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Yeah but that open racism isn't being perpetrated by people who look like absolute poo poo
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May 31, 2017 17:08
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little munchkin posted:isn't there shitloads of open racism in britain towards muslims and pakistanis? why not get angry over that instead? drat, I forgot that people could literally only be angry about one single thing over the course of their entire lives! Why oh why did I waste my only anger on this?!
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May 31, 2017 17:09
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"why am i being punished? i only comitted light hate speech. diet hate speech, if you will. i didn't really mean it when i spent hours teaching a dog obscene gestures linked to an ideology of mass murder and oppression, it was just a funny joke. there are bigger problems in the world, starving kids in ethiopia and all that. why is my transgression of the law being prosecuted? aren't there bigger problems to deal with in our society than me, and people more deserving of punishment than myself? why do i have to face consequences for my actions?"
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May 31, 2017 17:10
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There's an argument that being able to go "lol, holocaust" means people will not be all "why is this sacred and other tragedies are not? Must be a conspiracy!" This argument is clearly wrong, and we can look at the US to show us why
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May 31, 2017 17:10
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boner confessor posted:we can do both? is it common for those other people to get thrown in jail for hate speech in Britain? serious question I don't follow British politics. Avenging_Mikon posted:There's no such thing as "okay Nazism", even if it's just in private and only a little Nazi-ish. So John Cleese, David Cross, the guy from the producers, and anyone else who's pretended to be a nazi for a laugh should all be arrested?
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May 31, 2017 17:14
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little munchkin posted:So John Cleese, David Cross, the guy from the producers, and anyone else who's pretended to be a nazi for a laugh should all be arrested? 
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May 31, 2017 17:15
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little munchkin posted:is it common for those other people to get thrown in jail for hate speech in Britain? serious question I don't follow British politics. i dont know. probably? they seem pretty robust about prosecuting these things but this case is a bit exceptional and is going to generate press where more mundane cases might get a mention in the local paper and that's it little munchkin posted:So John Cleese, David Cross, the guy from the producers, and anyone else who's pretended to be a nazi for a laugh should all be arrested? -few of those people are subject to british law -especially british law from the 1990's-2000's -if you're part of a large production and have established yourself as a comedian who is acting out a written script you have a more credible claim that you're "just joking" versus some schmo in his living room. at the least you'd have the legal protection of your employer, and likely their legal guidance on what you can get away with. how many people are pretending to be nazis on british tv nowadays? -those people are actually funny, and getting a laugh out of someone lends further credibility to the claim of "just joking" versus someone repeating 'gas the jews' at a dog like it's a broken FYAD meme
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May 31, 2017 17:17
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I feel like the best way to avoid potential "false positives" in situations like this is to only prosecute people if they've repeated such hate speech multiple times. The risk of a single time being due to stupidity/immaturity is too high to warrant legal consequences/jail time, but it's very unlikely they'd do such a thing multiple times without actually meaning it on some level. Note that I'm only talking about criminal punishment; I don't mind if people are fired from their jobs for doing stuff like this.
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May 31, 2017 17:17
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Avenging_Mikon posted:There's no such thing as "okay Nazism", even if it's just in private and only a little Nazi-ish. we must be more accomodating of these non extremist, moderate nazis and their centrist views 
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May 31, 2017 17:18
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I love the complaints about now not being able to be hired as a result of a hate speech arrest. Isn't the whole point of "free speech" is that it allows others to call you a prick if you are in fact acting like a prick?
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May 31, 2017 17:18
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mojo1701a posted:I love the complaints about now not being able to be hired as a result of a hate speech arrest. Isn't the whole point of "free speech" is that it allows others to call you a prick if you are in fact acting like a prick? free speech means that i can say whatever i want and you're not allowed to say anything bad or critical about it or make me face consequences for my actions in any way
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May 31, 2017 17:19
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mojo1701a posted:I love the complaints about now not being able to be hired as a result of a hate speech arrest. Isn't the whole point of "free speech" is that it allows others to call you a prick if you are in fact acting like a prick? "Free speech" means "I can do and say anything I want without any consequences" to these people
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May 31, 2017 17:20
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I think a comedian dressing up as Hitler to make fun of him and Nazism is different than a guy teaching his dog to heil the Fuhrer, and slippery sloping about it is yet more deeply disingenuous claptrap
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May 31, 2017 17:22
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i've seen a few conservatives say the guys in portland who got stabbed standing up to the ranting racist should have minded their own business. it's telling that they regard the men who died or were wounded as the wrong parties in this scenario who should have kept their mouths shut, and not the insanely angry armed man who was screaming racial epithets at teenage girls. this really tells you all you need to know about how people on the right regard free speech and who is allowed to have it
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May 31, 2017 17:32
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Lightning Lord posted:I think a comedian dressing up as Hitler to make fun of him and Nazism is different than a guy teaching his dog to heil the Fuhrer, and slippery sloping about it is yet more deeply disingenuous claptrap fair enough, those were awful examples throw Sam Hyde in jail y/n?
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May 31, 2017 17:48
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little munchkin posted:fair enough, those were awful examples Definitely y, but that's for the crime of being Sam Hyde.
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May 31, 2017 17:51
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boner confessor posted:how many people are pretending to be nazis on british tv nowadays? Are we counting politicians? Like, our hate speech laws are good laws, but when they're selectively applied only after the press has decided that it's terrible when some dumb beardy fucker makes a lousy joke and not when, say, a member of the government calls for the extermination of islam, or when a prominent member of the press says that refugees are cockroaches, I think that the application of the law is not securing anything approaching justice. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:54 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 17:52
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little munchkin posted:fair enough, those were awful examples i dont know who that is but i'm going to say yes because anyone responsible for a live action show on adult swim would probably be better off in prison
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May 31, 2017 17:53
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little munchkin posted:fair enough, those were awful examples God yes
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May 31, 2017 17:55
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boner confessor posted:i dont know who that is but i'm going to say yes because anyone responsible for a live action show on adult swim would probably be better off in prison A bitchass motherfucker who called Tim Heidecker to cry about having no health insurance yet gladly voted Trump 
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May 31, 2017 17:57
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boner confessor posted:i dont know who that is but i'm going to say yes because anyone responsible for a live action show on adult swim would probably be better off in prison watch his stand-up for an explanation on why I think a guy yelling "kill the jews" at his dog is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things
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May 31, 2017 17:59
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little munchkin posted:watch his stand-up 
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May 31, 2017 17:59
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little munchkin posted:watch his stand-up no thanks little munchkin posted:for an explanation on why I think a guy yelling "kill the jews" at his dog is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things it's not a dichotomy. we can punish them both, we don't have to choose boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 18:01
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aware of dog posted:"Free speech" means "I can do and say anything I want without any consequences" to these people Also they think the bill of rights means jack poo poo in other countries. Canadian sov cits are hilarious
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May 31, 2017 18:01
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boner confessor posted:i've seen a few conservatives say the guys in portland who got stabbed standing up to the ranting racist should have minded their own business. it's telling that they regard the men who died or were wounded as the wrong parties in this scenario who should have kept their mouths shut, and not the insanely angry armed man who was screaming racial epithets at teenage girls. this really tells you all you need to know about how people on the right regard free speech and who is allowed to have it Is this better or worse than Conservatives trying oh-so-hard to paint the killer as a progressive leftist? Because I've been seeing a lot of that.
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May 31, 2017 18:09
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they're both awfully stupid opinions to have. again, we dont have to choose
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May 31, 2017 18:09
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mojo1701a posted:I love the complaints about now not being able to be hired as a result of a hate speech arrest. Isn't the whole point of "free speech" is that it allows others to call you a prick if you are in fact acting like a prick? Companies don't genuinely care about that stuff. They care about their reputation. Which means that if you try to play off a joke as a real opinion you are making sure that someone is fired for no good reason.
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May 31, 2017 18:10
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Midig posted:Companies don't genuinely care about that stuff. They care about their reputation. Which means that if you try to play off a joke as a real opinion you are making sure that someone is fired for no good reason. Maybe next time this guy will try actually being funny so that people recognize it as a "joke".
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May 31, 2017 18:14
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Midig posted:Companies don't genuinely care about that stuff. They care about their reputation. Which means that if you try to play off a joke as a real opinion you are making sure that someone is fired for no good reason. if someone's joke is difficult to distinguish from a real opinion then that's kind of a problem for them. as it turns out, actions have consequences and realizing/accepting this is an essential part of growing up
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May 31, 2017 18:15
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boner confessor posted:i dont know. probably? they seem pretty robust about prosecuting these things but this case is a bit exceptional and is going to generate press where more mundane cases might get a mention in the local paper and that's it Basically, a person is only allowed to make offensive jokes if: -They are already famous enough -You had people help you with the offensive jokes -You have to find them funny Struggling/semi-successful comedians are not allowed to because 40+ people like you might not understand it.
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May 31, 2017 18:15
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Midig posted:Basically, a person is only allowed to make offensive jokes if: What was actually supposed to be funny here? Explain the joke.
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May 31, 2017 18:18
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Midig posted:Basically, a person is only allowed to make offensive jokes if: offensive humor is difficult, so it helps to be a good comedian when trying this kind of humor instead of just filming yourself conditioning an animal to respond to hate speech, which isn't actually funny Midig posted:Struggling/semi-successful comedians are not allowed to because 40+ people like you might not understand it. i understand it, it's just not funny. where is the punchline? where is the comedy? what broader statement is being made here except that people do stupid things? this is about as funny as someone making GBS threads themselves on purpose, or your posts it's super easy to dip into awful, shocking behavior because that's not as difficult as being creative and building an audience. i'll refer you to the earlier videos of the man who "pranked" his children until they had mental breakdowns. was he a struggling comedian deserving our respect as well? if you're asking me to draw a line between lenny bruce and nazi pug man, i'll ask you to draw the same line between nazi pug man and man who screams at his children as a joke
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May 31, 2017 18:20
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Who What Now posted:What was actually supposed to be funny here? Explain the joke. First I would like to make it clear that you won't LOL out loud after I explain the joke because few jokes work that way. The joke is this: He makes his silly dog learn to react to offensive material that is widely considered to not be "too soon". That is the joke. I smirked a bit at that. It is not genius comedy, but you have to be a special breed of moron to go around thinking "he is spreading antisemitism with his silly dog". Even worse to think that it warrants one year in jail.
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May 31, 2017 18:22
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also again i think it's extremely funny that a man with facial piercings and earplugs trying and failing to become a youtube comedy star is suddenly worried about his employment potential
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May 31, 2017 18:22
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Midig posted:He makes his silly dog learn to react to offensive material that is widely considered to not be "too soon" material. That is the joke. I smirked a bit at that. It is not genius comedy, but you have to be a special breed of moron to go around thinking "he is spreading antisemitism with his silly dog". Even worse to think that it warrants one year in jail. i'm sorry that you think the scottish legal code is a special breed of moron but that sounds like exactly your problem and nobody else's. maybe if the guy wasn't so desperate to not work for a living that he would do something so stupid as to film himself teaching hate speech to a dog he wouldn't be in this mess but the world never ceases to amaze regarding the basic idiocy of everyday people
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May 31, 2017 18:24
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Midig posted:First I would like to make it clear that you won't LOL out loud after I explain the joke because few jokes work that way. The joke is this: That's not a joke. Jokes have set ups, where you build a premise, and then a punchline, where you use that premise in a humorous way, usually by subverting it. What you described is not a joke.
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May 31, 2017 18:26
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boner confessor posted:also again i think it's extremely funny that a man with facial piercings and earplugs trying and failing to become a youtube comedy star is suddenly worried about his employment potential I work with several people who have some or all of those things so that isn't a particular barrier in the UK, they just adjust the dress code to compensate.
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May 31, 2017 18:27
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boner confessor posted:offensive humor is difficult, so it helps to be a good comedian when trying this kind of humor instead of just filming yourself conditioning an animal to respond to hate speech, which isn't actually funny Good. If you understand that it is a joke you move on. Congratulatulations, you are not a moron. Instead of appeasing morons by giving him a sentence, how about not putting him under arrest.
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May 31, 2017 18:28
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Who What Now posted:That's not a joke. Jokes have set ups, where you build a premise, and then a punchline, where you use that premise in a humorous way, usually by subverting it. What you described is not a joke. *looks up the word "joke" in the dictionary* just as I thought, lock him up boys
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May 31, 2017 18:28
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The Nazi dog is about as much of a "joke" as PDP's poo poo. What I'm saying is PewDiePie should be in jail. I feel like we've had this conversation before, Midig. Just cause you think saying offensive things is a joke doesn't necessarily make it so, and doesn't insulate you from criticism. See: Michael Richards, Daniel Tosh.
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May 31, 2017 18:29
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