Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Araganzar posted:

Hi if anyone else would ever like to complain about not getting gear I'd just like to set the bar for you:

I am on D11. Also no wands, no evocables, no heal potions, no ego body armor, no buckler. Shows how long you can ride an electrocution weapon early with absolutely nothing.

a good player would have picked octopode, this is your fault

# ? May 29, 2017 06:28

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# ? May 14, 2024 16:34

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

shouldve gone Ru and sacrificed a hand

# ? May 29, 2017 07:08

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Sage Grimm posted:

Never open door vault in Hell. There is nothing there except a whole lot of cursing and suffering.

And hatches!

Internet Kraken posted:

Yeah even if I've got an amazing character going I'd never open door vault, especially in Hell. That's just asking for YASD.

Especially after all the effort put in to saving this character / getting it here (Trog wrath, melee zig, etc.). And now I won't even leave a cool ghost, it'll be very ignorable.

jon joe posted:

I had something similar, except instead of doorvault it was a smoke demon hallway in Pan, and also my Gargoyle had absurd stats that let it cast Tornado in GDS.

Worst part was I didn't even need to walk like a moron, I could have just casted swiftness like I did to get into the vault. I just forgot.

Hello Arga / hubris twin!

Yeah, ways to not die that came to mind immediately afterwards (or even during, but "eh, I can tab them") for me:

zigfig (even in second zig, floor 1 should make for a safer place - though I actually forgot to carry these)
blinking
second holyword (would be dangerous on that turn, but could have been done earlier)
haste / might at the start (or in the middle even)
sanctuary/ambrosia
don't open doorvault

At least my current DgAE is going OK - probably not aiming for extended, but just picked up CBL in Elf so well-armed for lair runes.

# ? May 29, 2017 08:54

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

code:

 Sonja is no longer paralysed.
 Sonja unwields an uncursed blowgun.
 Sonja wields an uncursed dagger of distortion.
 Its appearance distorts for a moment.
 Sonja hits you but does no damage.
 Space bends around you.
 Sonja hits you but does no damage. x2
 You are cast into the Abyss!

# ? May 29, 2017 09:29

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

for the love of jesus christ, fr: remove evokable/wand troves they are so loving useless now aaaghhhHHHh

# ? May 29, 2017 11:46

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I used to get excited about wands.

I don't really get excited about wands any more.

# ? May 29, 2017 11:47

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I get excited about wands much more often now that scattershot and clouds exist

also still am very happy to find confusion/para

# ? May 29, 2017 12:25

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Does an amulet of faith reduce the cooldown on Uskayaw's mass paralysis/pain bond effects, like how it makes you get more gifts, or does it just not mean much for Uskayaw?

# ? May 29, 2017 13:47

Average Bear: Apr 4, 2010

Do y'all prefer EV or AC?

# ? May 29, 2017 13:53

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Average Bear posted:

Do y'all prefer EV or AC?

AC unless I already have a ton of it.

# ? May 29, 2017 14:07

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

AC is bae C

# ? May 29, 2017 15:22

Average Bear: Apr 4, 2010

Used to be a big EV guy but being coming around to liking AC more

# ? May 29, 2017 15:26

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Stacking AC is 150% better than stacking evasion, spellcasting is a trap, get a crossbow and be like ????????? as you confidently stride through everything and then die in tomb

# ? May 29, 2017 16:08

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

What rc file edit do I make to not pick up identified wands? I don't mind grabbing new ones I haven't seen before, but it gets really annoying late game do always be dropping auto-grabbed wands, especially when the only wand 90% of my characters need are a singular wand of digging.

# ? May 29, 2017 16:36

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

It seems like this thread swings between saying evasion is pro-mode and saying AC is godlike. WHICH IS IT

# ? May 29, 2017 16:37

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

FulsomFrank posted:

It seems like this thread swings between saying evasion is pro-mode and saying AC is godlike. WHICH IS IT

AC is so much better it's surprising the game doesn't give you a warning when you turn on dodging for the first time.

I have a TeTm (-2 Transmute -3 Earth) in statue form for some ungodly reason and I have an rElec mutation. Should I get into Dragon or Hydra Form? Or just focus on kicking rear end in statue form and using those levels for stuff like Silence and DMSL...? Hydra form looks bad with low skill even with 31 int.

I would usually want one of them for when I need to move faster but with Chei that's not a huge issue. I hear statform has been nerfed the last couple releases though...

code:

araganzar the Martial Artist (Tengu Transmuter)    Turns: 24462, Time: 01:27:43
Health: 84/84      AC: 15    Str: 26    XL:     14   Next: 78%
Magic:  32/32      EV: 25    Int: 31    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   746        SH: 19    Dex: 36    Spells: 6/24 levels left
 
rFire    . . .     SeeInvis .   S - staff of wizardry {wiz+, !a}
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   O - +2 buckler {rN+}
rNeg     + . .     Faith    .   F - +3 scale mail {rC+}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   (helmet restricted)
rElec    +         Reflect  +   z - +1 cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   (no gloves)
MR       ++...                  (boots unavailable)
Stlth    ..........             m - +5 amulet of reflection
Regen    0.3/turn               T - ring "Numew" {MP+9 Dex+4 Stlth-}
MPRegen  0.3/turn               v - ring of protection from magic {MR+, !d}
 
A: beak, talons 3, large bone plates 1, yellow scales 1, blink, electricity
resistance, able to fly 2

# ? May 29, 2017 16:48

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

they're both good and you want both of them but AC is definitely better and you want more of it

# ? May 29, 2017 16:48

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Wait, what? We've been steadily moving towards AC > ALL from a very moderate stance. The only time EV gets some limelight is when someone has a lot of AC already and they're wondering how to proceed from there. It all boils down to about the same reduction of damage over the long run, but high AC tends to be less swingy in moment to moment encounters than high EV so it's preferred when you're trying to reduce dice rolls.

# ? May 29, 2017 16:50

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

As far as I'm concerned, EV is something you get as a bonus when you're playing a race who can wear heavy armor without losing dodge.

That said, I'm also one of those diehard "SH is always worth it if you have deflection" weirdos, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

Edit Oh, right, forgot about riposte. Yeah, if you're going Long Blades, EV starts to look a lot more appealing.

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 16:54 on May 29, 2017

# ? May 29, 2017 16:50

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I do actually really like playing Enchanter type characters but when I'm just trying to win or don't have the brainpower to play something more involved I'll always be going HAM

Also, recently I have almost always been going shield->large shield whenever possible. if you're not casting spells and you get a fairly good 1H weapon it's almost always worth it imo and I will switch from medium to large shield at like 10 shields skill.
SH is really good in general and having another layer of defenses enemies need to get through makes you so so much tankier. even if your other defenses aren't great you become so beefy.

PMush Perfect posted:

Edit Oh, right, forgot about riposte. Yeah, if you're going Long Blades, EV starts to look a lot more appealing.

The extra damage for higher EV with riposte is really bad for the cost, so unless you would already be going more EV instead of AC due to wanting lighter armor bc of spells you should not really skill your defenses around it.

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 29, 2017

# ? May 29, 2017 16:55

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

IMO AC is only as good at your GDR. 40 AC isn't that great if you managed to get there wearing ring mail (but think about how strong you'd be wearing plate armor!)

# ? May 29, 2017 17:00

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Araganzar posted:

AC is so much better it's surprising the game doesn't give you a warning when you turn on dodging for the first time.

I have a TeTm (-2 Transmute -3 Earth) in statue form for some ungodly reason and I have an rElec mutation. Should I get into Dragon or Hydra Form? Or just focus on kicking rear end in statue form and using those levels for stuff like Silence and DMSL...? Hydra form looks bad with low skill even with 31 int.

I would usually want one of them for when I need to move faster but with Chei that's not a huge issue. I hear statform has been nerfed the last couple releases though...

I typically find dragon form better than statue form in most situations. The extra damage output combined with faster attacks typically translates to less damage taken, in my experience. I've also never really relied on it without ozo's armor, and I don't know if you have that. I haven't played either since the last big change to form damage, but it seems that hit statue form much harder than dragon form. I've never gotten much use out of hydra form, but I've never gone out of my way to cast it at very high power, either. My experience is that it doesn't do enough damage to make up for the squishiness, and the hp regain is far too unreliable.

# ? May 29, 2017 17:06

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Heithinn Grasida posted:

I don't know if you have that. I haven't played either since the last big change to form damage, but it seems that hit statue form much harder than dragon form. I've never gotten much use out of hydra form, but I've never gone out of my way to cast it at very high power, either. My experience is that it doesn't do enough damage to make up for the squishiness, and the hp regain is far too unreliable.

The -2 transmutations apt makes dragon form slightly less appealing but that's good information and I do have Ozos. Right now I decided to get Silence, Fear, and Invis as they will all help with chei survival. But I think I will get into Dragon Form for vaults maybe - if I live that long with Tengu hp and Araganzar luck...

edit: wow, I needed something for orb spiders and I had forgotten about old Sticks to Snakes. Now that it doesn't require you to wield anything it's insane with 32 int.

That's 2 casts. Pretty awesome for a level 2 spell considering I have 500 arrows at this opint.

Araganzar fucked around with this message at 19:07 on May 29, 2017

# ? May 29, 2017 18:30

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

tote up a bags posted:

a good player would have picked octopode, this is your fault

I took your advice and played a pode for my very next game:

code:

v - amulet "Gaozel" {Harm *Corrode *Drain rPois rN+}
n - ring of positive energy {rN+}
+   A - ring of loudness (curse) {Stlth-}
z - ring of ice (curse) {rC+, rF-}

Got the amulet out of an evil-rear end transporter vault that blew up my consumables. Also got another ring of ice and a ring of -3 evasion.

That's why I had when I died anyway. Let me just say harm and corrode are not ideal egos for an octopode.

# ? May 29, 2017 19:36

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Prism posted:

Does an amulet of faith reduce the cooldown on Uskayaw's mass paralysis/pain bond effects, like how it makes you get more gifts, or does it just not mean much for Uskayaw?

Dunno if it affects the cooldowns on those things, but faith is ridiculously good for Uskayaw. It makes you build up piety way faster so you can be much more liberal with your abilities. Furthermore, the nature of Uskayaw means that removing it doesn't really carry much of a penalty. So unlike with other gods you can swap a faith amulet out if there's a situation where another amulet would serve you better.

Uskayaw is a super cool god that more people should play. DON'T gently caress IT UP DEVS! :byodood:

someone awful. posted:

for the love of jesus christ, fr: remove evokable/wand troves they are so loving useless now aaaghhhHHHh

Are you saying you don't want to give trove 8 potions of heal wounds to get a wand of random effects? :shepface:

# ? May 29, 2017 19:55

Wales Grey: Jun 20, 2012

someone awful. posted:

for the love of jesus christ, fr: remove evokable/wand troves they are so loving useless now aaaghhhHHHh

Reintroduce wands of heal wounds and haste, replace all wands with rods. If someone is concerned that refillable haste/cure wounds devalues Elvyrion or is "too easy" make the two limited evokables like lamps or box of beasts.

Prism posted:

Does an amulet of faith reduce the cooldown on Uskayaw's mass paralysis/pain bond effects, like how it makes you get more gifts, or does it just not mean much for Uskayaw?

Faith boosts piety gain and reduces gift/effect timers, so yes its works well with Uskayaw.

Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 20:29 on May 29, 2017

# ? May 29, 2017 20:21

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Cool, thanks!

Another Uskayaw question: I know Invocation heavily scales the power of the active abilities, but does it make the pain bond and mass paralysis abilities last longer?

edit: I did not realize Stomp did this much damage

Prism fucked around with this message at 20:54 on May 29, 2017

# ? May 29, 2017 20:51

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Yes, the duration of pain bond and paralysis is tied to your invocations skill.

The damage on stomp is a bit weird. It does damage based on the monster's current amount of HP and an amount of damage that is influenced by your invocations skill. This makes stomp effective against monsters with high HP pools as the proportional damage will chew through large chunks of health. It becomes less effective on monsters after their health is reduced to about half though as the proportional damage becomes much smaller. But once your invocations is high, it becomes a great way to finish off monsters at low HP with the second part of the attack.

# ? May 29, 2017 21:12

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Internet Kraken posted:

Yes, the duration of pain bond and paralysis is tied to your invocations skill.

The damage on stomp is a bit weird. It does damage based on the monster's current amount of HP and an amount of damage that is influenced by your invocations skill. This makes stomp effective against monsters with high HP pools as the proportional damage will chew through large chunks of health. It becomes less effective on monsters after their health is reduced to about half though as the proportional damage becomes much smaller. But once your invocations is high, it becomes a great way to finish off monsters at low HP with the second part of the attack.

I've also found it of use at clearing out crowds when pain bond pops up (this came up a lot in Orc).

Now if I could just get a better one-hander than a +0 flail of freezing or an unbranded morningstar, I'd be very happy.

# ? May 29, 2017 21:19

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

AC is the best because it has the least amount of things that can reduce/bring it to zero (pretty much just corrosion) compared to all the ways you can lose your EV and SH to random poo poo.

# ? May 29, 2017 22:53

Thalamas: Dec 5, 2003; Sup?

chukamok posted:

I added the # TEAMCAPTAIN Thalamas line to my rc file, but I'm not showing up on the clan page.

code:

Purple For The Win

1. Thalamas
2. wulfric
3. fooot
4. chukamok
5. fugaros
6. Kautzman

# TEAMCAPTAIN Thalamas

Well, the reason it wasn't working was all me. Hadn't added anyone to MY RC file after initially setting it up. I think it should be straightened out now.

On a more positive note, I'm getting pretty close to a 2-win streak with a Necromancer Hybrid of Hep.

# ? May 29, 2017 23:02

Canine Blues Arooo: Jan 7, 2008; when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with; Grimey Drawer

I probably bitch about this at least once every thread, but man... Casters have become so miserable to play that I'm probably not attempting a 'pure' caster again until something changes.

# ? May 30, 2017 01:18

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

Actually, the game has become miserable to play in general.

# ? May 30, 2017 03:14

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

actually, nearly everything that has been changed has been an unambiguous positive and the game is a lot better to play both casually and seriously now

# ? May 30, 2017 03:33

Devlan Mud: Apr 10, 2006; I'll hear your stories when we come back, alright?

Holy moley is new Tomb awful. Instead of stairdancing your only choice is to prime a teleport when going down to T:2 and T:3 and hope you land in a relatively unoccupied area before you get the poo poo murdered out of you by dozens of rear end in a top hat mummies.

I've got my Golden Rune for the tourney and I'm never going back there again, so uh, job well done I guess??

# ? May 30, 2017 03:37

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

You can also keep doing loops to the uphatches through the side doors killing some mummies each time through if you're beefy enough.

# ? May 30, 2017 03:51

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

There is a faded altar of an unknown god here.
You cannot tell which god this altar belongs to. Convert to them anyway?
Xom accepts your prayer!
_Xom welcomes you!

nice i won

# ? May 30, 2017 03:56

Emmideer: Oct 20, 2011; Lovely night, no?; Grimey Drawer

Also recommended for Tomb: Worshiping TSO and pressing buttons that kill things

# ? May 30, 2017 03:56

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

I won. First time winning with Uskayaw, first win of the tournament, first win since 0.19 or 18 (I forget). I'm not very good.

code:

Almacia the Ecstatic (Minotaur Fighter)            Turns: 65410, Time: 04:21:28

Health: 237/237    AC: 45    Str: 26    XL:     27
Magic:  35/35      EV: 22    Int:  5    God:    Uskayaw [*.....]
Gold:   1442       SH: 11    Dex: 23    Spells: 26/26 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis .   I - +9 demon whip (freeze)
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   E - +3 warlock's mirror {reflect}
rNeg     + . .     Faith    +   Y - +5 gold dragon scales
rPois    +         Spirit   .   l - +2 hat {MR+}
rElec    .         Reflect  +   w - +4 dragonskin cloak
rCorr    .         Harm     .   q - +2 pair of gloves
MR       ++++.                  B - +2 pair of boots
Stlth    ..........             j - amulet of faith
Regen    0.5/turn               g - ring of Caobuid {rN+ MR+ Str+5}
MPRegen  0.3/turn               T - ring of protection from fire

@: no status effects
A: retaliatory headbutt, fangs 1, horns 2, repulsion field 1, frail 1, low mp 1
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, abyssal, gossamer
a: Stomp, Renounce Religion

Stomp is good when pain bond goes off and as an opener, line pass is good for moving around and confusing people, paralysis and pain bond is good always, and Grand Finale dealt with a lot of big threats. Honestly I probably got the most use out of the paralysis and pain bond effects, but Grand Finale was top-tier whenever I pulled it out (eleven times, apparently). I like Uskayaw.

In conclusion,

code:

 28323 | Spider:4 | Noticed Mara
 28324 | Spider:4 | Killed Mara

Prism fucked around with this message at 04:19 on May 30, 2017

# ? May 30, 2017 04:13

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# ? May 14, 2024 16:34

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

IronicDongz posted:

actually, nearly everything that has been changed has been an unambiguous positive and the game is a lot better to play both casually and seriously now

I mean, I agree with this, but it's really frustrating that the devs keep loving with stuff that isn't a major problem when issues like 'all of extended sucks' and 'heavy armor trivializes the game' and 'food and identification are barely mechanics anymore' exist.

# ? May 30, 2017 04:28

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