads urging President Barack Obama’s reelection. They likely don’t realize they’ve also seen the latest innovation in campaign spending.

An ad called “Gotta vote” has run frequently on the video-streaming website in southwestern Virginia, home to big student populations at Virginia Tech and Radford University. The ad features students listing a litany of things they “gotta” do — “pay that tuition ... get a job ... move out” — before showing an image of Obama as a voice says, “Gotta keep moving forward.” The camera cuts to Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, as another voice says, “Not back.”

Nothing new there — college students in general are more likely to vote for Obama. What is different is the small print displayed at the end of the ad: “Paid for by Obama Victory Fund.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/barack-obama-online-advertising_n_1932755.html

Zerg Mans
Oct 19, 2006


gently caress which suck zone poster was he

Zerg Mans
Oct 19, 2006

RIP TBS

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Concerned Citizen posted:

even the fundraising digital ads put up by hillary victory fund were far less "aggressive" than what obama did in 2012. she put up ads with her face on it (duh, it's the hillary victory fund) with links to a website to donate under the pretext that it was simply donor acquisition, which is clearly allowed. obama did this:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/barack-obama-online-advertising_n_1932755.html

I know it's all tacitly allowed to happen on some level and it's all quasi-legal and fully normalized, but that really doesn't make it any less awful. Even 15 years ago this poo poo wouldn't fly. Our country is disgusting, our candidates are disgusting, our party is disgusting, more so every year.

I mean honestly, passing fat donation bux back and forth between party entities to launder them is pretty next level even for America. Separating the "Hillary GOTV Presented by the DNC and run by various Hillary employees" from the campaign entity for fundraising purposes is just silly. It all needs to be cut down and rebuilt from the ground up.

Vox Nihili has issued a correction as of 02:53 on May 30, 2017

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008


You were two sides of the same coin. What will you do without him?

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

etalian posted:

Article on Bernicrats getting rat hosed, I guess it helps that things like DNC head are mainly determined by party insiders not regular voters.

For CA state level elections, 2/3 of the votes get decided by super delegates and part insiders.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/29/bernie-sanders-ballot-losses-23888
it's really condescending when hillfolk keep maintaining that superdelegates would never overturn the popular vote if a scenario came up where the establishment candidate lost when that is almost entirely their sole reason for existence

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Concerned Citizen posted:

Anyway, it's not illegal
the democrats screech as they stuff plutocrat money into their pockets as fast as they can

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme

Vox Nihili posted:

You were two sides of the same coin. What will you do without him?

two sides of the same horseshoe, you mean

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Don't worry, soon we might have 40% fewer superdelegates or whatever. Now that's progress!

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Aurubin posted:

Why should I pay for my employees' insurance instead of buying a lake house? I watched that Joe Pesci movie where he was a slumlord and he did ok! Mind, I stopped about halfway through but...

loquacius posted:

this guy reminds me of that lady who was incensed at the idea she might have to pay for her employees' healthcare at the Sanders/Cruz healthcare debate, but I don't think she got shut down as beautifully as this, unfortunately
to be fair, small business owners shouldn't have to. the current policy of health insurance in the united states is really bad for small businesses compared to the alternative of a medicare-for-all like system and definitely favors larger businesses. the terrible healthcare policies pushed by the democrats and republicans is the single largest economic drain in the entire country.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

comedyblissoption posted:

it's really condescending when hillfolk keep maintaining that superdelegates would never overturn the popular vote if a scenario came up where the establishment candidate lost when that is almost entirely their sole reason for existence

Yeah for the recent california state party election a regular vote cast amount to 1/3 of the vote, the rest got decided by party insiders.

Ellis was ratfucked by the centrist political class since all the votes come from the state level/super-delegates which are also heavily tied to donor interests.

The obama white also got involved to make sure Ellis would not win the election and instead the Hillary surrogate Perez won the election.

Too bad the US doesn't have a proportional representation so Berniecrats could separate themselves from the corrupt donor democrat political class and have their own party.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

comedyblissoption posted:

to be fair, small business owners shouldn't have to. the current policy of health insurance in the united states is really bad for small businesses compared to the alternative of a medicare-for-all like system and definitely favors larger businesses. the terrible healthcare policies pushed by the democrats and republicans is the single largest economic drain in the entire country.

Yeah a single payer system would be the best system for small businesses and any sort of business since US health insurance is the worst in the whole developed world in terms of value.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Concerned Citizen posted:

two sides of the same horseshoe, you mean

The bad posting horseshoe theory.

Zerg Mans
Oct 19, 2006

Concerned Citizen posted:

two sides of the same horseshoe, you mean

HORSESHOES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ
this is why campaign finance reform is dumb: the money always finds a way. instead we should have publicly financed floors for all congressional races so that each party can field a candidate with a reasonable chance of getting their message heard by voters without having to rely on the fickle nature of the central party committee that can't figure out why nobody outside of D.C. likes them.

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme
100% publicly financed elections imo

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

Concerned Citizen posted:

100% publicly financed elections imo

you can make the public financing floor high enough that it wouldn't matter but there's no way you're going to stop outside spending.

and you don't need to anyway. as we saw in 2016 there are obvious diminishing returns on spending.

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme

Joementum posted:

you can make the public financing floor high enough that it wouldn't matter but there's no way you're going to stop outside spending.

guillotines work well

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



guillotine any person the moment their net worth exceeds 1 million dollars, you say

Serf
May 5, 2011


Shear Modulus posted:

guillotine any person the moment their net worth exceeds 1 million dollars, you say

just put a cap on it like ol huey long suggested

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Huey Long did nothing wrong

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Serf posted:

just put a cap on it like ol huey long suggested

the best kind of cap: a decap

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004

etalian posted:

Huey Long did nothing wrong

The Kingfish
Oct 21, 2015


etalian posted:

Huey Long did nothing wrong

His one crime was not going far enough.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k
EVERYBODY SUK ZONE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTGrV58wec

docbeard
Jul 19, 2011

It does sadly turn out that "illegal" and "I don't think people should be allowed to do this" aren't the same thing.

Yet.

ThndrShk2k
Nov 3, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo
Bread Liar

zegermans posted:

HORSESHOES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY
They do now

fits my needs
Jan 1, 2011

Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/liberalism_txt/status/869034820072071168

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Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007


Destroy them all

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