|
Angry Grimace posted:I think Reid Duke just realized he wasn't supposed to mention that there's 800 players at GP Omaha when there is normally 1,200. And one temur energy! That plus the top 32 numbers... whoops.
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:49 |
|
|
They're going to conclude from this that combo is bad aren't they
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:To bring it back to Ban Marvel Chat, the Top 32 of GP Amsterdam was posted. Yea I saw this after posting the top 8 tweet and being somewhat dismissive. I would like to know what the conversion rate was, i.e. was there so many because so many ppl played it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
DoctorOozy posted:Yea I saw this after posting the top 8 tweet and being somewhat dismissive. I would like to know what the conversion rate was, i.e. was there so many because so many ppl played it? 22% of the field played Marvel in Manila and the Top 32 was like 30+% Marvel.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
Siivola posted:My gut feeling is that since actually drawing Ulamog is terrible, Marvel increases the variance of the deck. It's like trying to win by milling the opponent's combo cards away. It's just, the energy shell is solid enough to make the deck perform even if the rolls don't line up. Back in theros khans I had a RDW variant that could win on T4 but it was very christmas land and was the most glass canon deck I've played. That I think is the problem and one that WotC completely misses, there is nothing at all wrong with a deck that can produce a T4 win, the problem comes when that combo is still viable at T14 and everything just durdles out. I don't know if the problem is that there is no explosive agrro deck around to hold combos in check or that the toolkit for some of these decks is just too good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:05
|
|
|
Cat Combo was backbreaking because it was a combo deck in Blue & Red
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Aetherworks Marvel combo would be much more entertaining to watch & less frustrating to play against if it was the version with Paradox Engine, Whales, and Lizards Ulamog is just too crazy to cast on any turn
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
TwistedNails posted:It's his version of playing mismatching sets and random white borders. I do do this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
AceClown posted:Back in theros khans I had a RDW variant that could win on T4 but it was very christmas land and was the most glass canon deck I've played. Anyone remember the dies to doom blade meme? Anyone? Hello?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
Ulamog is balanced, dies to REDACTED
myDad fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
lol @ "You say aetherworks is just spinning a wheel but isn't drawing cards off the top of your deck also random???" 
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
myDad posted:Ulamog is balanced, dies to Doom Blade Isn't Ulamog indestructible?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:25
|
|
|
ThePeavstenator posted:lol @ "You say aetherworks is just spinning a wheel but isn't drawing cards off the top of your deck also random???" If you think about it drawing path is basically the same as t4 finisher in a format where they forgot to print doom blade
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
I remember in 2011 that Wizards had Mike Flores write an article that the prominence of CawBlade was overblown and that he argued there were just as many copies of Preordain in the top eight of some tournament as there were copies of Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I look forward to Aaron Forsythe writing some similar piece of bullshit about Aetherworks Marvel.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:29
|
|
|
TheCog posted:Isn't Ulamog indestructible? Lol right, I think I'm starting to see what people mean when they say, "WotC needs to print more answers"
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
ThePeavstenator posted:lol @ "You say aetherworks is just spinning a wheel but isn't drawing cards off the top of your deck also random???" Laughing at the unfortunate design decision to randomize resources for a resource-intensive game is always good imo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
Siivola posted:My gut feeling is that since actually drawing Ulamog is terrible, Marvel increases the variance of the deck. It's like trying to win by milling the opponent's combo cards away. It's just, the energy shell is solid enough to make the deck perform even if the rolls don't line up. Actually win, or just have game winning inevitability? Because Marvel never wins on actual turn 4, and neither do almost any aggro standard decks I can remember, although Boros Bushwacker might be the closest to a consistent win on that turn without disruption. Splinter Twin/Cat Combo are the only two I can remember that just win the game on turn 4, at least if we are talking the modern era of post Mirrodin bannings. It does feel like the design on marvel is pushed in a few too many directions, much like Smuggler's Copter. It being legendary is a bonus, comes into play untapped, things dying produce more energy and it is just a bit too cheap to activate. I forget all the details but it seems weird they missed how good it was, since the temur energy shell wasn't exactly a stretch to come up with, it doesn't even use any Aether Revolt cards. Regardless of the change in rotation it was always going to be legal with Emrakul and Ulamog.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:36
|
|
|
I've got some more harmonic behavior analysis here for you: it's your body, being violently shaken by me for saying something so profoundly dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:36
|
|
|
Were CoCo and Marvel too good for Standard? Were there too few answers printed for such powerful 4 mana spells? Curious what will happen when Hour of Devastation drops and there's a 4 mana wrath again
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
So the gp in omaha is even more marvel dominated? Look at that top 8...
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:43
|
|
|
Crackling Doom forever in Standard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
myDad posted:Were CoCo and Marvel too good for Standard? Were there too few answers printed for such powerful 4 mana spells? CoCo is powerful but theoretically fine in standard because it's only as good as the creatures it can get. It just got printed at a time where they started powering down answers and making tons of dumb, undercosted value bears and that made it especially unreasonable. CoCo also comes with the restriction of building your deck so that it can actually hit a majority of the time, which means you basically are just playing zoo with little to no removal. Marvel is awful because no matter what environment it would get printed in, it will always be used to turn out the biggest, baddest spells in the format for free. You also don't really need to worry about the card composition of a deck that plays it because finding any non-land spell in the top 8 of your deck means you hit something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
That sounds pretty damning for Marvel, can't see it getting any better with Hour's release
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
The funny part is that SaffronOlive clearly detests Marvel and constantly is antagonistic towards Forsythe about it. He's basically just outright accusing them of suppressing data at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:The funny part is that SaffronOlive clearly detests Marvel and constantly is antagonistic towards Forsythe about it. He's basically just outright accusing them of suppressing data at this point. I am not going to go full tinfoil here but it seems completely obvious they are at least spinning against the data we have available. Why do that at all unless they are in panic mode again. I have little doubt that if MTGO data would suddenly become available if it would help them at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:50
|
|
|
ThePeavstenator posted:You also don't really need to worry about the card composition of a deck that plays it because finding any non-land spell in the top 8 of your deck means you hit something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:50
|
|
|
Seth can't make a buck if nobody wants to buy the cards to his weekly jank brews. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Marketing New Brain posted:Actually win, or just have game winning inevitability? Because Marvel never wins on actual turn 4, and neither do almost any aggro standard decks I can remember, although Boros Bushwacker might be the closest to a consistent win on that turn without disruption. Splinter Twin/Cat Combo are the only two I can remember that just win the game on turn 4, at least if we are talking the modern era of post Mirrodin bannings. I might be remembering wrong but I feel like both sligh and the one goofy 4 color heroic list had dreamland t3s
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
myDad posted:Were CoCo and Marvel too good for Standard? Were there too few answers printed for such powerful 4 mana spells? It's the second one
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:53
|
|
|
Siivola posted:Seth can't make a buck if nobody wants to buy the cards to his weekly jank brews. I don't know why people think that's a conspiracy. He's in it for money, yes. It's not actually a problem that Seth profits off his own decks (which we don't even know that he does)
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:53
|
|
|
I think a not small part of why Marvel is annoying is that it says "cast" and I don't think it should
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:56
|
|
|
Tournament magic is the worst. Bring back stipulation tournaments.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
AceClown posted:I think a not small part of why Marvel is annoying is that it says "cast" and I don't think it should Well, without Eldrazi, "cast" is a downside.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 21:59
|
|
|
Eldrazi are such horrible design. BIG CREATURES, uncounterable cast triggers, colorless, and faceless / flavorless. How did they drag these through multiple sets is beyond me. If marvel was a one time use card I think it could be fine, but the fact that it spins and instantly hits something to spin again is just dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
Thanks for the replies y'all. AceClown posted:I think a not small part of why Marvel is annoying is that it says "cast" and I don't think it should
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:09
|
|
|
YggdrasilTM posted:Well, you need to include enough energy generating cards. That's like the lowest of low bars though. The deck wants time to cheat out big spells or at least spin its wheels while making value plays so it casts spells that gain you life, kills creatures, ensure consistent land drops, and even gets bodies to gum up the board, all of which also have energy generation stapled onto them. Even a land you play as a 4-of to make sure you get all your colors gives you energy. The cost of spinning marvel is also only 6 which you can easily generate in a turn once you're set up. YggdrasilTM posted:Well, without Eldrazi, "cast" is a downside. Not really, it lets you hit really expensive instants and sorceries as well, and ignoring that "cast" at least makes it so you can't miss.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
I like the cast triggers because ideally the creatures should be hard to cast and don't just die to doom blade as a reward, but instead they are easy to cast, don't die to doom blade, and also whens doom bladeSiivola posted:Thanks for the replies y'all. Sfm definitely just puts equipment into play
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
I'm loving bad at posting. I meant non-permanents.
Siivola fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jun 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
Remember when See the Unwritten was a deck in the FFL so they replaced ETB triggers with cast triggers on the big eldrazi so you couldn't just cast a 6 mana sorcery and cheat them out for full value? Remember when they then printed a 4 mana artifact that does the same thing but with ANY spell but it also casts the big eldrazi so you get the on cast triggers and oh yeah, it's also repeatable turn after turn?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:49 |
|
|
I can't honestly tell if you're really mad or just really gleeful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 22:25
|
|