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Huh. Just saw someone point out that the wording on the various deep strike rules are that they are set up in orbit/teleportarium/dank holes. Which means a) you can't take the first turn by declaring half your force is in reserve, as you need to declare each of them as setting up a unit. Which in turn means that b) you can declare your units in deep strike instead of having to set up a unit on the table.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:08
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well, yeah, obviously. Otherwise it would just be "you may decide to take the first turn with no drawbacks" because you'd just deep strike them to wherever they would be after a move on the first turn.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:15
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Huh. This is a Good Thing. One thing you could do in AoS was have an entire army in a battalion, then deploy it all at once to guarantee going first. I'm glad they're iterating on that.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:16
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Is it becoming more apparent to use power level vs points? At fist I was thinking that PL would be mostly overlooked, however it takes only 10 minutes or so to theorycraft a 75 PWR list when a full points list takes about an hour.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:51
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OhDearGodNo posted:Is it becoming more apparent to use power level vs points? I haven't tried PP and while I agree it seems it might be better for a quick pick up and play game, a lot of that time is because points are cumbersomely dictated to the player right now. When an app hits, official or otherwise, it shouldn't take near the same time.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:55
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Could use some thoughts on the following Ultramarines list. First off I opted for mechanized force for a couple reasons. It seemed the only way to truly make good use of Guilliman. He is to fast for foot sloggers, and Tactical Marines and Devastators are the cheapest way to get access to most heavy weapons. You will also notice I went heavy of razorbacks with near minimum squads but never maximizing weapon choices(for example no 4x Heavy weapons on devastators). My thinking is when transports are destroyed you have to roll dice for everyone inside and any rolls of 1 result in immediate death for a model. Since all units have split fire there is no reason to not spread load weapons wherever possible to minimize loses due to a vehicles initial destruction or if it explodes. Smaller units also decrease the potential loses due to morale tests. I can easily see a 10 man unit losing 6 guys, only for the other 4 to run off the table. With 5-6 Man units either not enough damage is suffered to lose anyone to a poor morale roll, or the entire unit dies anyway, making morale irrelevant. Lastly a mobile force doesn't suffer much from the -1 to moving a shooting with Heavy Weapons purely thanks to Guilliman's rerolls, and his rerolls effect overwatch as well putting up a blistering level of fire. Anyway, here we go. Battalion Detachment - 1988 Headquarters - 204 Captain Sicarius - 132 - Perhaps a controversial choice, but your standard Captain is 77 points, and provides nothing that Guilliman doesn't. Sicarius however on top of having a decent weapon loadout(mortal wound causing sword), grants all Tactical Marines the ability to fight first as if they have charged. This allows me to be more reckless with my tacticals, and even gives me the privilege to not charge forcing my opponent into more overwatch. Chaplain - 72 - The cheapest HQ option in a Marine army. Grants his leadership to units within 6 inches, however he doesn't do much beyond that other than teaming up with Sicarius and Guilliman. Elites - 70 Eversor Assassin - 70 - So if this list has a weakness, it is having very little reach beyond 24-36 inches. Instead of trying to match my enemy's guns, the Eversor has the ability to launch a charge immediately upon infiltrating, 3d6 charge with the ability to reroll using CPs. If my opponent has something like Broadsides/Las-Devs/Predator this is a cheap way to kill them or tie them up. Troops - 856 Tactical Marine Squad - 5x Marines - Razorback w/ Assault Cannon + Meltagun + Combi-Melta + Power Axe - 206 Tactical Marine Squad - 5x Marines - Razorback w/ Assault Cannon + Meltagun + Combi-Melta + Power Axe - 206 Tactical Marine Squad - 6x Marines - Razorback w/ Assault Cannon + Meltagun + Combi-Melta + Power Axe - 219 Tactical Marine Squad - 10x Marines - Rhino + Flamer + Combi-Flamer + Power axe - 225 Heavy Support - 498 Devastator Marine Squad - 6x Marines - Razorback w/ Heavy Bolter + 3x Grav-Cannon + Power Axe - 249 - So Grav-Cannons might create some debate here, but after looking at them I feel they are worth the squeeze due to versatility. Coupled with Guilliman's rerolling they can put punishment on vehicles on par with Lascannons while still being effective against all infantry types, especially heavy infantry. Devastator Marine Squad - 6x Marines - Razorback w/ Heavy Bolter + 3x Grav-Cannon + Power Axe - 249 Super Heavy Detachment Roboute Guilliman - 360 - So our primary ability is granting total rerolls to hit and wound within 6 inches. He also grants 3 Command Points(putting me at 9). A secondary 12 inch aura grants +1 to advance and charges, and rerolls 1s to hit for all Imperial Units(irrelevant) and morale tests(Marines already have this). So basically a spearhead of armor with nearly 40 power armored bodies all with reroll wounds/hits, with screening tacticals that go first in combat.
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Jun 4, 2017 16:56
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So I noticed that the sternguard veteran sgt can replace his bolt pistol with an item from the sgt equipment list, unlike most sgts who have to replace both the pistol and bolter This means he can have a combi bolter plus his special issue boltgun. I need to figure out where to get a left handed bolter
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Jun 4, 2017 18:10
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Ok, stream is live. We're setting up now. https://www.twitch.tv/thechirurgeon
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Jun 4, 2017 18:44
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chutche2 posted:So I noticed that the sternguard veteran sgt can replace his bolt pistol with an item from the sgt equipment list, unlike most sgts who have to replace both the pistol and bolter Why can't you just cut a pistol off of a left hand and put on a bolter with no handle?
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Jun 4, 2017 18:47
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RagnarokAngel posted:I haven't tried PP and while I agree it seems it might be better for a quick pick up and play game, a lot of that time is because points are cumbersomely dictated to the player right now. When an app hits, official or otherwise, it shouldn't take near the same time. Step 1: Make points as confusing and painful as possible Step 2: Get rid of points, have community glad to get rid of it instead of fixing it Step 3: Get the community to stop complaining about imbalance through self regulation and whinging
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Jun 4, 2017 18:54
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TheChirurgeon posted:Ok, stream is live. We're setting up now. https://www.twitch.tv/thechirurgeon Why are you nerds arguing about fruit crops and not playing the game? BIG MEATY SHITS fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 18:56
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TheChirurgeon posted:Ok, stream is live. We're setting up now. https://www.twitch.tv/thechirurgeon Finally I can sate my thirst for denim crotch shots.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:04
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TheChirurgeon posted:Ok, stream is live. We're setting up now. https://www.twitch.tv/thechirurgeon im the shorts guy
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Jun 4, 2017 19:07
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LordAba posted:Step 1: Make points as confusing and painful as possible Eldrad Ulthran appears JUST AS PLANNED
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Jun 4, 2017 19:16
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some guy posting various tidbits from dark imperium posted:>Aggressors - Gravis clad warriors with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flame gauntlets.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:17
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OhDearGodNo posted:Is it becoming more apparent to use power level vs points? The difference can be significant. I just looked at the 1000 point 'first game' Chaos List I came up with. 50 power is theoretically the equivalent of 1000 points. But when I added it up by power rating it came in at 62, more than a 20% difference.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:21
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Deptfordx posted:The difference can be significant. I just looked at the 1000 point 'first game' Chaos List I came up with. 50 power is theoretically the equivalent of 1000 points. But when I added it up by power rating it came in at 62, more than a 20% difference. I have a feeling this will mean the big lug won't see much play.  But on the other hand, carnifexes. 
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Jun 4, 2017 19:26
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Safety Factor posted:Yeah, there are some pretty big points/power discrepancies. For example, a haruspex is 12 power while a carnifex is 6. Meanwhile, in Matched play, a haruspex is 278 and a carnifex can range between 94 and 150 or so. It's easily possible to get almost three carnifexes for the price of one haruspex in Matched. It appears to be relatively balanced if you take wargear, but if you specifically want to take a lot more 'less' wargear for particular reasons (Abnormal unit sizes, multiple units with basic weapons instead of upgrades they can get, etc) then your Power will be pretty inflated past your points.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:30
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General Olloth posted:It appears to be relatively balanced if you take wargear, but if you specifically want to take a lot more 'less' wargear for particular reasons (Abnormal unit sizes, multiple units with basic weapons instead of upgrades they can get, etc) then your Power will be pretty inflated past your points. So excited about carnifexes. 
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Jun 4, 2017 19:33
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I know I said the matched points felt like an after thought but now hearing all the differences in battle points it feels like those were an after thought too.
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Jun 4, 2017 19:36
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The list I'm playing against in an hour includes old one eye and two carnifexes so I'll let you know how it goes
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Jun 4, 2017 19:38
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For_Great_Justice posted:I know I said the matched points felt like an after thought but now hearing all the differences in battle points it feels like those were an after thought too. Points are not the objective measure they're being heralded as. I'm not saying power is Cool and Good but a wild swing in points is not necessarily an end all be all. Points can lie too (7th ed wraith knights anyone?)
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Jun 4, 2017 19:40
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"Tau and Adeptus Mechanics" New 8th ed army confirmed
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Jun 4, 2017 19:43
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Safety Factor posted:I want to take a bunch of old-school screamer-killers which come out to 103 each, not counting possible adrenal glands or toxin sacs. I'm sticking to Matched. Unless my math is wrong, the only issue with the Carnifex is that the crushing claw is pretty useless since you have roughly the same results with the double scything (plus it is cheaper). With scything you wound most heavy vehicles on a 5+, with crushing claws you hit on a 5+. So the edge goes to the scything because of the extra attack and reroll. Might be worth it if you had old one eye, but he buffs the scything in the exact same way as the claws. EDIT: Nope, you literally get .1 more wounds with the claws on T7+ with old one eye. Without him, or anything under T7, claws are worse for more points. Classic GW! LordAba fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 19:43
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chutche2 posted:The list I'm playing against in an hour includes old one eye and two carnifexes so I'll let you know how it goes  My planned 1500 point list has Old One Eye and five normal carnifexes. A tervigon and a trygon prime are also along for the ride. It's going to be so
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Jun 4, 2017 19:45
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RagnarokAngel posted:power is Cool and Good wtf
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Jun 4, 2017 19:50
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Moola posted:wtf Did you deliberately ignore the part before that or what's going on here?
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Jun 4, 2017 19:52
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Lord Twisted posted:"Tau and Adeptus Mechanics" Isn't that just the next Imperial Armour book?
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Jun 4, 2017 19:53
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RagnarokAngel posted:Did you deliberately ignore the part before that or what's going on here?  "..."
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Jun 4, 2017 20:04
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FLGS owner just posted this on the community Facebook
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Jun 4, 2017 20:05
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lol
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Jun 4, 2017 20:06
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Who is the guy yelling about the rules? I never want to play with you.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:07
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The callidus has d6+3" infiltrate instead of 9". That's cool as hell.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:36
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RagnarokAngel posted:Points are not the objective measure they're being heralded as. I'm not saying power is Cool and Good but a wild swing in points is not necessarily an end all be all. Points can lie too (7th ed wraith knights anyone?) I get that. It feels like the intent was to be similar to AoS style BP but I am unsure if stuff there has the wealth of options you find in the average squad, character, or monster etc in 40k. The estimates feel off but their view vs a community's will always be different I accept that. Some of the posted in examples past, think it was horospex or whatever the spelling was vs the carnifexes. To me its apples to oranges, but they could have taken a harder look if they did all the playtesting they claimed maybe? Fake edit: phone posting
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Jun 4, 2017 20:37
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chutche2 posted:The list I'm playing against in an hour includes old one eye and two carnifexes so I'll let you know how it goes How'd the cupola 'fexes fare?
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Jun 4, 2017 20:39
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TwingeCrag posted:The callidus has d6+3" infiltrate instead of 9". That's cool as hell. Yeah the Callidus is excellent and I think you'll find her popping up in a lot of lists. 80pts which can semi-reliably show up and waste something in the enemy backfield is good.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:42
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I keep looking at the Vindicare. Snipers are going to be huge against a lot of lists and the ability to hit and wound on 2s, ignore invulnerable saves and cover modifiers and ap -3 means that it's going to be incredibly consistent at putting the hurt on anything you want to die.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:47
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Corrode posted:Yeah the Callidus is excellent and I think you'll find her popping up in a lot of lists. 80pts which can semi-reliably show up and waste something in the enemy backfield is good. Or go ten points cheaper with an Eversor that uses 3d6 to charge, use a CP to reroll your worst result.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:58
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Uroboros posted:Or go ten points cheaper with an Eversor that uses 3d6 to charge, use a CP to reroll your worst result. Yeah the Eversor is a better beatstick for sure. The Callidus is going to catch people out with the forced extra CP though, stuff like that which forces your opponent to react is good. Plus it's easier to block the Eversor with chaff and positioning than the Callidus. Tbh all the assassins look good.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:15
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Man we had a fun shadow war campaign yesterday. Orks actually beat tau in shooting in one game (mainly because tau guy kept rolling poorly).
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Jun 4, 2017 21:22
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