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pram posted:deleting your efi partition wouldnt brick your hardware the efi nvram variables is a very different thing from the efi partition though, they get exposed as files under /sys/firmware/efi/efivars, and as noted systemd mounts them as read-write. if you delete them (e.g. the ol' accidental rm -rf on some root directory) a lot of hardware is bricked, properly irretrievably so (e.g. it has variables which record how the various buses etc. are attached, and it becomes unable to initialize anything without them) it has been suggested that systemd should only mount efivars writeable for a moment when it needs to change something, and then return it to read-only, but the most infuriating of unhelpful oss nerd responses is trotted out on this; "it is not our problem, the hardware manufacturers should not make it possible to brick machines that way"
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Jun 2, 2017 11:01
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again, i think this is already fixed by making important efivarfs entries immutable. but i'm just a lowly whitenoise poster, no noone notices what i write anyway! https://lwn.net/Articles/675073/
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Jun 2, 2017 11:50
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covefivarfs
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Jun 2, 2017 12:00
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Tankakern posted:again, i think this is already fixed by making important efivarfs entries immutable. but i'm just a lowly whitenoise poster, no noone notices what i write anyway! sorry v  vwasn't that important an issue either really, but did serve a showcase of linux software maintainers pointlessly being assholes about things, and poettering does not have the store of historic goodwill that linus does
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Jun 2, 2017 12:19
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Tankakern posted:again, i think this is already fixed by making important efivarfs entries immutable. but i'm just a lowly whitenoise poster, no noone notices what i write anyway! yeah, but the systemd dude just sticking his fingers in his ears saying "nah nah nah not my problem not listening nah nah nah" instead of just changing the default efivarfs mount to read-only (which it should be anyway IMHO) was pretty  and unhelpful.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:58
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:
wait hold on aren't these the same kind of turbonerds who would screech about how the big bad hardware corporation is locking down the hardware so that good honest tinkerers who know what they're doing can do as they please with THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY ??
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Jun 2, 2017 22:13
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:wait hold on aren't these the same kind of turbonerds who would screech about how the big bad hardware corporation is locking down the hardware so that good honest tinkerers who know what they're doing can do as they please with THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY ?? lennart is a bully and systemd is botnet
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Jun 2, 2017 22:30
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lannart hitlering
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Jun 2, 2017 22:31
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I'm fairly sure I'm working with a lennart right now. It is not a pleasant experience.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:31
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MY SOFTWARE IS THE BEST AND YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS
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Jun 2, 2017 22:32
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No, gently caress you, you just broke your own loving api. Eat a shitbowl of dicks.
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Jun 2, 2017 22:32
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OWLS! posted:I'm fairly sure I'm working with a lennart right now. you work with a guy who can get poo poo done despite working in a hostile and incompetent environment? who deflects threats and infinite loathing for having the gall to sidestep the absurd kafkaesque beaurocracies of petty fiefdoms, all for the greater good?
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Jun 2, 2017 23:54
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10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. Corinthians 1:10-17
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Jun 2, 2017 23:55
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OldAlias posted:you work with a guy who can get poo poo done despite working in a hostile and incompetent environment? who deflects threats and infinite loathing for having the gall to sidestep the absurd kafkaesque beaurocracies of petty fiefdoms, all for the greater good? this is an extremely bad post
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Jun 3, 2017 05:00
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RISCy Business posted:this is an extremely bad post dont sign
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Jun 3, 2017 05:33
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Doc Block posted:yeah, but the systemd dude just sticking his fingers in his ears saying "nah nah nah not my problem not listening nah nah nah" instead of just changing the default efivarfs mount to read-only (which it should be anyway IMHO) was pretty  you need rw access for efibootmgr and stuff. the immutable setting was the right one, and lennart did the right thing.
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Jun 3, 2017 10:02
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there's nothing wrong with systemd
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Jun 3, 2017 10:03
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systemd haters will latch onto any ill-conceived technical argument they can dig up, resulting it these arbritrary personal attacks without technical merit
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Jun 3, 2017 10:04
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Tankakern posted:systemd haters will latch onto any ill-conceived technical argument they can dig up, because it allows them to pretend their arbritrary personal attacks have technical merit ftfy
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Jun 3, 2017 10:07
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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it's funny when some guy people don't like for no reason makes a mistake then dorks start melting down because of their dumb failbrains malfunctioning
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Jun 3, 2017 10:07
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qhat posted:it's funny when some guy people don't like for no reason makes a mistake then dorks start melting down because of their dumb failbrains malfunctioning i for one, personally cannot believe that systemd guy hasn't memorized and internalized all of the behavior of rm i bet he doesn't even know about nmap -oS - hostname!
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Jun 3, 2017 11:05
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It's pretty cool that that guy continues to make valuable contributions to the open source community despite a bunch of virgin mouthbreathing troglodytes calling him a oval office at every possible opportunity
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Jun 3, 2017 11:14
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rather more fundamentally systemd and pulsleaudio are both pretty thoroughly irrelevant software, the only actually interesting aspect subject of discussion is the multiple facets of lack of professionalism in the linux community
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Jun 3, 2017 12:17
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qhat posted:there's nothing wrong with systemd this guy gets it
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Jun 3, 2017 15:27
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:rather more fundamentally systemd and pulsleaudio are both pretty thoroughly irrelevant software, the only actually interesting aspect subject of discussion is the multiple facets of lack of professionalism in the linux community windows is good op
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Jun 3, 2017 15:37
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OldAlias posted:you work with a guy who can get poo poo done despite working in a hostile and incompetent environment? who deflects threats and infinite loathing for having the gall to sidestep the absurd kafkaesque beaurocracies of petty fiefdoms, all for the greater good? please do nto accuse linux poettering of being hitler
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Jun 3, 2017 15:41
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Tankakern posted:
it should be mounted read-only by default, then for the few times something needs to be changed it should be remounted as read-write, then remounted back to read-only when done. that's in addition to having some EFI vars being made immutable by the kernel. whole lotta autists ITT
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Jun 3, 2017 17:39
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maybe efi vars shouldn't be a filesystem
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Jun 3, 2017 17:43
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:rather more fundamentally systemd and pulsleaudio are both pretty thoroughly irrelevant software, the only actually interesting aspect subject of discussion is the multiple facets of lack of professionalism in the linux community They make the software largely for free don't they?
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Jun 3, 2017 18:15
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Vanadium posted:maybe efi vars shouldn't be a filesystem b-b-but everything's a file!
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Jun 3, 2017 18:25
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qhat posted:They make the software largely for free don't they? this argument is never good it is not so much that i am asking anyone to be professional either, rather the usual twisted love for pointing out the flaws in others
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Jun 3, 2017 18:39
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Vanadium posted:maybe efi vars shouldn't be a filesystem *devuan apostle bursts in dressed in a robe stitched from xxl linux con tshirts* MY FRIEND HAVE YOU HEARD THE GOOD NEWS OF THE UNIX PHILOSOPHY. WE ARE ALL BUT FILES IN RITCHIES EYES
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Jun 3, 2017 18:53
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:this argument is never good He's not being paid so he doesn't owe you an ounce of "professionalism" you stupid oval office
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Jun 3, 2017 18:57
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i am not saying he owes me professionalism, i am saying it is a p. fun activity to point and laugh at unprofessional idiots willingly wallowing in the poo poo shoveled by their peers. almost the point of the forum even
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Jun 3, 2017 19:23
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Doc Block posted:it should be mounted read-only by default, then for the few times something needs to be changed it should be remounted as read-write, then remounted back to read-only when done. just because you say that it should be like that, doesn't mean that it should you can't muck around with remounts and poo poo, you don't always know what setup a system has. the immutable setup is the only sane one
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Jun 3, 2017 19:26
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"Hmm, yes, EFI vars should always be writeable because maybe systemd needs to change the boot volume every once in a blue moon." edit: and yes, I know some are made immutable by the kernel, but even the EFI vars that won't brick the system if changed shouldn't be writeable without going through some hoops first to prevent accidents. Doc Block fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 19:32
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if it's going to pretend to be a filesystem for whatever stupid loving reason maybe it should also recognize the arcane filesystem feature known as "access permissions"
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Jun 3, 2017 19:56
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i am not saying he owes me professionalism, i am saying it is a p. fun activity to point and laugh at unprofessional idiots willingly wallowing in the poo poo shoveled by their peers. almost the point of the forum even He's actually really helpful if ppl actively contribute code instead of just whining about an obscure thing and then melting down when he makes a mistake
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Jun 3, 2017 21:14
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rjmccall posted:if it's going to pretend to be a filesystem for whatever stupid loving reason maybe it should also recognize the arcane filesystem feature known as "access permissions"
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Jun 3, 2017 22:07
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why is there an expectation that a system will still be bootable after rimming the whole disk???
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Jun 3, 2017 22:08
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