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Bring more artillery and make him realize that he brought rifles to a cannon fight.
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Jun 6, 2017 12:14
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Loopoo posted:My cavalry suffered the same fate, they were decimated. I tried flanking his Thunderers, but they turned with me and got off a volley and then I hit into one unit and could barely dent the fuckers. I've mained Dwarves before, so I know how tanky they are, but jesus christ. What my dad said, Dwarfs really hate being outrgunned and Empire is a faction with the tools for it, and having better artillery forces the opponent to come and meet you. Mortars and rockets are bad against them because of the armor, but cannons and the gatling gun do a serious number on the Dawi, and the Steam Tank is something they have few answers to. Cavalry (and Chariots, but the Empire lacks these) is excellent against them by taking advantage of their lack of mobility, specially to cause chaos in the backlines, and can punch through their line if they are spread out. If they have a dense formation they become very good targets for spells, particularly Pit of Shades (Lore of Shadows) and Flock of Doom (Lore of Beasts). You want to overwhelm Dwarf lines and disable their support fire, their infantry while resistant cannot really outfight yours cost for cost. Halberdiers are not a very efficient option against the Dawi, they provide relatively cheap armor piercing, but their role is primarily as anti-large units and the Dwarfs don't have any units like that. To take sustained fire and hold the line against Dwarfs you want Spearmen/Swordsmen with Shields and Flaggelants, with a second line (three or four units) of Greatswords behind them to bring the damage. Flying lords and heroes give you a huge mobility advantage against the Dwarfs and can be used to jump in and out of artillerly units and gunlines, just be careful that they don't take sustained fire without healing to back them up. A fun if dickish build against Dwarfs is one Steam Tank, one Lord of the Empire, two stripped down captains, a life Wizard with healing spells and a horse, three units of Flaggelants and the rest a napoleonic line. You use the tank, flagellants and characters to hold the line and then focus fire one unit at a time with your handgunners, with the Life Wizard keeping your tank and heroes alive. If the Dwarfs try to reach your gunline with their infantry you can quickly intercept them with the tank or heroes and lay fire on them. Given how much ranged firepower your friend brings you may want to add artillery to this build to force him to come to you, maybe trade the Steam tank for a pair of cannons and change. Also maybe just ask your friend to vary the factions every once in a while, it's no fun to be playing against nothing but variations of the same force.
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Jun 6, 2017 12:51
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Empire vs Dwarves is pretty much a shooting contest, whoever brings more guns and artillery tends to win, though Empire wants Cav as well and Dwarves want some Slayers and other units to hold back the Cav.
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Jun 6, 2017 12:53
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Loopoo posted:My cavalry suffered the same fate, they were decimated. I tried flanking his Thunderers, but they turned with me and got off a volley and then I hit into one unit and could barely dent the fuckers. I've mained Dwarves before, so I know how tanky they are, but jesus christ. Try a singleplayer custom battle where you use his army lineup and the AI uses yours. See if it does anything to surprise you. But yeah, dwarfs don't have cavalry, so don't bring spears.
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Jun 6, 2017 12:56
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Outgunning a Dwarf is a big grudging, so do that. You can also make a rule that you are both attacking. The streamer Ninjahund on Twitch have some tournaments he is running, with some sane and fair rules: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/KnightsofNinjahund/discussions/0/1290691937715338411/ Part I am thinking about : quote:Both players are attackers. This mean that if a player is constantly running around with his troops, without engaging the enemy (playing for a draw), the player gets a default loss of the match (not the full series). If your friend won't do it, he won't have anyone to play with, so it really is in his best interest to keep you engaged. Same goes for coop campaigns. You can dick over your coop partner, but then you won't have anyone to play coop with, so you don't.
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Jun 6, 2017 14:34
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Loopoo posted:My cavalry suffered the same fate, they were decimated. I tried flanking his Thunderers, but they turned with me and got off a volley and then I hit into one unit and could barely dent the fuckers. I've mained Dwarves before, so I know how tanky they are, but jesus christ. If he's bringing so many ranged units (and 6 is a poo poo-ton) then it really comes down to timing and focus. He can't reposition very quickly, and thunderers aren't terribly long ranged, so shift your attack until you get yourself into a position where only a few thunderers can fire effectively, and basically swamp him all at once. If you're just frontally marching in you'll get slaughtered.
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Jun 6, 2017 15:03
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Someone tell me about elves! Can't watch the stream in work.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:14
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Southpaugh posted:Someone tell me about elves! Can't watch the stream in work. Their heads are as pointy as their ears.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:21
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Panfilo posted:Their heads are as pointy as their ears. Brains too?
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Jun 6, 2017 16:22
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Southpaugh posted:Someone tell me about elves! Can't watch the stream in work. You need to set your gitfinda to panzee to find them.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:23
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All you need to know about the elfs: they are fancy. Too fancy.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:25
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So far: Teclis and Tyrion, no big surprises there other than Teclis getting a mount Lords: Prince and Princess. Prince is heavily armored and gets Steed->Eagle->Sun Dragon->Star Dragon Princess is lightly armored but gets a bow and Steed->Eagle->Moon Dragon->Star Dragon Heroes: Loremaster Noble with Halberd Mage Infantry: Spearmen<White Lions<Swordmasters<Phoenix Guard Swordmasters don't get their missile deflection. White Lions get bonuses in forest Martial Prowess is a bonus to combat stats while at >=50% health Missiles: Archers (longbows, optional armor) Sea Guard (short bows+spear, optional shield) Archers are super long range, Sea Guard get standard bow range, but also standard anti-large spear stats Melee Cavalry: Silver Helms (optional shield) Dragon Princes Reavers (Spears or bows)
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Jun 6, 2017 16:34
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High elf lore: They are pricks. Thaaaat about covers it. In fairness the current Phoenix King is slightly less of a prick, in that his reaction after "my god, they've gone from a couple of poo poo-stinking mud huts to numberless, even-more-poo poo-stinking stone and wood huts" was "hey you people might be useful as meat shields against chaos, let's do this thing."
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Jun 6, 2017 16:34
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Ze Pollack posted:High elf lore: It's a bit more that they are pricks. They try to be nice and do the right thing but almost always end up going about it in absolutely the most prickish ways they possibly could.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:38
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I really liked the Pheonixes and the Dragons. Pheonix (i assume both variants) work better the more winds of magic you have and theres a DPS(Fire)/Tank(Ice) choice to be had there. Dragons come in 3 types, Star>Moon>Sun. Sun is the smallest dragons, better aoe breath attacks Moon is middle ground, breaths are a bit more focused Star is the oldest and best dragon, their breaths are basically "death star beams"
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Jun 6, 2017 16:51
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Artillery: Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - two fire modes, either one big pack of connected arrows good vs single large target or 13 individual weaker scattershots good vs hordes Chariots: Tiranoc Chariot - missile chariot, fires magic tripleshots Ithilmar Chariot - Armored melee chariot Monsters: Flamespire Phoenix - Gets stronger while your winds of magic are high. Good to use with no mage. Bomb-style fire wave, can rapid fire it. 50/50 chance to come back to life if it's about to die Frostheart Phoenix - Cold aura, tankier phoenix Great Eagle - Pretty much the wood elf one Sun Dragon - Smallest dragon, fire breath. Big aoe less damage Moon Dragon - Middle dragon. More focused fire breath. Star Dragon - Best dragon in the game. Super strong fire breath, very focused. Missing Units: Shadow Warriors - Skirmishing archers with good melee Sisters of Avelorn - Anti-evil magic archers Lion Chariot - Heavy chariot pulled by loving lions Lothern Skycutter - Flying chariot, can take a mini bolt thrower Missing Lord/Heroes: Archmage - Lord level caster Anointed of Asuryan - Lord/hero level phoenix guard, can ride a phoenix Haindmaiden of the Everqueen - Hero level magic archer Sea Helm - Hero Level archer/fighter Dragon Mage - Focused fire wizard on a dragon Missing Characters: Alarielle - Super life wizard Alith Anar - Leader of shadow warriors Eltharion the Grim - Caster/Fighter on a griffon Caradryan - Leader of the phoenix guard Korhil - Leader of the white lions I can see an obvious character expansion focused on Alith Anar as a high elf vs dark elf pack, since Shadow Warriors and Alith Anar are suuuuper angry at the dark elves
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Jun 6, 2017 16:52
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Dead elves are the best elves.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:55
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Cool, not too much missing from the roster, and I'm surprised both phoenixes made it in. Guessing they're just talking about it again, no gameplay right? Probably a video on Friday. I wonder if they'll reveal the Skaven at E3...
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Jun 6, 2017 16:55
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A flying chariot Exploding through clouds of bats/harpies/etc in midair sounds rad as gently caress.
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Jun 6, 2017 16:56
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what 'Missing characters' are there among the factions? for the record.
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Jun 6, 2017 17:20
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That's a shitload of dragons and phoenixes. Empire and greenskins and dwarfs (kinda) are terrible at dealing with flyers, so here's hoping we get some love for the old world. e: Empire doesn't get any flyers really-- should we just keep on pretending handgunners and crossbows are good at killing flyers?
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Jun 6, 2017 17:40
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Handgunners and Thunderers are excellent at killing flyers. Proper roster's been done posted.
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Jun 6, 2017 17:43
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Kaza42 posted:Artillery: That's an interesting take on the Bolt Thrower. Makes me wonder whether Dark Elves will get the same thing or another interpretation that would set them apart a little more (here's hoping for a rapid fire variant  ).
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Jun 6, 2017 17:44
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Thank god I stopped playing Warhammer at 8th edition, all the monsters and chariot variants sounds terrible and lame.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:03
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I hope the TW-II Radious mod gives all Elven chariots access to all magic in the game. Better just make every Chariot Teclis and Tyrion duos.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:13
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Of loving course the woman lord is a lightly armored archer only.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:15
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Cythereal posted:Of loving course the woman lord is a lightly armored archer only. SIDE SADDLE! SIDE SADDLE!
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Jun 6, 2017 18:15
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There is Elharion for the High Elves.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:17
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Cythereal posted:Of loving course the woman lord is a lightly armored archer only. I don't understand what the problem is???
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Jun 6, 2017 18:24
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Cythereal posted:Of loving course the woman lord is a lightly armored archer only. That's a shame considering the male and female Wood Elf glade lords are identical in capability afaik.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:24
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John Charity Spring posted:That's a shame considering the male and female Wood Elf glade lords are identical in capability afaik. No, it's the same thing with the Glady being hybrid/ranged. I mean, she'll still get a dragon so you're gonna want to charge in anyway. 
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Jun 6, 2017 18:26
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Cythereal posted:Of loving course the woman lord is a lightly armored archer only. Eh, they wanted differentiation I guess? I suppose differentiating based on gender seemed like the simple thing to do (don't know if there's a lore/tabletop reason for it). I mean, there are worse things, just look at all the people at TWC who complain about the existence of female units in any total war game, such as the Onna Bushi in shogun, who end up modding the women out. Deciding to make the women do a different combat role is at least better than making them unable to fight at all (and probably serves as an easy way to differentiate how that type of lord fights), even if there are assholes who insist on the latter. At least there's always the wood elves for mechanically identical male and female lords. Deakul posted:I don't understand what the problem is??? At a guess, something like the fact the women wear lighter armour and fight from more of a distance implies they are weaker than the men? Something along those lines? That's just what I would guess Cythereal thinks, you'd want a response from them to know for sure. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude. Stephen9001 fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 18:30
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Stephen9001 posted:I mean, there are worse things, just look at all the people at TWC who complain about the existence of females Yes, TWC is a terrible place.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:35
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Stephen9001 posted:At a guess, something like the fact the women wear lighter armour and fight from more of a distance implies they are weaker than the men? Something along those lines? That's just what I would guess Cythereal thinks, you'd want a response from them to know for sure. And pretty much every time a fantasy game deigns to have women at all, they're almost always slotted into frail archer or frail spellcaster. Differentiating the genders in the helves' lords just to make the woman yet another fragile archer strikes me as... unfortunate. Would it really be so hard to just make male and female models for most lords and heroes and troops and have them be completely identical?
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Jun 6, 2017 18:39
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They would need to redo the animations for both models. Yeah I share the eyeroll here over the tropeyness, but I can see the technical issue. (They should have just swapped over the genders :P)
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Jun 6, 2017 18:42
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On top of it all, no one ever seems to acknowledge just how drat strong you need to be to draw a longbow. Lady archers should be just as buff as swordswomen. 
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Jun 6, 2017 18:47
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I mean, to be fair, they are literally being called Princesses.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:48
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Onmi posted:what 'Missing characters' are there among the factions? for the record. A frankly ludicrous number, but the vast majority are really uninspiring? Like, the only one who would be worth seeing I can think of is Grom the Paunch, Goblin Warboss, who historically led an invasion of Ulthuan. Slapping him on Ulthuan gives something for elves to do earlygame, and also would get you a greenskin start away from the goddamned Badlands.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:51
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Just wait until its balanced so that everyone is complaining about getting sniped to death by flying dragon princesses, and no one builds the m(a)lee version.
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Jun 6, 2017 18:52
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jokes posted:I mean, to be fair, they are literally being called Princesses. Proper elf character design should make it so that it is impossible to distinguish the two unless you are staring directly at their face model, and even then make frequent mistakes
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Jun 6, 2017 18:53
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