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Shadowlyger posted:Yeah, isn't D.va classed as a bruiser? And yet she does gently caress all damage but is tanky as gently caress. I assume the argument is that she has low HP (for a warrior) and no hard CC or strong peeling abilities. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not, but she's a lot less of a tank than Varian at least.
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May 30, 2017 05:09
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blastron posted:Spoken like someone who's never lost a game because their Li Li talented exclusively into Cloud Serpent, leaving her Healing Brews basically homeopathic. ive won a bunch of games as li li speccing for cloud serpent because i like to give people pet snakes
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May 30, 2017 05:16
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They literally nerfed lili not too long ago because she was really good in double support comps and could talent for dps pretty well lol
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May 30, 2017 05:43
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Master Skin Li Li is OP because she opens up her umbrella when she uses her ultimate
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May 30, 2017 05:45
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Got Azmodunk out of a lootbox 
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May 30, 2017 05:50
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Ciaphas posted:
 I know the feeling buddy.
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May 30, 2017 05:54
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I was literally coming here to ask "yo how do you deal with Varian in QM bullshit match-ups" to find 2 pages of Varian-chat. So annoying... 
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May 30, 2017 06:39
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blastron posted:Spoken like someone who's never lost a game because their Li Li talented exclusively into Cloud Serpent, leaving her Healing Brews basically homeopathic. Yeah, the argument here isn't "They can take a talent that takes away their heal button/reduces their armor and health," it's that they have builds and talents that let them branch out if they're the 2nd support or tank/need less heal throughput, or bruisers that are not tanks but can (sometimes) be built for extra survivability that are still considered full tank by the QM matchmaker. And if that support or warrior is your only character in that role and goes full "Non-tank/non-heal" spec you're down a tank if the other team has one that built for tanking or healing. That build diversity or ability to cover other gaps is good by the way! It's just bullshit that they consider Dehaka, Leo, or Artanis inherently more tank than Varian because "what if he doesn't take the right ult?" Because Reghar can go entirely butt-bite, but it doesn't make him not a healer support! edit: I'm also fine with them leaving D.va as not a tank if their position is "We're going to reclassify QM matchmaker so all bruisers count as 'tank-lite' in QM, just like a few of the characters we currently do weird stuff with matchmaker on. We won't match a team with a heal-lite and/or tank-lite against a traditional comp until you hit the 300 second mark. We're just taking a bit more time fixing it with existing characters, but new characters are properly flagged" Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 06:54 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 06:50
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Oh hey, Genji from a 250g re-roll. 
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May 30, 2017 09:42
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Coolness Averted posted:Yeah, the argument here isn't "They can take a talent that takes away their heal button/reduces their armor and health," it's that they have builds and talents that let them branch out if they're the 2nd support or tank/need less heal throughput, or bruisers that are not tanks but can (sometimes) be built for extra survivability that are still considered full tank by the QM matchmaker. And if that support or warrior is your only character in that role and goes full "Non-tank/non-heal" spec you're down a tank if the other team has one that built for tanking or healing. Varian is a more extreme case compared to other heroes speccing to be good at other roles and less good at their "primary" role because not only do his ultimates define what he is, they also wildly swing his statistics. A Taunt Varian has 40% more health and 15 more armor than a Colossus Smash Varian/30% more health and 15 more armor than a Twin Blades Varian, dramatically altering how bulky he is and his ability to reasonably soak up punishment and front line even without considering the massive loss of peel/lockdown that not having Taunt represents. An Artanis who specs Amateur Opponent and Titan Killer doesn't suddenly lose 30% of his life bar. It's a thorny problem. Flagging Varian as a tank caused problems, and flagging Varian as a non-tank is causing debatably worse problems. I don't think there's a way to comfortably fix it without an awkward hard lock preventing him from taking Taunt if the enemy team doesn't have a "real" tank.
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May 30, 2017 11:58
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All complaints about flagging heroes can be answered with play unranked
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May 30, 2017 12:25
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Kanos posted:It's a thorny problem. Flagging Varian as a tank caused problems, and flagging Varian as a non-tank is causing debatably worse problems. I don't think there's a way to comfortably fix it without an awkward hard lock preventing him from taking Taunt if the enemy team doesn't have a "real" tank. The only fix would be redesigning Varian so his Fury and Arms damage is lowered and baking the Taunt health (but not armour) into his baseline, making Varian into a warrior who chooses between tank or bruiser instead of picking between tank and Assassin.
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May 30, 2017 12:51
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E2M2 posted:All complaints about flagging heroes can be answered with play Team League ftfy
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May 30, 2017 13:54
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Lemon-Lime posted:The only fix would be redesigning Varian so his Fury and Arms damage is lowered and baking the Taunt health (but not armour) into his baseline, making Varian into a warrior who chooses between tank or bruiser instead of picking between tank and Assassin. Yeah that's smart. Multi-class was a dumb idea
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May 30, 2017 13:57
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Also the next hero should be Blackthorne
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May 30, 2017 13:57
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That rolling grenade, flame shot, and the ability to lean back into the second dimenson
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May 30, 2017 13:58
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His trait would be shoot backwards, so meta would be auto attacking then immediately turning around to get in a free back shot.
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May 30, 2017 14:12
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blastron posted:Spoken like someone who's never lost a game because their Li Li talented exclusively into Cloud Serpent, leaving her Healing Brews basically homeopathic. For a long time her Cloud Serpent focused build was the highest healing (and damage) throughput build she could do. It got nerfed at some point though and is less generally effective now. It's still situationally one of her best builds. Sometimes I talent for the Good Stuff and Two For One but those are really the only brew improvements in her entire talent tree and they aren't like fantastic or anything.
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May 30, 2017 15:23
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Libertine posted:For a long time her Cloud Serpent focused build was the highest healing (and damage) throughput build she could do. It got nerfed at some point though and is less generally effective now. It's still situationally one of her best builds. Sometimes I talent for the Good Stuff and Two For One but those are really the only brew improvements in her entire talent tree and they aren't like fantastic or anything. Granted that during this time it was unintentional that the healing was triggered with each bounce, though it was hysterical to be able to tower dive with complete disregard for safety if the opposing team didn't respond.
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May 30, 2017 15:53
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Do they even own the rights to Blackthorne guy anymore? That game has been forever ago by the standards of the video game industry and it was a different company back then. I wouldn't be surprised if that game at some point was just haphazardly licensed out to some now defunct publisher.
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May 30, 2017 16:56
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I think the strongest argument to never QM again for me is Varian vs Varian matchups. Taunt and W spam mirror matches are insanely awful. I have a friend who just got into HoTS a couple months ago and is SUPER COMPETITIVE but got sucked in to last minute Team league placements for the raptor mount with some friends who are legit terrible. She placed well below average despite being an actually good player, and was pretty bummed. Are ranked seasons hard resets, or is this going to haunt her? She hasn't done any Hero League either, would the bad TL rank effect that placement? I'd answer her questions myself but I'm a QM/Unranked superstar (because I'm bad).
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May 30, 2017 17:01
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2 SPOOKY posted:I think the strongest argument to never QM again for me is Varian vs Varian matchups. Taunt and W spam mirror matches are insanely awful. Season reset essentially drops you 1/2-1 league and forces you to work your way back up. If you have a 60% win rate you can go up a league in about 40 hours of play. The game is super bad at putting you at where your skill level should be if it was wrong about the initial placement. bamhand fucked around with this message at 17:15 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 17:09
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The Tryhard For Good thing is over and they've posted a quick recap. They earned a bunch of money for charity and it seems like the streamers all enjoyed it!
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May 30, 2017 17:17
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For those looking on more opinions on meta builds, TSpsalm has released a pretty good library of info https://docs.google.com/document/d/169EApZPvKE38FIsaSJZsPCf9HK3CmvHTBCHwBVys4_k/preview#heading=h.acy7hum36fw9 edit: also reposting Mcintyre's since he also has a good resource https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tuaW9f-m7x-ukrWvgy2REb-3xnGfZ4bM0K0_4toTyPA/preview Midnightghoul fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 17:56
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Can someone explain this to me: 
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May 30, 2017 18:06
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If you were level 9 with jojo (or any other hero) before they changed how all the leveling works you will already have the master portrait
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May 30, 2017 18:11
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Polio Vax Scene posted:If you were level 9 with jojo (or any other hero) before they changed how all the leveling works you will already have the master portrait Yeah, master portraitis now the equivalent of the old level 10 master skin, while it used to be the level 9 reward.
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May 30, 2017 18:16
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Cool, thanks.
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May 30, 2017 18:21
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It's also why you could get a lot of the Collection portraits before you were supposed to because the move to 2.0 increased the Hero levels before factoring in the new requirements.
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May 30, 2017 18:32
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2 SPOOKY posted:Are ranked seasons hard resets, or is this going to haunt her? She hasn't done any Hero League either, would the bad TL rank effect that placement? Apparently your hidden QM MMR has a larger effect upon TL placements than your placement matches. Seriously if you haven't faceslammed a lot of QM your TL rank will be lower. Its dumb and bad. Also if she queued with bad players and kept getting bronze/silver opponents for matchups, then it certainly won't ever place her into gold or above.
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May 30, 2017 19:16
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I agree that QM determining your initial ranked MMR is not ideal as a player, but the alternative is to just throw someone new to ranked into what, plat or diamond and see how they do? That ruins games for other people.
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May 30, 2017 20:08
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Right before the sales switched...
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May 30, 2017 20:09
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beejay posted:I agree that QM determining your initial ranked MMR is not ideal as a player, but the alternative is to just throw someone new to ranked into what, plat or diamond and see how they do? That ruins games for other people. Using QM is just a random rear end guess anyway though, so same outcome
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May 30, 2017 20:48
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Power Bottom posted:It's also why you could get a lot of the Collection portraits before you were supposed to because the move to 2.0 increased the Hero levels before factoring in the new requirements. Oh, that explains why I have the portrait for getting both Stitches and Sylvanas to 15 despite Sylvanas only being 13; Stitches was at 10 and Sylvanas was at 9 before the roll over.
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May 30, 2017 20:54
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beejay posted:I agree that QM determining your initial ranked MMR is not ideal as a player, but the alternative is to just throw someone new to ranked into what, plat or diamond and see how they do? That ruins games for other people. Does TL have any effect on HL placement, or visa versa, then?
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May 30, 2017 20:55
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beejay posted:I agree that QM determining your initial ranked MMR is not ideal as a player, but the alternative is to just throw someone new to ranked into what, plat or diamond and see how they do? That ruins games for other people. As opposed to the situation above where someone doesn't know about it, nowhere in the game is informed of it, and then places "low" simply because they quickly gravitated towards a format that they would rather play? As opposed to a QM superstar getting placed into plat and ruining other people's games? Oh nevermind, its team league, you choose your own teammates and if you queue as 2-3 and expect this mode of matchmaking to somehow avoid lovely players when every other mode constantly and consistently gives you lovely players, I have no sympathy. Seriously look at how often people complain about matchmaking, yet still don't try to get groups themselves. It doesn't help that the game client itself has worse party finding structure than original everquest chat spam (at lest in EQ everyone leveling in the same zone were by default in the same chat channel). EDIT VV: No doubt that's for sure, but the constant focus on matchmaking and complete ignoring of the lack of tools for players to self-organize is always going to make things worse. What I really dislike is that they can get away with more problematic things by making more parts of the system hidden (e.g. hidden MMR, that MMR affects placements, etc) Reverend Dr fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 21:02
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Reverend Dr posted:Seriously look at how often people complain about matchmaking, yet still don't try to get groups themselves. It doesn't help that the game client itself has worse party finding structure than original everquest chat spam (at lest in EQ everyone leveling in the same zone were by default in the same chat channel). It's a big part of why I stopped playing.
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May 30, 2017 21:03
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Weird. If I play QM I just wanna play as fast as possible. I probably wouldn't play if the most basic quick play mode was 8+ min in queue.
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May 30, 2017 21:09
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My event box gave me tracer woooo
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May 30, 2017 21:22
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Kashuno posted:Weird. If I play QM I just wanna play as fast as possible. I probably wouldn't play if the most basic quick play mode was 8+ min in queue. I get really unnaturally excited if the QM pops and our team composition is anything resembling a normal balanced team.
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May 30, 2017 21:40
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