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Slanderer posted:poo poo, this was over a month ago, but replying anyway: You don't? Richard had that fancy armor and the tool that let him covertly open gates. He also didn't use any magic that Alex noticed in the fight and instead preferred to use a gun. Also earlier in the book when Alex first meets with Richard and considers killing him there isn't evidence of Richard doing anything magical to stop it. I think his gimmick is going to be that he can make his own magic stuff and basically be evil magic batman. I think we can rule out him being a mind mage because he needed the dreamstone which acts as a mind focus and I'm not sure why he would need that if he was already a mind mage. However I suppose he could be a diviner as well. Maybe we will see more in the next book.
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May 25, 2017 18:36
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RE: Alex Verus Richard probably is a Diviner just like Alex theorized. He relies on gadgetry just like Alex, though highly amped up. There's plenty of times when Richard says something that could be taken as foreshadowing - especially at the end, in the vault, where he outlines how everyone is going to die. Nothing overt, but enough to make you wonder. Even more, Alex has fought and won against every major type of mage out there EXCEPT for diviner - he's never even faced one. Thematically that sort of a fight is coming AND what better way than to have to fight a dark mirror of himself in the form of his feared once and future boss?
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May 25, 2017 18:48
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While not strictly urban fantasy, I feel this belongs here due to tie-ins to his urban fantasy series: Craig Schaefer's Revanche Cycle has been collected into one ebook and is discounted to 99c until Monday.
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May 27, 2017 00:36
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Ornamented Death posted:While not strictly urban fantasy, I feel this belongs here due to tie-ins to his urban fantasy series: Craig Schaefer's Revanche Cycle has been collected into one ebook and is discounted to 99c until Monday. Is it a worthwhile buy? I mean 99c so I assume so...
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May 27, 2017 00:51
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ImpAtom posted:Is it a worthwhile buy? I mean 99c so I assume so... Definite maybe. Cashwise, gently caress yeah, it's 99c. Timewise, depends. On one hand, it's different from his UF stuff (he wrote it because he had a story he really wanted to tell and he wanted to push himself outside his usual style and learn to be a better writer), so if you want more of his UF, this ain't that. That said, I think it's the best thing he's written. And we will get nothing else like it from him, because it was a total flop (he's said he sells something like forty copies of Faust/Harmony books for every copy of a Revanche book.) It's also Robin Hobb levels of depressing at points which may or may not be a minus.
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May 27, 2017 02:41
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It's easily the best thing he's ever written. Head and shoulders above the Faust books and so much better than the Harmony Black books that I'd almost think that they were written by a completely different author.
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May 27, 2017 04:11
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Khizan posted:It's easily the best thing he's ever written. Head and shoulders above the Faust books and so much better than the Harmony Black books that I'd almost think that they were written by a completely different author. 
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May 27, 2017 04:29
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Mortanis posted:RE: Alex Verus Yeah, he's either a Diviner or a Chance mage He uses items only because he lacks any other external magical abilities. Throughout the fight he performs a number of mundane but improbably perfect maneuvers with split-second timing and accuracy. Either Diviner or Chance mage also fits his personality: he's smugly complacent and arrogant in every situation because he either knows the outcome ahead of time or knows that any plan he comes up with will be executed with perfect competence because he's generating his own luck.
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May 27, 2017 23:17
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Finally got around to catching up on the genre and burned through all of Alex Verus over the weekend, now on to Daniel Faust. I liked Verus, it seemed like the author basically read Dresden and set out to do the same thing but better, by keeping the character weaker, giving him abilities that lent themselves to caper/heist type storylines so he could stick with the early-Dresden-noir type stuff rather than the late-Dresden power fantasies, and making sure to burn out any magic items that started turning into too much of a crutch. So far, Faust is impressing me less. It's not bad but the las vegas setting and card based magic invites comparisons to Tim Power's Last Call and that's just not a fair match.
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May 30, 2017 04:59
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yeah, he's either a Diviner or a Chance mage It seems like he's a diviner, yeah. I take it you're assuming the thread-line powers he was using were derived from the suit of armor? Still, there seems to be some variation even among mages of the same school, so I doubt his powers are exactly the same as Verus'. He might be better at long range planning, rather than short-range. What I wonder is if Diviners inherently can't predict each other (perhaps there's a feedback loop sometimes if both have their powers active?). Verus doesn't see Drakh appear into the vault while he's checking futures, and Drakh doesn't get the number of people Verus will kill right in the final fight -- he guesses 0-3 and Verus kills 4. I think the big question with Drakh is where he went for ten years and why. That's a long time in a setting where mages don't seem to have extended lifespans -- this isn't Dresden Files where everyone's 500 years old.
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May 30, 2017 05:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Finally got around to catching up on the genre and burned through all of Alex Verus over the weekend, now on to Daniel Faust. I find (spoiler for late-ish Verus) how completely hosed verus is, being so completely outclassed and powerless, really compelling reading. I hope the author has a plan for the series. e: imo it's tied with rivers for best of the genre, especially since dresden now spends half the books talking about harry's winter boners
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May 30, 2017 05:07
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awesmoe posted:
Rivers is still my overall favorite because it has the sharpest, cleverest prose style and Aaronovitch is absolutely unafraid to go balls-deep into the details, from how the London Met works to making sure that not only do all the characters speak in slightly different slang depending on their social class and background, but even the ghosts speak in period-appropriate, class-appropriate, region-appropriate slang for the period and region and class that the ghost was from. Aaronovitch puts the urbis into urban fantasy. That said Dresden still probably has the highest highs -- the opening line of Blood Rites, the closing sequence of Dead Beat. But when Dresden is bad it's pretty bad. I've only read through Verus once but it seemed more consistent overall -- never quite as good as the best moments of Dresden, but never quite as cringey, either.
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May 30, 2017 05:19
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Azuth0667 posted:You don't? Here's the point of confusion: You suggested Richard was an Enchanter---a charm mage (which is really a lovely type of mage in these books, basically being a subtler and shittier mind mage). I'm not really sure anything hints at him being an enchanter. While it would be "fitting" for Richard to be a diviner, that would be kind of lame, but it would fit into what everyone's worried about---that a diviner like Verus could become scary powerful by trying to accumulate power, instead of just reacting defensively. Nothing about the dreamstone prohibits him being a mind mage, AFAIK. The dream stone lets you physically enter Elsewhere (which mind mages can't do), along with letting you commune with imbued items or w/e. I forget the specifics, but I thought that a Mind mage's abilities with imbued items was slightly different than what Alex could do with the dream stone?
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May 30, 2017 05:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Doesn't Verus weigh the probabilities of trying to murder Drakh in his office? I've been wondering how the author would write a diviner vs. diviner confrontation---right now, Alex's powers are basically "predict what is definitely going to happen, unless the author wants to make it dramatic in which case the probabilities shift suddenly and now someone's going to kill Alex!!!" Didn't one book have Verus be unable to predict a flipped coin or something (which is hilariously deterministic, once its in the air)? I never thought the author was always great at understanding the ramifications of predicting the future in the way they describe (or at least they're sometimes bad at conveying it).
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May 30, 2017 05:33
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Slanderer posted:Here's the point of confusion: I read the post as using enchanter in the more ubiquitous sense: A mage who specializes in creating magic items. I don't remember Alex specifically guessing Richard might be an Enchanter, but I wouldn't be surprised if he expressed the thought at some point.
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May 30, 2017 06:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That said Dresden still probably has the highest highs -- the opening line of Blood Rites, the closing sequence of Dead Beat. But when Dresden is bad it's pretty bad. I've only read through Verus once but it seemed more consistent overall -- never quite as good as the best moments of Dresden, but never quite as cringey, either. I would agree with this. The highs are high but the lows are flagrant. Verus is the better experience, Rivers is the most well-written, but Dresden is just... fun. Energetic. Really hoping the next book is more Cold Days, less Skin Game.
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May 30, 2017 06:42
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Slanderer posted:Didn't one book have Verus be unable to predict a flipped coin or something (which is hilariously deterministic, once its in the air)? IIRC, it is that Verus can't predict a flipped coin or a rolled die until it's been thrown. Once it's thrown, it's deterministic and he can predict it, but there are too many variables leading up to the actual throw for him to narrow it down and some of them are based on human choices like when to release and how to hold it and whatever. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Rivers is still my overall favorite because it has the sharpest, cleverest prose style and Aaronovitch is absolutely unafraid to go balls-deep into the details, from how the London Met works to making sure that not only do all the characters speak in slightly different slang depending on their social class and background, but even the ghosts speak in period-appropriate, class-appropriate, region-appropriate slang for the period and region and class that the ghost was from. Aaronovitch puts the urbis into urban fantasy. I think that Verus is probably my overall favorite right now, almost entirely on the basis of the protagonist. I like that he's not a combat powerhouse. I like that his dark past is actually dark, enough so that the people who distrust him based on it have actually have a good case for it. I like that he gets called out on his poo poo regularly, and I like that his fuckups have real consequences for him. Also, I really like that he doesn't have a literal angel coming down to reassure him that he's a good guy despite those mistakes. The more I read other UF series, the more I dislike Uriel. I'm also coming to dislike Michael for similar reason. Michael's main role, aside from combat scenes, is basically just being Super Unbelievably Good so that he can approve of Dresden and so lend him an aura of artificial Goodness. Pax Arcana is honestly my #2 right now. Dresden Files comes in third and Rivers of London ends up at 4th almost entirely because I really just don't care for Peter Grant at all. He's such an unbearable twit and it is frustrating because he is literally the worst and least interesting character in the series. I don't care about Grant versus May in the parking garage, show me Nightingale already.
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May 30, 2017 06:43
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Someone sell me on Polansky's A City Dreaming? I loved his Low Town books but I'm ten chapters into this, they're completely unconnected and the UF elements read like something out of Simon R. Green. Is there a payoff?
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May 30, 2017 07:31
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Dresden really suffers from not being willing to genuinely go bad but wanting the drama of going bad. The Winter Knight thing is just a huge drag that adds nothing to the series but more excuses to write creepy rapey dialogue. Any serious consequence of it is neatly brushed aside. He isn't alienated from his friends or family, the White Council is getting smoothed over by the Gatekeeper, basically everything that isn't "Harry sure thinks about rape a lot" is a non-starter. Even Mab having a hold on him is meaningless because she keeps letting him get away with poo poo which just makes it seem like she's bluffing nonstop and Harry calls her on it enough to make her less frightening.
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May 30, 2017 08:39
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Not sure what my favourite series is, since I haven't read a couple of the big ones (haven't read Verus, Faust or Pax Arcana). Of those I've read, I rank Diogenes Club first, provided it counts as UF, then Rivers second after it, then probably O'Malley's books insofar as they count as a series, then Laundry Files (it used to be number two back when Rivers was number one for me) probably in a tie with Dresden. Bone Street Rhumba goes in there somewhere but I'm honestly not sure where. I keep meaning to re-read Dresden from the start but I've never quite been able to muster the enthusiasm. I suppose as I move further away from my first reading of the series, it starts looking more and more like it was more a gateway drug for me than anything else. I won't know until I try it again.
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May 30, 2017 13:05
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So I read a few chapters of Revanche, and it kind of confirms something I'd felt after reading through three Daniel Faust novels: Craig Schaefer is a mediocre writer who would benefit a lot from slowing the gently caress down. (Which, of course, he isn't going to until someone forces him to. Unfortunately, that just means he's going to continue to poo poo out mediocrity like clockwork.)
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May 30, 2017 15:07
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It's weird to me that people don't like Peter Grant. He's an absent minded nerd trying to make good, who's finally found something he's good at. He's not a jerk, he's not particularly obnoxious, he's a bit goony sometimes but to nowhere near the extent that Dresden is.
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May 30, 2017 15:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's weird to me that people don't like Peter Grant. He's an absent minded nerd trying to make good, who's finally found something he's good at. He's not a jerk, he's not particularly obnoxious, he's a bit goony sometimes but to nowhere near the extent that Dresden is. He's okay, but the magical world around him feels like it crumples under any degree of scrutiny while the actual London parts are very real. Which makes it unfortunate the books largely deal with the magical stuff tbh. Sort of a reverse Dresden in that sense 
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May 30, 2017 15:27
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Slanderer posted:Here's the point of confusion: Ah I see: I had thought being an enchanter meant that the mage had talents for making magical items. That dreamstone he gave Richard, according to Arachne, was basically for dominating and controlling things. The master plan is probably something to do with using that stone to control Anne who then can control the djinn. It's Richard's way of getting around the requirement of having empathy for the use of the djinn's wish magic to not be deleterious. It's also why Richard wanted Alex again since Alex has empathy for magical creatures.
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May 30, 2017 15:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's weird to me that people don't like Peter Grant. He's an absent minded nerd trying to make good, who's finally found something he's good at. He's not a jerk, he's not particularly obnoxious, he's a bit goony sometimes but to nowhere near the extent that Dresden is. Peter is absolutely a jerk. I mean that's not bad writing, it's 100% intentional, but he is. We're introduced to him by the fact that he's a genuinely lovely cop who seems to have no interest in improving . (And again, this is text to the story.) He stumbles into a career entirely by being the only person possible to get it and spends longer still before he's actually willing to treat it as a job and not a cool game he discovered. He's gotten a little better but he's still not particularly engaging. The problem I have with him is what was stated above: He is almost universally the least interesting and least likable person in the room, in any given scene. He just doesn't have many interesting conflicts or personality traits. He's overshadowed constantly by side characters and most of his villains. Which is partially intentional as he's the 'normal' view into the magical world but he's got just enough personality, backstory and hang-ups to make him not work as a bland nobody. The writing also seems to think I find his behavior a lot more charming than I actually do. I could see a talented character actor pulling him off and making what he did work. I just don't think the writing, especially as narrated by him, does it. I can see HOW Peter would be a likable character but the book doesn't pull it off, at least to me. And I could ignore not being likable if I thought he was a poo poo in an interesting way but I lost patience with his particular brand of manchild several books in but without him actually doing anything that got me engaged in the character. The rest of the RoL cast is interesting enough to carry it but still.
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May 30, 2017 15:41
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If the Garrett P.I. Series isn't yalls' favorite I don't know what you're doing with your life
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May 30, 2017 18:24
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I feel the Peter Grant novels would be easily forgettable and purely mediocre had I read them instead of doing the audiobook. Kobna Holdbrook-Smith does an exceptional job at making me give a poo poo about a borderline-idiot doing Police work by using 0 Level cantrip spells. I enjoy the Dresden audiobooks, and like Marsters well enough, but the Peter Grant audiobooks are completely night and day with regards to how they come across. I can't imagine reading them but the audiobooks are fun as hell. There's not a lot of books I feel are elevated by the narration, but the Grant novels are in that category. If people are having trouble reading them, give the audio version a go.
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May 30, 2017 18:41
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Drakh could be a fate mage. They do exist according to posts on Jacka's blog. Like Chance mages, but generally weaker and with more control. Blog posts also seem to verify that multiple diviners give feedback effects, because they're making decisions based on each other's decisions, etc. All those posts are in character as Luna though.
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May 30, 2017 18:47
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Mortanis posted:I feel the Peter Grant novels would be easily forgettable and purely mediocre had I read them instead of doing the audiobook. Kobna Holdbrook-Smith does an exceptional job at making me give a poo poo about a borderline-idiot doing Police work by using 0 Level cantrip spells. I enjoy the Dresden audiobooks, and like Marsters well enough, but the Peter Grant audiobooks are completely night and day with regards to how they come across. I can't imagine reading them but the audiobooks are fun as hell. I admit that I'd probably be completely off Dresden if not for Marsters. He's basically the only thing that vaguely manages to sell some of the awful awful writing bits.
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May 30, 2017 18:59
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I finally finished The Rook this weekend. Wow! It was fantastic. I'm eagerly awaiting the sequel to arrive. Is there a third in the works?NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:... Dresden ...Really hoping the next book is more Cold Days, less Skin Game. I thought Skin Game was pretty good overall, but a let-down specifically because it was played up as a heist and it totally wasn't a heist. Cold Days, however, was a great novel.
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May 30, 2017 19:11
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Blasphemeral posted:I finally finished The Rook this weekend. Wow! It was fantastic. I'm eagerly awaiting the sequel to arrive. Is there a third in the works? I admit I didn't enjoy Cold Days at all but a big part of it was that it was Peak Rape Harry and that poo poo is genuinely awful.
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May 30, 2017 19:14
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Mortanis posted:I feel the Peter Grant novels would be easily forgettable and purely mediocre had I read them instead of doing the audiobook. Kobna Holdbrook-Smith does an exceptional job at making me give a poo poo about a borderline-idiot doing Police work by using 0 Level cantrip spells. I enjoy the Dresden audiobooks, and like Marsters well enough, but the Peter Grant audiobooks are completely night and day with regards to how they come across. I can't imagine reading them but the audiobooks are fun as hell. Yeah, Kobna Holdbrook-Smith is loving amazing and basically justifies my Audible subscription (that goes on hold between Rivers of London books). When I gave one of the graphic novels a try, my mental voice-overs for each recurring character was pretty much whatever voice he used for each character in the main novels. His Nightingale voice is incredible.
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May 30, 2017 19:24
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Blasphemeral posted:I finally finished The Rook this weekend. Wow! It was fantastic. I'm eagerly awaiting the sequel to arrive. Is there a third in the works? Game over man, Game over
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May 30, 2017 20:24
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Exmond posted:Game over man, Game over That whole "Hey, here is something I totally planned from the beginning" infodump with that code phrase was the dumbest poo poo since dancing with Mab in Arctis Tor to an orchestral version of Shinedown's "45". Both of those things were pretty loving stupid parts in an otherwise fun series.
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May 30, 2017 20:38
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biracial bear for uncut posted:That whole "Hey, here is something I totally planned from the beginning" infodump with that code phrase was the dumbest poo poo since dancing with Mab in Arctis Tor to an orchestral version of Shinedown's "45". It was a pretty cool moment with a good explanation. I think they were great moments in a fun series
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May 30, 2017 20:44
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I really don't see Peter Grant as unlikeable in the Rivers of London series. Flawed? Listless? Sure, but not unlikeable necessarily. There's not that "oh, gently caress off" moment that the series has crossed yet for me. I will admit that other protagonists like Daniel Faust and Myffany Thomas are certainly more charismatic than him.
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May 30, 2017 20:51
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biracial bear for uncut posted:That whole "Hey, here is something I totally planned from the beginning" infodump with that code phrase was the dumbest poo poo since dancing with Mab in Arctis Tor to an orchestral version of Shinedown's "45". That kind of infodump is pretty standard in heist stories, though, so I suspect it was a deliberate homage to the genre from Butcher.
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May 30, 2017 21:20
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Yeah, the "game over" bit is a highlight of the book, especially when you do a reread with the context in mind
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May 30, 2017 22:37
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Benny the Snake posted:I really don't see Peter Grant as unlikeable in the Rivers of London series. Flawed? Listless? Sure, but not unlikeable necessarily. There's not that "oh, gently caress off" moment that the series has crossed yet for me. I will admit that other protagonists like Daniel Faust and Myffany Thomas are certainly more charismatic than him. I find him a genuinely likeable and believable character. The ding on him not being ambitious is true at the start, but his curiousity about how magic works, his scientific approach, including his clumsy but fruitful experimentation is a nice, realistic touch. I recommend, again, the midnight mayor series. Good use of urban in the urban fantasy, more direct really than any of the other series. Also good use of London locales/myths.
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May 31, 2017 02:15
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Blasphemeral posted:I finally finished The Rook this weekend. Wow! It was fantastic. I'm eagerly awaiting the sequel to arrive. Is there a third in the works?
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May 31, 2017 03:46
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