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Fair and it may have been an oversight. I think the logic seems to be "does this apply to every unit, some units or a few units?" And if it applied to every unit (like advancing) or a a good number (like invul saves) then it was put in the core rules. If it didn't apply to many units it was put on the sheet, because I think a laudable goal in this edition was to cut down on the jargon heavy keywords. But deep strike ended up being on more stuff than it seemed. That's just my theory, I do agree that could have been a more elegant way of handling it. I also maintain I don't think it's really a big deal once you realize they're identical and therefore don't actually need to memorize 32 different rules.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:36
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jadebullet posted:Just as a heads up, the Warhammer TV twitch channel is playing a game of 8th. The drone does some impressive work.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:40
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I think it's likely a flexibility thing. For now they all do exactly the same thing. Once codex books start coming out you will probably see more variation creeping in. By doing it this way they aren't locked into Deepstrike Exception #19. It's simply "Tyranids have Floppy Hook Dongs which do X."
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Jun 2, 2017 15:41
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:I'm worried I already know the answer to this, but would a footslogging army of Primaris marines be any good? A: They are the "hero" faction, rest assured they will do EVERYTHING just fine.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:52
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I also like it as it means they have to write rules that interact with deep striking cleaner. There won't be any more issues with wondering if Coteaz's ability works on models teleporting using the deep strike rules but not from reserves or whatever.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:52
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Geoff Zahn posted:I think some abilities could have just had a couple words for a description and have been fine - Like if it said something like this: gently caress that. One of 7th's biggest problems is having to spend 20 minutes+ of every game digging through the rulebook and its 30-page glossary of USRs that tell you which dice you get to re-roll
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Jun 2, 2017 15:55
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Indolent Bastard posted:A: They are the "hero" faction, rest assured they will do EVERYTHING just fine. Regular Space Marines are the "hero" faction right now, and if they try footslogging, they get their lunch ate.
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Jun 2, 2017 15:59
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Syncopated posted:This, but the opposite. It's why I've always hoped that they would have a short story about the Magos double agent that pretended to defect to the Dark mechanicum in order to retrieve a vital transport STC and in turn had it named in honor of him; Repulsive Heretic In Name Only
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Jun 2, 2017 16:02
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TheChirurgeon posted:gently caress that. One of 7th's biggest problems is having to spend 20 minutes+ of every game digging through the rulebook and its 30-page glossary of USRs that tell you which dice you get to re-roll This. I don't want fluffy names that make me then go look up the actual rule somewhere else. I'd be okay with a small handful of them, like the two tops for each army right now like that, but it's really easy for it to get out of hand so I'm Ok with having the rules printed with the rest of the model stats. Also there are guns that let you shoot deep strike or summoned daemons or teleports. They say if an enemy sets up, but not during deployment. Now they don't have to reference any other rule and it covers anything they can think of that causes models to come from no where.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:06
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What's with that base? Are all 40k vehicles like that? edit: how did i end up in the 40k thread?! this has done irreparable damage to my poasting brand!
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Jun 2, 2017 16:09
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Cat Face Joe posted:What's with that base? Are all 40k vehicles like that? Hover vehicles have bases. Surprised they went with a round instead of the 120mm oval, though.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:09
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Safety Factor posted:Counterpoint: That illustration was the best part of that book!
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Jun 2, 2017 16:10
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Hover vehicles have bases. Surprised they went with a round instead of the 120mm oval, though. Yeah, I'm used to seeing the oval bases on big warham stuff. This just looks weird and seems like it'd cause formation issues.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:14
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Cat Face Joe posted:Yeah, I'm used to seeing the oval bases on big warham stuff. This just looks weird and seems like it'd cause formation issues. nah for vehicles you measure from the hull on most stuff
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Jun 2, 2017 16:18
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General Olloth posted:This. I don't want fluffy names that make me then go look up the actual rule somewhere else. Plus I believe some of the new Deep Strike rules have values other than 9". I believe the Monolith says 12"? Having it printed on the units data sheet lets them get a bit granular on the rule based on the overall power level of the unit.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:20
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Ahem. We don't use the term "formation" in this thread anymore. Even in reference to model positioning. Too likely to give a random goon a conniption fit or trigger flashbacks. Respect the rights of the elderly veterans.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:20
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Safety Factor posted:Counterpoint: Great. Cool illo. But how 'bout we just name him something not-retarded?
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Jun 2, 2017 16:23
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Plus I believe some of the new Deep Strike rules have values other than 9". I believe the Monolith says 12"? Having it printed on the units data sheet lets them get a bit granular on the rule based on the overall power level of the unit. Correct. And the Deathmarks can do 9, or 9 but within 12 for counter deep striking. (Also, they no longer are prevented from firing on their next turn, which might make them not suck.)
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Jun 2, 2017 16:25
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Plus I believe some of the new Deep Strike rules have values other than 9". I believe the Monolith says 12"? Having it printed on the units data sheet lets them get a bit granular on the rule based on the overall power level of the unit. Just looked at the Monolith profile and you are right, it is 12". I take back what I said then, I thought it was a universal 9".
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Jun 2, 2017 16:25
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I'm waiting to see this weirdo tank in person before I hate it completely. I do hope it's not the bigmar razorback you need a few of for mechanized armies though.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:25
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Finished this guy last night. Watchmaster Garrathus, of the Scythes of the Emperor chapter. One of the few surviving members of the Second Tyrranic War against Hive Fleet Kraken and a native of the chapter's now-destroyed homeworld of Sotha.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:26
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Ayn Marx posted:I'm waiting to see this weirdo tank in person before I hate it completely. I do hope it's not the bigmar razorback you need a few of for mechanized armies though. Yeah, I'm hoping that's the bigredator, not the bigazorback. TheChirurgeon posted:Finished this guy last night. Watchmaster Garrathus, of the Scythes of the Emperor chapter. One of the few surviving members of the Second Tyrranic War against Hive Fleet Kraken and a native of the chapter's now-destroyed homeworld of Sotha. That's a dude who has Seen Some poo poo. Nice!
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Jun 2, 2017 16:28
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We have yet to see the multipart kits for bigmars - I wonder if they go live with 8E as well? players who start a bigmar chapter will struggle to field a complete force without those
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Jun 2, 2017 16:31
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It suddenly occurred to me that Genestealer Cultists got a points increase but lost an attack. They can have 3 attacks if they use the Cultist Knife, but Rending Claws are now a separate weapon and don't grant generic attacks Rending anymore. Woof. This will have to be mitigated by swinging around with a Primus, or having a Cult Icon. Glad I never chopped those up to make more Iconwards or emblems for vehicles. However, equipment like Cult Icons and such don't have point values, since they aren't units or weapons. Yay?
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Jun 2, 2017 16:32
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Yeah, I'm hoping that's the bigredator, not the bigazorback. thanks! I have basically 2 terminators, 1-2 bikes, 1 Razorback, 1 assault marine and maybe 6 "regular" Defwatch mans to go before I'm done with this army. Feels good.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:33
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There's no rule about vehicles moving in a certain way, right? They could strafe or do whatever?
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Jun 2, 2017 16:36
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TheChirurgeon posted:thanks! I have basically 2 terminators, 1-2 bikes, 1 Razorback, 1 assault marine and maybe 6 "regular" Defwatch mans to go before I'm done with this army. Feels good. Think you'll be running the disgustingly versatile new mixed kill teams?
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Jun 2, 2017 16:37
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Ayn Marx posted:I'm waiting to see this weirdo tank in person before I hate it completely. I do hope it's not the bigmar razorback you need a few of for mechanized armies though. The article never uses the word "transport", but it clearly has access doors on the sides and rear, so I suspect it's their razorback. That said, the vindicator also has a rear door too, so that might not mean 100% that this is a transport, but it probably is. And considering the hilarious amount of guns strapped to the drat thing, I figure their embiggened predator will mount a loving baneblade turret with sponson thunderfires or something.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:37
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Vehicles now move the same as any other model. No need to worry about facings, weapon arcs, etc.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:38
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:There's no rule about vehicles moving in a certain way, right? They could strafe or do whatever? Except for Supersonic Flyers, that's correct. The only rule is that no part of their hull can end up further from the starting point than the vehicle's movement value Artum posted:Think you'll be running the disgustingly versatile new mixed kill teams? Yeah, probably! I haven't really looked at the new Deathwatch rules yet--I've only played like 2 games with them to-date. They're more a hobby project than a serious army, but I'll probably run them in some weird kill teams.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:38
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Does some kind of facing still apply for which weapons can shoot, or can you fire a right sponson at a target to the tank's left? I'd assume there has to be a visibility rule.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:41
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:There's no rule about vehicles moving in a certain way, right? They could strafe or do whatever? Iirc they always could since you could rotate.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:42
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Ilor posted:Great. Cool illo. But how 'bout we just name him something not-retarded? 
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Jun 2, 2017 16:43
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Geoff Zahn posted:Does some kind of facing still apply for which weapons can shoot, or can you fire a right sponson at a target to the tank's left? I'd assume there has to be a visibility rule. It would appear not, fliers can apparently do work with their tail guns literally all the time now.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:43
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Quick painting question, when I'm layering do I want to go darker to lighter or does the direction matter more? I want to try a marine pattern reminiscent of the dawn sky and was thinking of doing reddish orange at the feet and transitioning to a more yellow as I climb the the model.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:45
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jadebullet posted:Iirc they always could since you could rotate. The difference is that now you can do things like create walls and whatnot without having to worry about vehicles clipping each other as you turn them.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:46
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I'm glad that tank is not some ancient forgotten archeotech and is instead Cawl's poo poo, because that means it will never show up in 30k.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:49
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TheChirurgeon posted:Except for Supersonic Flyers, that's correct. The only rule is that no part of their hull can end up further from the starting point than the vehicle's movement value They're so good they might actually need to be FAQd, if you bring a single bike terminator and vanguard the squad is immune to morale, can retreat from combat and still shoot, and still charge, and gets a teleport homer that they or another squad can emergency teleport to instead of moving. Thats on top of being good at ranged because their AP ammo doesnt get hot anymore and the entire squad can run bolters and chainswords so they can handle themselves in melee as well.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:49
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Geoff Zahn posted:Does some kind of facing still apply for which weapons can shoot, or can you fire a right sponson at a target to the tank's left? I'd assume there has to be a visibility rule. Nope, they work like MCs now and can just shoot everything everywhere. Feels weird after all this time but I think it's a good change. Too many awkward weapon mounts, and it lets converted vehicles go hog wild.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:51
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Nope, they work like MCs now and can just shoot everything everywhere. Feels weird after all this time but I think it's a good change. Too many awkward weapon mounts, and it lets converted vehicles go hog wild. The weapon arc they FAQ'd onto the Imperial Knights springs to mind very rapidly here. That sure was something special.
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