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Pollyanna posted:Currently ongoing. Still on the "find places and do their phone screens" stage. I'm actually having trouble finding jobs to apply to, or at least ones that I like - I mostly rely on AngelList and StackOverflow, and tips from personal contacts. It's certainly nothing like the "OH MY GOD THERE'S A HUGE DELUGE OF ENGINEERING NEEDS EVERYWHERE!!!" thing that everyone claims, but maybe that's just my pickiness. Maybe try a big tech co, like Amazon/Google/FB?
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Jun 2, 2017 15:31
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return0 posted:Maybe try a big tech co, like Amazon/Google/FB? I dunno if it's worth it for me to apply - they undoubtedly need more experience and hardcore skills than I have (e.g. this). Given my performance in my career so far, I don't think I'm Big Time material yet. That's partly why I want to build my skills, cause I don't feel inspired or excited by the usual VC stuff you see online and I want to apply to places that are much more interesting, but are by nature more exclusive and therefore not really reaching out to new hires. That said, it's totally possible that I'm underselling myself. Can't hurt to try, so...maybe I should be doing that.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:35
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Lumpy posted:I once was asked to add a clock to an "app" that was actually a full-screen (but not kisok mode) web page. I pointed out that there was already a clock on-screen at all times from the OS. I was told to do it anyway. I put the in-app clock literally directly above the Windows task bar clock in the same size and font (machines were all standardized and locked down, so they couldn't move / remove it) and got heaps of praise and great feedback that everyone loved it. aghaha i've done this exact thing. literally i built a reusable shell thing with a clock in the bottom right, which people audibly appreciate to be fair it is helpful in screenshots of problems. means we don't have to capture the entire desktop and reveal private info
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Jun 2, 2017 15:39
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Iverron posted:If there's a deluge of need there's also a deluge of lovely places to work. Very much this. Finding a job is piss easy. Finding a job worth the time is harder.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:42
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Pollyanna posted:Currently ongoing. Still on the "find places and do their phone screens" stage. I'm actually having trouble finding jobs to apply to, or at least ones that I like - I mostly rely on AngelList and StackOverflow, and tips from personal contacts. It's certainly nothing like the "OH MY GOD THERE'S A HUGE DELUGE OF ENGINEERING NEEDS EVERYWHERE!!!" thing that everyone claims, but maybe that's just my pickiness. https://whoishiring.io/ Is a really nice job search that pulls from StackOverflow, Hacker News, etc.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:56
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Pollyanna posted:I dunno if it's worth it for me to apply stop doing this I've lost track of how many times it's been said in these threads but stop doing the other company's recruiter's job for them. Just Apply. quote:Can't hurt to try, so...maybe I should be doing that. You should be!
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Jun 2, 2017 17:21
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Pollyanna posted:I dunno if it's worth it for me to apply Worst case scenario, you get an interview, then bomb spectacularly and cry and run out. Still ends up with not having a job at Google, and you will probably learn something about interviewing such that you bomb the next one less.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:29
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Skandranon posted:Worst case scenario, you get an interview, then bomb spectacularly and cry and run out. Still ends up with not having a job at Google, and you will probably learn something about interviewing such that you bomb the next one less. I'd actually argue that the worst case scenario is that my application is effectively ignored and I receive no feedback on what I would need to do to bolster myself enough to be noticeable. Perspective is important, but companies being unresponsive doesn't help you in this at all. csammis posted:stop doing this Yeah, I know...it's just hard to deal with when a lot of the positions require tech I don't immediately have the chops for. Though that can be remedied with a few toy projects.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:32
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Pollyanna posted:I'd actually argue that the worst case scenario is that my application is effectively ignored and I receive no feedback on what I would need to do to bolster myself enough to be noticeable. Perspective is important, but companies being unresponsive doesn't help you in this at all. If that is your worst case scenario, what is holding you back? Something so trivial can't possibly hurt you. The majority of companies will flat out ignore you, this is something you have to get used to.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:37
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Job ads are wish lists in a lot of cases so apply anyway. What's the worst that can happen?
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Jun 2, 2017 17:38
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I think big companies like google and amazon are probably more likely to give you real actionable feedback on how you could improve.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:47
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Sometimes you know you're not cut out for the interview process and it's a complete waste of time. I was bombing writing a goddamn linked list out on a whiteboard in interviews because I was so stressed out from work. I was in interviews and getting called during my phone interviews and during on-sites by my boss to fix something in production and that just threw me off mentally. Sometimes you're better off just plain quitting without anything lined up because staying in your current job is actively harmful far moreso than unemployment toward improving your career standing.taqueso posted:I think big companies like google and amazon are probably more likely to give you real actionable feedback on how you could improve.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:02
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Pollyanna posted:Currently ongoing. Still on the "find places and do their phone screens" stage. I'm actually having trouble finding jobs to apply to, or at least ones that I like - I mostly rely on AngelList and StackOverflow, and tips from personal contacts. It's certainly nothing like the "OH MY GOD THERE'S A HUGE DELUGE OF ENGINEERING NEEDS EVERYWHERE!!!" thing that everyone claims, but maybe that's just my pickiness. Locations matters as well. Where do you live? Some places won't invest in relo if you're not experienced enough and being too far away from a hub can hurt. Tech companies are also in a weird place right now. They're constantly screaming about how they can never find enough tech talent but a hell of a lot of them will only hire you if you are literally Vint Cerf. It's like they're actively looking for reasons to not hire you. One job in particular I didn't get because the CEO thought it was wrong that I like to program games in my spare time. That's it. That was his whole reason. I absolutely crushed the interviews with two senior devs and the CTO and they were like "oh hell yes get this guy!" Then the CEO asked what my favorite thing to program was and didn't like the answer.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:15
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Locations matters as well. Where do you live? Some places won't invest in relo if you're not experienced enough and being too far away from a hub can hurt. In retrospect, probably good to dodge a company who's CEO has such bizarre hang ups.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:21
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Pixelboy posted:In retrospect, probably good to dodge a company who's CEO has such bizarre hang ups. Yeah it was also in a city I didn't really want to live in. I realize I dodged a bullet on that one but I also at the time was unemployed and really, really needed a job.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:27
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Pixelboy posted:In retrospect, probably good to dodge a company who's CEO has such bizarre hang ups.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:30
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Another great reason to interview at one of the giants is the confidence boost. You'll walk into every other interview knowing that you've faced the hardest and didn't crumple.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:44
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Locations matters as well. Where do you live? Some places won't invest in relo if you're not experienced enough and being too far away from a hub can hurt. I'm in Boston, so there's no real problem there. quote:Tech companies are also in a weird place right now. They're constantly screaming about how they can never find enough tech talent but a hell of a lot of them will only hire you if you are literally Vint Cerf. It's like they're actively looking for reasons to not hire you. Yeah, I don't know what the gently caress is going on there. They seem to think they're bigger than they really are, or like they're trying to be Google by emulating their hiring and interview practices. People don't want to work at Google because of the way Google does interviews, so why mimic that specific thing? It seems really stupid and short-sighted. I really wonder what goes on in their heads.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:15
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Pollyanna posted:I'm in Boston, so there's no real problem there. Cargo culting. Google is wildly successful so we must mindlessly ape whatever they do. Oh except the whole "start people at six figures" thing, all the perks, and the insane bennies. We won't be doing that. We want Google-level talent without paying a Google-level salary. Google has an insane interview process partly because they can and partly because they need to. They get top talent because they're happily willing to pay for it and let their people nerd the gently caress out. Other tech companies are doing the filtering without everything else. What they see is Google getting the top talent and thinking it has to do with the interview process. It's people deciding that they too want and deserve Google-level talent and asking "how do I get it?" However in the tech world you generally get what you pay for. Yeah sometimes you'll get somebody really good who will work for $60K but it won't last. They'll get snapped up by somebody willing to pay what a good programmer is worth before long unless they find a very, very good reason to stay. And yes it's really short-sighted. The simple fact is that top programming talent is god damned expensive. A lot of companies are trying to snag top talent and only top talent or people they won't have to train on the tech for a few weeks or months without being willing to pony up the cash. Meanwhile they also won't pay to develop new talent. It's a really bizarre catch 22 thing they have going on; they're whining that they can't find top talent but they're neither willing to pay for it nor pay to develop it. Everybody, their pet monkey, and the fleas on that monkey applies to Google. Not everybody applies to Joe's Software Shack (No We Won't Pay You $100,000 Ever). However Joe wants top talent and won't settle for less so of course Joe is going to piss and moan when he can't get it. edit: Something I should add; unless you work directly for a tech company the techies in the IT department, whatever it is they do, are viewed as a cost center. Companies that are not tech companies only pay for tech grudgingly. You need computers in basically everything that exists these days. You need stuff like POS systems, a website, an e-mail server, just piles and piles of tech and tech ain't cheap. So the company will constantly look for ways to cut that cost to the bone in any way they can. In the business culture of America this also includes trying to get classes of worker they know will be expensive on the cheap. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 19:26
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When asked for profile requirements for testers in our dept, I told them to: - Select on smarts and willingness to learn over experience in the domain. - Find people who are conceptually able to distinct between manual testing and writing hands-off automated test pipelines - offer to pay these people 25 to 30 % over market rate because for this rare group there are much more fun opportunities than datawarehouse testing. Neither of these things will happen but at least I told them my view.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:49
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One thing that turns me off applying/interviewing at the giants is that I've heard a few times that their process is much longer, like months. Being "On the hook" for months would be weird for me. Every apartment I've lived in has wanted renewals done months before the lease is up and new apartments seem to always be leased well ahead of time. For instance, if I did it right now my renewal is coming up(I have to choose to renew or not this month), if I was in an application process I wouldn't want to sign a whole new year on my apartment. On the otherhand, if I didn't sign it, and didn't get the job, I'd be stuck having to look for apartments open on short notice and my experiences with that haven't been great. I'm not even sure if this is a valid fear or not, but it's always crept into my mind when looking at any job opening that would involve relocation, but it's just amplified with the giants. On a different note, I have nothing at all to do at work. One of my projects was canceled. In theory it's a good thing because it was a poorly thought out project, on an unsuitable system, with poorly defined requirements which were growing forever. It would have been tons of work on something that would not be used. The problem is two of my other projects were cut to free me up for the first project. One was scaled back massively. Another was outsourced because I would be too busy with the first now canceled project.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:38
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wilderthanmild posted:For instance, if I did it right now my renewal is coming up(I have to choose to renew or not this month), if I was in an application process I wouldn't want to sign a whole new year on my apartment. On the otherhand, if I didn't sign it, and didn't get the job, I'd be stuck having to look for apartments open on short notice and my experiences with that haven't been great. I'm not even sure if this is a valid fear or not, but it's always crept into my mind when looking at any job opening that would involve relocation, but it's just amplified with the giants. First off, if you're applying for a job that involves relocating it is completely fine to tell the recruiter "my apartment lease is almost up, so I'd really like to have an answer before {DATE}." I think putting time pressure on them is more likely to help you than to hurt you. Second, if you signed a lease a month ago and you get a job offer to relocate you should just ask (before accepting the offer). Most companies seem to be including life-counseling services as part of benefits (so they could help you figure out your options) and you can certainly ask for some extra money to break your lease.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:07
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Google is the only one I know of that actually takes months because they have all these committees that have to weight in and only meet every few weeks. The rest are pretty standard: probably an initial phone screen, response within a day or two, can usually schedule on-site to be as soon as a week or two later and hear back within a day or two about a hiring decision. Anyways if the fee for breaking your lease is substantial I don't think it would be hard to negotiate that into your relo costs. I would never not renew a lease on the assumption that I was going to get a particular job until I had an offer in hand.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:01
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lifg posted:Another great reason to interview at one of the giants is the confidence boost. You'll walk into every other interview knowing that you've faced the hardest and didn't crumple. I dunno, knowing that I was too dumb to work at either Google or Facebook didn't exactly do wonders for my confidence.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:36
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raminasi posted:I dunno, knowing that I was too dumb to work at either Google or Facebook didn't exactly do wonders for my confidence. A lot of other people are, and frankly Google (can't speak for Facebook) rejects a lot of good people for various reasons, so even if you're turned down it's not necessarily a sign that you're terrible.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:30
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Volmarias posted:A lot of other people are, and frankly Google (can't speak for Facebook) rejects a lot of good people for various reasons, so even if you're turned down it's not necessarily a sign that you're terrible. Doesn't Google in particular run into the problem where they'll get like 100 people qualified for the position then go "well, gently caress. Who do we pick?"
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Jun 4, 2017 21:44
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Google doesn't hire for specific positions, so no.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:12
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Google is all about precision, rather than recall, in their hiring. They miss a lot of good candidates because of the process, but it works well.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:16
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Google is more worried about letting bad people in that will ruin codebases and have an overall net negative contribution, and can afford to err on the side of caution.
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Jun 5, 2017 00:19
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All of this. They'd rather skip 100 good candidates than hire one iffy one.ToxicSlurpee posted:Doesn't Google in particular run into the problem where they'll get like 100 people qualified for the position then go "well, gently caress. Who do we pick?" No, not quite. While you need to have a particular role to interview FOR, passing hiring committee is different from placement, which can happen after. This actually happened to me, where I was hired for one role, but then ended up being placed into another before starting for reasons I won't get into.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:15
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Skandranon posted:Google is more worried about letting bad people in that will ruin codebases and have an overall net negative contribution, and can afford to err on the side of caution. google.com is still not valid html. Never has been afaik.
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Jun 5, 2017 08:39
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 WE'RE LIVE! https://next.me/ aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm so excited I have actual real significant amounts of code released to the public and it hasn't all come crashing down around our ears Holy poo poo the last year has been ridiculous but goddamn it is so worth it right now aaaaaaaaaa  For context: I started this job last May, working on standing up a fully-featured digital-only bank. My company took on the contract to develop the middletier software, working in concert with a couple other vendors that handled other facets of the system. This is the first real-world project that I've contributed a significant amount to, to the point that I'm one of the primary SMEs for a major feature.
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Jun 5, 2017 14:07
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ChickenWing posted:
The site takes 2 minutes to load because it's downloading like 20 MB of poo poo and throws dozens of 404 errors. Also if you go to any page that has routing involved (like the contact page) and hit F5, it throws a 404. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 14:17
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:The site takes 2 minutes to load because it's downloading like 20 MB of poo poo and throws dozens of 404 errors. We only worked on the middletier, so we also get to feel smugly superior when the frontend does silly things 
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Jun 5, 2017 14:21
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ChickenWing posted:We only worked on the middletier, so we also get to feel smugly superior when the frontend does silly things You should mention it because a page that takes minutes flashing a loading screen (and ~20-30 seconds on a RELOAD) to become usable is ridiculous.
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Jun 5, 2017 14:23
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You're right, it is ridiculous. And that's all I'm going to say about our FE vendor in a public forum while I'm still employed and my company still has to work with them for a couple months
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Jun 5, 2017 14:25
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If they have a Google Alert (or similar) set up for links to their site, which is likely if they have a good marketing department, they could find the link you've placed in this forum. I wouldn't chance it. e: Congrats on getting a project out the door, though 
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Jun 5, 2017 14:28
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ChickenWing posted:
The UI for this site  Also  
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Jun 5, 2017 14:32
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Pollyanna posted:It seems really stupid and short-sighted. *papers slam down on desk* Welcome to a world called Work
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Drastic Actions posted:The UI for this site I was also going to mention the logo... you are not going to win against Microsoft on this. Edit: Ignore us goons, we just can't let people be happy. Enjoy the moment for what it is.
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