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Dalris Othaine posted:it's definitely one of the top 50 schools I ever went to! I went to the second best comp eng school in the country ... of canada.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:45
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Elysiume posted:yeah, I did an interview where someone with 10+ years of developing experience was passingly familiar with hashmaps (didn't fully realize a python dictionary was a hashmap, even though it was his primary language) and thought that basically every operation on it was O(n), even in the best case as i mentioned earlier i rather think this is a fair enough kind of question, anyone who is either unable to, or not motivated enough to, figure out some basic complexity statements will tend to be a bad prospect for most programming jobs *however*, hashmaps is one where one needs to be permissive, since it not a simple worst case linear, it is a *degenerate* case linear, in that any given implementation will have some sequence of data (based on the hash function) which keeps every operation linear in every step
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Jun 3, 2017 17:46
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my flight was delayed, but fortunately my interview is tomorrow fly in the day before, even if it's not a long flight. And if they spring for you to fly out the day after the interview, even better
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Jun 4, 2017 19:45
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DuckConference posted:my flight was delayed, but fortunately my interview is tomorrow This is what I did. Only way to be well rested for it imo.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:30
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cis autodrag posted:so, in doing the math to phrase my counter, i came to the conclusion that i am hard lowballed. the number he gave me was a strict 6% increase over the base pay i gave him for here in madison. he claimed before there would be a col adjustment and then 6% on top of that to account for a long raise cycle in my first year. your prospective job title is software engineer yes? i thought i remembered you were looking at some hybrid/technical writer type position. if its not, that can unfortunately have a real effect on your total compensation. additionally, what level are you being brought in at? i dont know apple levels, but if you're being brought in at more or less entry level, realize that your pay will increase substantially with promotions and performance raises. regardless you should really absolutely be considering base pay + RSUs because all larges companies focus on your total compensation and then have some flexibility in how that is distributed among stock and salary. unless you think your company is going to tank in the next 4 years (and if you do why are you working there?) you are much better off with the stock even if you sell it immediately at vest.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:48
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FamDav posted:regardless you should really absolutely be considering base pay + RSUs because all larges companies focus on your total compensation and then have some flexibility in how that is distributed among stock and salary. unless you think your company is going to tank in the next 4 years (and if you do why are you working there?) you are much better off with the stock even if you sell it immediately at vest. Startup stock options, by contrast, are generally equivalent to "nothing but the opportunity to invest in the company the day they fire you" Big company raises are expected and typical every year, and the promotions are meaningful with attached comp increases. Startup raises are incredibly erratic. Also note that it's typical for big companies to give you a new stock grant every year, rather than once every four years. This means that even without raises or promotions you could expect your comp to go up dramatically every year until your fourth year, as each grant layers on top of one another.
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Jun 5, 2017 02:28
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FamDav posted:your prospective job title is software engineer yes? i thought i remembered you were looking at some hybrid/technical writer type position. if its not, that can unfortunately have a real effect on your total compensation. additionally, what level are you being brought in at? i dont know apple levels, but if you're being brought in at more or less entry level, realize that your pay will increase substantially with promotions and performance raises. its pure engineer and it is not an entry level title. the balls pretty much in the recruiters court though. he gets back to me with something i like or i keep looking because there's no reason to gently caress my financial situation just to spring at the first offer i get. rsus are cool or whatever but im not eating a monthly decrease in take home pay.
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Jun 5, 2017 04:06
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cis autodrag posted:pure engineer cool, what state is your PE licensure in?
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Jun 5, 2017 04:20
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mishaq posted:cool, what state is your PE licensure in? lol. i mean, im a dyke and i can talk in a real deep voice so i have all the qualifications for a pe teacher.
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Jun 5, 2017 04:24
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cis autodrag posted:do i chalk it up to an honest mistake, or a cynical move on his part? i guess we'll find out after i email him tomorrow. just for the record, it is never bad or wrong to question poo poo sometimes it can be dicey to email about it, because email is easy to misinterpret. but it is always ok to phone a recruiter or hr drone or hiring manager and be real fuckin clear about poo poo
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Jun 5, 2017 04:38
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:just for the record, it is never bad or wrong to question poo poo thanks. the more i thought about it the less nervous i felt. they've been attempting to hire me since december. theyre not just gonna stomp away because i was firm about my requirements.
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Jun 5, 2017 04:44
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recruiter emails back "it's going to be hard to add to this offer can I call you". apparently he thinks i will be easy to rip off.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:49
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cis autodrag posted:recruiter emails back "it's going to be hard to add to this offer can I call you". apparently he thinks i will be easy to rip off. it's cool I just had one of these: "i know you have 8 years of experience, but I think it's best if we level you at junior" "thanks for that; I won't stop tutoring one of your seniors because they're a good friend" "can you repeat that?"
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Jun 5, 2017 16:53
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leper khan posted:it's cool I just had one of these: So how did that end? Don't leave us hanging?
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Jun 5, 2017 18:12
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OWLS! posted:So how did that end? Don't leave us hanging? I repeated it and then cordially ended the call. They sent out a schedule request for a follow up then shortly thereafter another that they wanted to either 1: remind me to respond or 2: rescind interest. people should really use clear language.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:33
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he's calling me later today. actually emailed to confirm a time for once. i think im just gonna firmly read him the math i did, which demonstrates that on housing cost alone (no other col considerations in there) im taking a 20k pay cut if i accept what they offered. i have some compromises id be willing to make but im not volunteering that stuff without getting a straight answer about base pay first. p much if they made my bonus high enough to clear out my credit cards it would make the base pay more do-able but why tell him that without trying to get more base first?
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Jun 5, 2017 19:40
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have you tried talking with anyone else? having seen what "I'm flying to google on Monday " did to the recruiting process "I have a job offer from Apple" should move heaven and earth
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Jun 5, 2017 19:45
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yeah that all makes sense but don't be surprised if his response is "well how about an extra 40k in RSUs then" because that's what they usually like giving out, not more base. best of luck on increasing the figgies though
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Jun 5, 2017 19:45
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JewKiller 3000 posted:yeah that all makes sense but don't be surprised if his response is "well how about an extra 40k in RSUs then" because that's what they usually like giving out, not more base. best of luck on increasing the figgies though yeah, i'm kinda prepping myself for it to be a negotiation of starting bonus and rsus but i dont want to open from that position. im not a master of the art of the deal or anything but it seems silly to go in with a door closed already.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:48
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call had. as i figured he was pretty hesitant to bumping base but was open to bumping signing bonus to let me put some budgetary stuff in order. he's calling me back tomorrow with the number he was able to get. i am feeling optimistic.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:44
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i hope you already have a deecee base because otherwise lol at only getting a modest bump when moving from loving wisconsin to the bay area
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Jun 5, 2017 22:57
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so does apple pay a lot less than everyone else or what
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Jun 5, 2017 23:00
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FamDav posted:so does apple pay a lot less than everyone else or what
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Jun 5, 2017 23:03
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epic probably pays p deece and, while rsus are a huge chunk of the apple package, they are not being factored in heavily here due to extenuating personal circumstances, is my understanding
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Jun 5, 2017 23:06
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FamDav posted:so does apple pay a lot less than everyone else or what six figgies in Wisconsin is kinda like 6.5 in the Bay Area at least where housing is concerned
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Jun 5, 2017 23:10
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Bloody posted:epic probably pays p deece and, while rsus are a huge chunk of the apple package, they are not being factored in heavily here due to extenuating personal circumstances, is my understanding p much this. the base is objectively a real nice number, but it's still a net pay cut when you consider that my house costs 600 a month here and day-to-day expenses are cheaper. my napkin math has the COL difference between wisconsin and the bay at around 80%. pushing for the higher signing bonuses just lets me settle a couple outstanding debts that will make the base pay more livable. i've completely excepted that i'm just never going to have 1600 square feet in the bay until i have like 5 million dollars to sink into a house (and gently caress that, i'm going to retire back to milwaukee when i'm done working).
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Jun 5, 2017 23:33
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i still don't understand the pay cut thing, are you saying it's a pay cut because your take-home for the first year will be lower since your RSUs haven't vested yet? if so then yes that's the idea, they do it so you have to stay for a while to get your total comp. but once you have those RSUs then your pay like doubles. or are you saying that even in 4 years with everything fully vested you will be taking home less money than you are now at epic? because that'd be a really lovely lowball
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Jun 6, 2017 00:16
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um please don't torpedo a job at apple over some salary negotiation like wtf, most terrible programmers would suck off a dog
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Jun 6, 2017 01:30
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why don't you just post the offer
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Jun 6, 2017 01:32
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cis autodrag posted:i've completely accepted that i'm just never going to have 1600 square feet in the bay until i have like 5 million dollars to sink into a house (and gently caress that, i'm going to retire back to milwaukee when i'm done working). as a reference point we have about that much room in a single family home in the la honda area for under 600k. we both work as programmers and over the last two years or so weve already paid down the mortgage to an 80k balance, on top of both of us maxing out 401ks, going on a bunch of international trips, funding our own wedding out of pocket, etc. i'm just saying the figgies really do pile up, and if you're not insisting on living in ~the middle of everything~ (in our case we don't want to) then its not hard to keep expenses very reasonable. the bay area only really sucks if neither of you is a programmer and/or you've got a bunch of kids. ultimately what the bay area offers is lots of options wrt working as a programmer. the job market is so fluid that it's easiest to just model the whole region as a single large company. there is no single company or even sub-industry that has a significant foothold. google/apple/adobe/intel/pixar/... all tried for years to collude and break this ecosystem but still couldnt manage it
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Jun 6, 2017 02:03
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AWWNAW posted:um please don't torpedo a job at apple over some salary negotiation to be negotiating with them though is a drat good sign, like i genuinely believe i will never be good enough at what i do to work at a place like that. you've got something special, go get paid
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Jun 6, 2017 02:14
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Progressive JPEG posted:single family home in the la honda area for under 600k and how much is the earthquake insurance?
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Jun 6, 2017 02:19
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carry on then posted:to be negotiating with them though is a drat good sign, like i genuinely believe i will never be good enough at what i do to work at a place like that. you've got something special, go get paid without a doubt you are overestimating "a place like" that and underestimating how good you are i mean, unless you're troy from my first job out of college, gently caress that guy
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Jun 6, 2017 02:24
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JewKiller 3000 posted:and how much is the earthquake insurance? around 1200/yr iirc i remember quoting an identical theoretical house at various zipcodes and for the same options its pretty cheap here compared to the valley, gonna assume a combination of low liquefaction risk and distance from hayward fault
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Jun 6, 2017 02:28
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wow that's a lot less than i thought it would be for the area, nice
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Jun 6, 2017 02:29
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FYI all CA earthquake insurance is CEA that's just repackaged/resold by insurance companies. there's a premium calculator on the CEA site
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Jun 6, 2017 02:32
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Progressive JPEG posted:ultimately what the bay area offers is lots of options wrt working as a programmer. the job market is so fluid that it's easiest to just model the whole region as a single large company. there is no single company or even sub-industry that has a significant foothold. google/apple/adobe/intel/pixar/... all tried for years to collude and break this ecosystem but still couldnt manage it yeah it's hard to oversell the value of being in a strong job market. a ticket into one is worth a bit of salary imo (but obviously don't let yourself get hosed).
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Jun 6, 2017 02:37
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counterpoint: stay where you are. the valley is a shithole and it's just a job
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Jun 6, 2017 02:56
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JewKiller 3000 posted:i still don't understand the pay cut thing, are you saying it's a pay cut because your take-home for the first year will be lower since your RSUs haven't vested yet? if so then yes that's the idea, they do it so you have to stay for a while to get your total comp. but once you have those RSUs then your pay like doubles. or are you saying that even in 4 years with everything fully vested you will be taking home less money than you are now at epic? because that'd be a really lovely lowball legit even rsus accounted for its a mild loss ya. but there's value on epic not being the last job in my resume and I'm weighing that pretty heavily too. not to mention the work is good and the team seemed cool. im not trying to hard ball them or anything, just trying to make sure I get all i can.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:27
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are you really well paid now in which case how the gently caress do you have credit card debt as a computer toucher living in loving wisconsin or were you lowballed im so confused
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Jun 6, 2017 04:11
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