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When Leland revs the engine I just start screaming until the rv hobo drives away
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Jun 1, 2017 20:24
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https://twitter.com/MrFilmkritik/status/870056149722255364
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Jun 1, 2017 20:51
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kaworu posted:That is fascinating you that you see it in those two options. And that you centralize from Leland/BOB's POV rather than Laura's. To me, the question is a lot more like this at a basic level: Did Laura *and* Leland create Bob as a coping mechanism, and if so which one of them, or does it matter? Obtaining this consistency was the primary objective of Lynch in making Fire Walk With Me, to try and find a core that could tie the series with all it's mishaps and inconsistencies in a cohesive whole, with Laura incestuous relationship with his father at the center and all the mythology as more of a type of allegoric imagery of the unconscious Real of that violence. I think one of the problems of the show was that immediately after revealing that Leland was the abuser they tried to normalize it too much, in his redemption death scene with shamanic Dale guiding him into the light, as a demonic possession by otherwordly BOB, robbing him of much of the guilt, probably under pressure by the ABC exec's to tone down middle-class incestuous murder story in the 90's prime-time TV. In Fire Walk With Me, Lynch does the utmost to put the abuse at the center of it all, and muddles the waters immensely in regard to Leland's apparent 'possession', making him appear much more complicit. This brings me to something I was thinking about while driving earlier today, that maybe this new season will have at the center, not the incestuous patriarchal violence of BOB/Leland/Bad Cooper, but actually Maternal incestuous violence. What brought to this was the association of the murdering glass box creature killing the couple and assuming that it maybe is the same creature banging on the door in the transition 'dream' area Cooper goes through, which the second lady there calls Mother. This immediately reminds me of the Hithcock's movie "Birds" from which I remember a Zizekian interpretation that very convincingly says that the attacking birds are a libidinal incestuous manifestation of the rage and insecurity the mother feels against the gradually forming couple which is going to rob her of her son's company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT7NIGcaMtw So in TP, 'Mother' killing the couple making out, could've been a manifestation of maternal rage in a similar way. Another thing that brings this home is the seemingly oddly placed scene of the addict mother and her child watching the scene of the escort 'Jade ' putting 'idiot' Coop's shoes on, again like a mother. Also in this last episode we have the suffering spouse of Dougie which seemed at almost the breaking point before getting Mr Jackpot's bag of money. We'll see where this goes but I wouldn't be surprised if the main antagonist this season is a woman/womanly creature. Fados fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 21:02
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https://twitter.com/Kyle_MacLachlan/status/869997912725626882 it is impossible to not love this man.
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Jun 1, 2017 21:19
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:https://twitter.com/Kyle_MacLachlan/status/869997912725626882
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Jun 1, 2017 22:28
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steakmancer posted:That dinner scene with the dirty hands was pretty normal to me and I don't really get why people talk about it Yeah doesn't everyone wash their hands before dinner?
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Jun 1, 2017 23:12
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Doesn't everyone get menaced by their father at the table about jewelry given to them by a "lover"? While he inspects your fingers, paying close attention to your fingernails and what's under them, perhaps foreshadowing an event wherein he kills you and places a small letter under your nail.
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Jun 1, 2017 23:54
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If your father ever treated you like Leland treats Laura in FWWM then you had a real hosed up childhood and I'm sorry 
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Jun 1, 2017 23:58
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I mean my hands were dirty man, I should have done better
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Jun 2, 2017 00:07
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A local theater is showing a new 4K restoration of Mulholland Drive this weekend. I just saw the movie like a week and a half ago. Should I go? I've never seen it in a theater and the version I saw was not the new restoration.
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Jun 2, 2017 00:48
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:A local theater is showing a new 4K restoration of Mulholland Drive this weekend. I just saw the movie like a week and a half ago. Should I go? I've never seen it in a theater and the version I saw was not the new restoration. obviously yes
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Jun 2, 2017 00:50
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Dude yes that sounds great. I saw FWWM at Alamo drafthouse it was great in theater
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Jun 2, 2017 00:51
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:A local theater is showing a new 4K restoration of Mulholland Drive this weekend. I just saw the movie like a week and a half ago. Should I go? I've never seen it in a theater and the version I saw was not the new restoration. gently caress yes drat it
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Jun 2, 2017 01:03
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Well that settles that then! 
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Jun 2, 2017 01:50
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Well that settles that then! What do you think Lynch would make of Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty?
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Jun 2, 2017 02:02
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I just found this the other day - my bad if this has already been posted. twin peaks ads for a coffee brand owned by coca cola that was launched in japan. I may as well post it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BghhUJA5jcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb6qul_ZVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u32k97GKcQ
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Jun 2, 2017 03:06
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:A local theater is showing a new 4K restoration of Mulholland Drive this weekend. I just saw the movie like a week and a half ago. Should I go? I've never seen it in a theater and the version I saw was not the new restoration. holy gently caress yes it owns on the big screen
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Jun 2, 2017 03:40
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:What do you think Lynch would make of Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty? I imagine he'd give Kojima a pat on the back for writing the final hour or two of that game.
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Jun 2, 2017 05:15
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Apple Craft posted:I do not think that Dale Cooper is intended to have failed in the black lodge. Not really, Coop is pretty much completely defeated by Window Earle at the end of the second season and enters the lodge with 'imperfect courage' (worried about Annie) which means he gets used and imprisoned. He also gives Laura bad advice (not to take the ring), which she ends up ignoring in the end, and manages to 'save' herself from being possessed by Bob. Fados fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 05:48
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:I imagine he'd give Kojima a pat on the back for writing the final hour or two of that game. *Gordon Cole voice* "What's the deal with all the butts?"
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Jun 2, 2017 06:26
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Fados posted:Not really, Coop is pretty much completely defeated by Window Earle at the end of the second season and enters the lodge with 'imperfect courage' (worried about Annie) which means he gets used and imprisoned. He also gives Laura bad advice (not to take the ring), which she ends up ignoring in the end, and manages to 'save' herself from being possessed by Bob. How is this your interpretation when Earle is shown to be caught by BOB? Coop just has a chase with his doppel for a bit and gets lost. Quite a bit different, I would say.
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Jun 2, 2017 13:47
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TheMaestroso posted:How is this your interpretation when Earle is shown to be caught by BOB? Coop just has a chase with his doppel for a bit and gets lost. Quite a bit different, I would say. He loses Annie and is forced to enter the most dangerous thing in existence to try to save her (and fails - the Lodge arbitrarily spits her back out, not Cooper). Cooper is forced to obey Earle and is clearly saved in this regard by BOB getting mad. He then fails to stand up to his shadow and is lost for 25 years. That's pretty clearly a failure. Honestly it's not really a dig against Cooper, he is just a man, not an expertly trained shaman or anything. He's special enough just to escape the lodge now, something Desmond and Jeffries were not able to do at all. Edit: What Cooper should have done is extremely cold blooded and out of character - he should have never entered the Lodge. BOB would have dealt with Earle one way or the other and I doubt Annie's fate would have been any different (is she even alive after FWWM?). Simply note it as a loss and continue working on the Blue Rose in the real world with everything he had already learned. Kulkasha fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 13:56
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Kulkasha posted:He loses Annie and is forced to enter the most dangerous thing in existence to try to save her (and fails - the Lodge arbitrarily spits her back out, not Cooper). Cooper is forced to obey Earle and is clearly saved in this regard by BOB getting mad. He then fails to stand up to his shadow and is lost for 25 years. That's pretty clearly a failure. He didn't get destroyed like Earle did. That's the difference I was talking about. quote:BOB would have dealt with Earle one way or the other and I doubt Annie's fate would have been any different (is she even alive after FWWM?). They show her in the hospital, alive, and then the resident nurse sees the ring on her finger and takes it.
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Jun 2, 2017 14:08
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Fados posted:He also gives Laura bad advice (not to take the ring), which she ends up ignoring in the end, and manages to 'save' herself from being possessed by Bob. Is there any evidence I might be missing supporting either theory?
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Jun 2, 2017 14:17
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TheMaestroso posted:How is this your interpretation when Earle is shown to be caught by BOB? Coop just has a chase with his doppel for a bit and gets lost. Quite a bit different, I would say. It's clear Earle represents to Dale his past failures to save people important to him, both his former lover and even Laura, and then Annie who was at risk. Earle's objective was to destablilize Dale and get him into the Lodge. In a way I guess you're right in that it's not really Earle who defeats Cooper, since he is himself used as a tool by BoB, who I think is really only interested in Dale. But it's BOB who defeats Dale: I think he manages to do this because Dale like the rest of Twin Peaks, and this is explored in Fire Walk With Me, never really fully understood Laura and the depths of her rage, in part because he also didnt fully understood BOB and his puppet-master relation with Leland, or rather the ambiguity in regards to that relationship. By telling Laura to 'not take the (Mike's) ring' in FWWM, Cooper is well intentioned, he wants to avoid Laura getting killed, he wants to avoid getting called into Twin Peaks, and putting everyone else at risk, but he doesn't get that Laura is not gonna be able to just take it, and if even if she didn't die, the result, getting possessed by BOB would be even worse, her soul would be destroyed, and she would turn into a source of corruption and misery to everyone she ever cared for. Her sacrifice was necessary, the town, could not stay in it's blissful ignorance of it's rotten core, and by ultimately not realizing this, Coop went in with imperfect courage, failed his Fire Walking, and was put into stasis. So now, 25 years later, he's reborn again, gets another chance at understanding this primordial evil. I think reborn really is the apt term, I now think that purple transition zone is some kind of womb, with "Mother's" door knocking it's beating irregular heart. He's then learning how to go to potty, needs someone to put his shoes on, and is learning how to speak through imitation.
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Jun 2, 2017 14:25
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TheMaestroso posted:They show her in the hospital, alive, and then the resident nurse sees the ring on her finger and takes it.
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Jun 2, 2017 14:31
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In an aside I read somewhere that Lynch was against the bad ending and cliffhanger of the second season, wanting a hopeful finale more in line with his previous work, and that it was Frost who insisted that BOB wins the final showdown. Although Lynch was opposed, I think he took it to heart when making Fire Walk With Me, which he basically wrote alone, and Coop's failure helped him give a great depth and centrality to the story Laura Palmer which grounded the series and eventually made it much more consistent.
Fados fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 14:38
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I'm rewatching the pilot. Where does BOB's Mirror flash cameo happen, or was that not actually used in the film and we just see him crouching behind a bed?
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Jun 2, 2017 17:18
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Fados posted:In an aside I read somewhere that Lynch was against the bad ending and cliffhanger of the second season, wanting a hopeful finale more in line with his previous work, and that it was Frost who insisted that BOB wins the final showdown. Although Lynch was opposed, I think he took it to heart when making Fire Walk With Me, which he basically wrote alone, and Coop's failure helped him give a great depth and centrality to the story Laura Palmer which grounded the series and eventually made it much more consistent. The last episode was also co-wrote by Robert Engels, who helped with the writing on Fire Walk With Me. Also did a bunch of Season 2 stuff.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:25
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I'm rewatching the pilot. Where does BOB's Mirror flash cameo happen, or was that not actually used in the film and we just see him crouching behind a bed? You can see his reflection in the scene at the end where Sarah Palmer screams edit: 
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Jun 2, 2017 17:33
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Saw this on facebook, the warehouse box scene synced up with the purple room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg I'm not convinced there is any relevant connection there. I feel like its just people see what they want to see, but the 2 scenes do have eerily similar pacing.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:30
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Connellingus posted:This is interesting to me, because I recently saw someone else also interpret the ring as something that protects people from being possessed, but personally my takeaway was that it's something Lodge residents use to mark their victims (i.e. Laura, Teresa Banks, Agent Desmond who disappears after picking it up). This would explain why Cooper wouldn't have wanted Laura to take it, though admittedly I'm not sure how to account for Gerard throwing Laura the ring in FWWM. In light of the other theory it makes sense that this would be to protect her from being possessed, but it's debatable whether he was really doing her any favors since it resulted in her getting killed and trapped in the Black Lodge anyway. I don't think Laura is trapped in the lodge. Her Dopplerganger is there, but the true her presumably went to the good lodge.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:35
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eSporks posted:Saw this on facebook, the warehouse box scene synced up with the purple room. The connection is there, in the first part he disappears exactly when they come in, and in the second the stabbing noises the creature does killing the couple sync up with the similar noises shut-eyed woman does while preventing cooper to come closer to the switch.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:48
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't think Laura is trapped in the lodge. Her Dopplerganger is there, but the true her presumably went to the good lodge. Yeah, my interpretation of the scene where she opens her face is what's left in the Red Room is a husk of who she was.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:11
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't think Laura is trapped in the lodge. Her Dopplerganger is there, but the true her presumably went to the good lodge. So Doppelgangers aren't inherently malicious or violent, it seems? Like, Violent Cooper is definitely a bad dude, but Shadow Laura seems ok, as does Shadow Leland. Not that I believe Leland is 100% innocent of having some bad intentions towards Laura, even if it's just some mild creepiness and not actual harm like BOB was doing.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:14
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Fados posted:The connection is there, in the first part he disappears exactly when they come in, and in the second the stabbing noises the creature does killing the couple sync up with the similar noises shut-eyed woman does while preventing cooper to come closer to the switch.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:59
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:So Doppelgangers aren't inherently malicious or violent, it seems? Like, Violent Cooper is definitely a bad dude, but Shadow Laura seems ok, as does Shadow Leland. Well if the Doppelganger is just the yin to the normal person's yang then it stands to reason that some of them wouldn't be bad. Windom Earle would have a good Doppleganger, for example. Coops is evil as hell because the real Coop is just about a perfect good dude.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:09
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Laura's doppelganger is so horrific her screaming causes Cooper to physical injury. I don't know how anyone could watch that scene and think 'huh, she seems okay'
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Jun 2, 2017 20:32
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Shibawanko posted:The first time I ever saw anything about Twin Peaks was a scene of Bob appearing to someone who screamed at him and my first impression is that it must be an absurd comedy because how could anyone be scared of such a goofy looking long haired guy. Frank Silva looks like the kind of guy who does macrame and gives out his pieces for free to his neighbors. I still think the original Twin Peaks is a comedy. I know I spent most episodes laughing my rear end off. Even the new season I spend a lot of time laughing.  Maybe I'm just insane.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:36
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PureRok posted:I still think the original Twin Peaks is a comedy. I know I spent most episodes laughing my rear end off. Even the new season I spend a lot of time laughing. I wouldn't say that, but I will say your doppelganger is probably sane.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:54
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