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If you bought them in the 70s, are you still paying any mortgage interest on them? But no, don't settle for anything but outright removal.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:43
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Subjunctive posted:If you bought them in the 70s, are you still paying any mortgage interest on them? Oops, sorry - I was referring to the previous Prop 13 derail, not the Mortgage Interest Deduction one. Apologies.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:44
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Sundae posted:Oops, sorry - I was referring to the previous Prop 13 derail, not the Mortgage Interest Deduction one. Apologies. Ah, my bad!
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Jun 2, 2017 19:46
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Construction management needs at least a $60k truck for an entry internship.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:51
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22 Eargesplitten posted:How new are we talking? I have never been in a truck or van that was as comfortable as my beat up old Subaru or Escort. Minivans are really great these days. I have a Honda Odyssey that is super comfortable with infinitely adjustable driver and front passenger seats. I drove a rental Toyota Sienna for a couple days that was pretty nice as well. Who cares about the other seats in back? Those are for children. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6euvs4/auto_loan_and_a_loan_on_a_camper_help/ Auto loan and a loan on a camper... Help (self.personalfinance) submitted 3 hours ago * by DarthReeder quote:So my fiance and I have decided that we are going to take the path less traveled and live full time in a camper. The campers we have been looking at far exceed the towing capability of my silverado 1500, so i need to upgrade to a 3500 dually to tow the 16000lb home on wheels. Putting it out there, my credit is god awful, under 630 and my attempts to purchase a truck have led me to monthly payments of 1200-1600. This is after a $5k downpayment btw. But Technically I could afford such payments, but id much rather not. Obviously. I could have my fiance co-sign, but that leads me to challenge numero dos. Financing a camper whilst financing a truck. I wanted to cosign with her only on the camper, and her credit is better than mine but not by much. She is planning on starting an online business selling art stuff and is also a real estate agent so iv thought maybe we could buy the camper through her business because its where she will be producing her products. Just an idea i guess. Would you buy a house from a realtor who lived in a camper? With three animals?
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Jun 2, 2017 19:56
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I'd say the road less traveled isn't the one that leads directly into financial ruin there, Reddit poster!
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Jun 2, 2017 20:06
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LLCoolJD posted:An outspoken liberal friend of mine recently posted a "rich get richer" envy article railing against the benefits homeowners receive through the mortgage interest tax deduction. The article featured hard-up Americans who had to rent and who lacked the "wealth" to buy a home and the benefits that come with it. I respect the trolling but dude this thread has enough politics derails as it is
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Jun 2, 2017 20:07
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22 Eargesplitten posted:How new are we talking? I have never been in a truck or van that was as comfortable as my beat up old Subaru or Escort. 2013 and newer basically.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:44
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LLCoolJD posted:An outspoken liberal friend of mine recently posted a "rich get richer" envy article railing against the benefits homeowners receive through the mortgage interest tax deduction. The article featured hard-up Americans who had to rent and who lacked the "wealth" to buy a home and the benefits that come with it. Is this the article you're talking about? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/magazine/how-homeownership-became-the-engine-of-american-inequality.html "We tend to speak about the poor as if they didn’t live in the same society, as if our gains and their losses weren’t intertwined. Conservatives explain poverty by pointing to “individual factors,” like bad decisions or the rise of single-parent families; liberals refer to “structural causes,” like the decline of manufacturing or the historical legacies of racial discrimination. Usually pitted against each other, each perspective serves a similar function: letting us off the hook by asserting that there is a deep-rooted, troubling problem — more than one in six Americans does not make enough to afford basic necessities — that most of us bear no responsibility for."
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Jun 2, 2017 21:30
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canyoneer posted:Minivans are really great these days. I have a Honda Odyssey that is super comfortable with infinitely adjustable driver and front passenger seats. I drove a rental Toyota Sienna for a couple days that was pretty nice as well. I was thinking like full sized van. My mom always had pretty comfortable minivans until she no longer needed that many seats. I had a 2015 E-150 that was not comfortable at all, and that's close enough to a truck. Other than that the most recent have been mid to late 2000s trucks. GWM: Lee Iacocca convincing people to pay 10x as much for trucks within 20 years.
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Jun 2, 2017 21:33
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It is a constant frustration of mine that America has decided to stop building light pickups. Sometimes you just need a truck bed and not a rolling fortress.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:09
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Giant Isopod posted:It is a constant frustration of mine that America has decided to stop building light pickups. Sometimes you just need a truck bed and not a rolling fortress. See also the lack of wagons. A hatchback with even more cargo space? As a family car for people with one or two kids it's unbeatable.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:15
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Hyrax Attack! posted:This article isn't humorous but does offer an interesting look at the hopelessness of generational disability and the accompanying poor education leading to bad-with-money. Christ this is bleak. Disability effectively functions as mincome for a wide swath of the country, and I don't begrudge them that at all, but what a hellish life. I don't even really see a "candles" in their budget, since even cable TV doesn't seem like an extravagance when you've got nothing else to enjoy in life.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:39
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ma i married a tuna posted:See also the lack of wagons. A hatchback with even more cargo space? As a family car for people with one or two kids it's unbeatable. PriusV! (Yeah I know, it's Japanese.)
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Jun 2, 2017 22:40
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ma i married a tuna posted:See also the lack of wagons. A hatchback with even more cargo space? As a family car for people with one or two kids it's unbeatable. My mom had a datsun 510 wagon when I was a kid that went over 250k. No AC and the vinyl seats burned like hell in the summer if you were wearing shorts. My family took so many trips in that car with two dogs and camping gear. My dad would use it to take me into the mountains on unimproved roads to go camping. The fact that nobody used child seats or cared if kids were comfortable probably allowed them to do all that with a smaller backseat area than would work today but station wagons are awesome.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Christ this is bleak. Disability effectively functions as mincome for a wide swath of the country, and I don't begrudge them that at all, but what a hellish life. I don't even really see a "candles" in their budget, since even cable TV doesn't seem like an extravagance when you've got nothing else to enjoy in life. I'm confused how $600/month for electricity breaks down (as someone who's only ever paid electricity bills for apartments with 0-2 roommates) but I'm guessing that has a lot of stuff rolled in with it. I'm with you though, I wouldn't blame someone for taking literally any escape possible from that. Stuff like the one twin eating ramen noodles microwaved with a bunch of hot sauce for every meal and that not even being a concern when he isn't having violent stomach pain absolutely destroys me.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:03
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Power of Pecota posted:I'm confused how $600/month for electricity breaks down (as someone who's only ever paid electricity bills for apartments with 0-2 roommates) but I'm guessing that has a lot of stuff rolled in with it. I live in a 3500 square foot house in the desert, with two 5 ton AC units and a pool and I pay the US average cost for electricity at 12-13 cents per KW/h and my highest bill ever in a summer month has been $475, and that was when I first moved in before I had a chance to replace some weather stripping and insulate the attic hatch and a bunch of other stuff. The average temperature for the entire month, including night time, is around 90 degrees.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:13
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Power of Pecota posted:I'm confused how $600/month for electricity breaks down (as someone who's only ever paid electricity bills for apartments with 0-2 roommates) but I'm guessing that has a lot of stuff rolled in with it. They probably didn't pay it for a few months.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:15
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Power of Pecota posted:I'm confused how $600/month for electricity breaks down (as someone who's only ever paid electricity bills for apartments with 0-2 roommates) but I'm guessing that has a lot of stuff rolled in with it. The article says that's with some late payments, and the fees for that get steep. If it's trash, water, & power all combined like is common some places it could easily be over a hundred a month even if they don't have AC.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:43
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 No comment needed? Eldred posted:Is this the article you're talking about? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/magazine/how-homeownership-became-the-engine-of-american-inequality.html Yes, that's the one. Complaining about the mortgage interest tax deduction that helps homeowners afford maintenance costs on their home seemed like a silly target to be aiming for. Senor Dog posted:I respect the trolling but dude this thread has enough politics derails as it is In and of themselves those two posts presented "bad with money" decisions (e.g. "I was convicted of robbery, and shockingly now I am in an economic pit!"). But I see your point and will dial it back a bit from here on out.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:48
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LLCoolJD posted:Yes, that's the one. Complaining about the mortgage interest tax deduction that helps homeowners afford maintenance costs on their home seemed like a silly target to be aiming for. Once again, over 50% of the mortgage interest handout goes to filers with over $100k AGI.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:54
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Once again, over 50% of the mortgage interest handout goes to filers with over $100k AGI. About 80% of all tax money is collected from people with over $100k AGI, so if they only get 50% of the benefit from the mortgage interest deduction that seems like a good deal for people under $100k.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:56
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if that's the only angle you look at it, i guess but it's clearly detrimental to housing prices and encourages people to take out bigger loans, not to mention it's become a huge drain on taxes that could be collected.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:59
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LLCoolJD posted:
Was a horse driving?
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Jun 3, 2017 00:01
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Was a horse driving? Seahorse.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:07
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Subjunctive posted:Seahorse.  Looks more like a lakehorse though. Pondhorse?
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Jun 3, 2017 00:16
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Droo posted:About 80% of all tax money is collected from people with over $100k AGI, so if they only get 50% of the benefit from the mortgage interest deduction that seems like a good deal for people under $100k. Pulling numbers out of your rear end, or what? As of 2011, the latest year for which details on individual deductions are available (so comparable to the total income tax data), filers with AGIs over $100k paid under 75% of federal income taxes. And of course that's only the federal income tax load, the federal non-income, state, and local tax loads all tend to be more regressive than federal income tax. It's almost as if all of this data is publicly available - https://www.irs.gov/uac/soi-tax-stats-individual-income-tax-returns-publication-1304-complete-report The mortgage interest rate deduction is a handout for the relatively wealthy, and is far larger than welfare and housing assistance and food stamps combined. And plenty of people getting that handout are calling out poor people for getting basic assistance - like our friend in this very thread that laments the costs of UHC while championing this deduction. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 00:17
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Pulling numbers out of your rear end, or what? As of 2011, the latest year for which details on individual deductions are available (so comparable to the mortgage deduction data), filers with AGIs over $100k paid 61% of federal income taxes. And of course that's only the federal income tax load, the federal non-income, state, and local tax loads all tend to be more regressive than federal income tax. My 80% number came from the Pew research center. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/13/high-income-americans-pay-most-income-taxes-but-enough-to-be-fair/ Your own link, in table 3.5 year 2014, shows that in 2014 people under $100k paid $317,207,147,000 in tax and people over $100k paid $1,085,180,038,000 making the "over $100K" percentage 77.38% of all federal income tax. In table 3.2 for year 2014, the total is 79.78%.I honestly have no idea hwo you could possibly come up with 61% from the data you yourself linked for the most recent year available. Here is the data from table 3.2, year 2014: code:Droo fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 00:29
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:The mortgage interest rate deduction is a handout for the relatively wealthy, and is far larger than welfare and food stamps combined. There's a huge difference between not taxing someone for something and giving free things away to people. To put it in the parlance of this thread, it is the difference between giving someone a free horse and refraining from taxing a horse owned by someone who paid for it in full with their own bad-with-money fund.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:31
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LLCoolJD posted:There's a huge difference between not taxing someone for something and giving free things away to people. That's a difference we created culturally though, specifically so you would feel that one group of people deserves their free government money and the other group doesn't.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:33
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Droo posted:My 80% number came from the Pew research center. In 2011, the latest year for which the total amounts of each deduction are available, it looks like this:  And once again, federal income tax is only a fraction of the total tax load that most people are subject to. e: for reference, mortgage interest deduction data: 
AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 00:33
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LLCoolJD posted:There's a huge difference between not taxing someone for something and giving free things away to people. Not really, no.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:34
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https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/6evvf9/selling_junker_car_dude_wants_to_send_me_a_check/ Is this scam a scam? It feels like a scam.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:36
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:In 2011, the latest year for which the total amounts of each deduction are available, it looks like this: Your own image now seems to be showing that people over 100k paid about 75% of the tax load in 2011, which seems like a reasonable number and is still not 61%.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:39
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LLCoolJD posted:There's a huge difference between not taxing someone for something and giving free things away to people. Ah yes "the only moral welfare is my welfare"
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Jun 3, 2017 00:46
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Droo posted:Your own image now seems to be showing that people over 100k paid about 75% of the tax load in 2011, which seems like a reasonable number and is still not 61%. The 61% was a (since corrected) typo - I transposed a couple of numbers. It still doesn't change that (a) your 80% number was apparently arbitrary and (b) federal income tax is only a portion of overall tax load, and relatively progressive compared to other taxes meaning the overall load hits lower incomes filers harder. None of this changes that the mortgage interest rate deduction is larger than welfare, food stamps, and housing vouchers combined, AND over 50% of the benefit goes to filers with over $100k AGI (~14% of total filers).
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Jun 3, 2017 00:46
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Putting the truck before the boat: not as good of an idea as you might think.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:51
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:The 61% was a (since corrected) typo - I transposed a couple of numbers. It still doesn't change that (a) your 80% number was apparently arbitrary and (b) federal income tax is only a portion of overall tax load, and relatively progressive compared to other taxes meaning the overall load hits lower incomes filers harder. My numbers were literally correct and from multiple sources including your own, and yet you continue to call them "arbitrary" so at this point I assume you are too stupid to understand anything, but I will try anyway. In 2011, the deduction looked like this: 1: Take $750 in tax revenue from people who make over $100K and $250 from people who make less than $100k 2: Give $510 back to people who make over $100K and $490 back to people who make less than $100k To me, that looks like a net transfer of $240 from people who make over $100k to people who make under $100k, which you would essentially get rid of by removing the mortgage interest deduction. So I don't see how it's good for people who make less than $100k to just outright remove the deduction. You would have to make a different argument, such as "we should replace the deduction with more food stamps" in order to make that case.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:57
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Droo posted:My numbers were literally correct and from multiple sources including your own, and yet you continue to call them "arbitrary" so at this point I assume you are too stupid to understand anything, but I will try anyway. ~51% of the deduction went to filers with AGI over $100k, compared to ~53% of AGI going to filers with over $100k AGI. It is effectively break-even as far as redistribution goes - in other words, a tax benefit for those already doing well. It would absolutely be preferable, from an income distribution standpoint, to take the spending on the mortgage interest deduction and divert it to direct assistance for the poor. It is welfare that is mostly directed at people who do not need it.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:06
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LLCoolJD posted:There's a huge difference between not taxing someone for something and giving free things away to people. There literally isn't. A tax credit is just spending through the tax code. How much money does a person end up with in each scenario? A) I gave you a $100 shovel for free. B) I gave you a $100 instant rebate for buying a $100 shovel.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:49
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