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oliwan, what are some of your other favourite TV shows? (I know I shouldn't be encouraging him but it's better than hearing you all argue why something obviously deliberately ambiguous actually isn't because insert pedantic reason here)
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Jun 6, 2017 23:33
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Nothus Infelix posted:In another universe, 98% of goons hated this show and did nothing but complain about the ambiguity-for-ambiguity's sake, the repetitious music, the dropped plot lines and characters, the obvious themes, the symbolism that smacked you in the face, and the show's incessant plea to "let the mystery be" because the writers couldn't figure out the mystery themselves. The thread became legendary, surpassing even Sons of Anarchy for the scope and virulence of the hatewatching. But 2% of goons really liked it, and they were able to move on from the detractors and live happily without worrying about the other 98%.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:36
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Escobarbarian posted:oliwan, what are some of your other favourite TV shows? Some from the top of my head: The Wire, Fargo (Season 2), Mad Men, Better Call Saul
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Jun 6, 2017 23:37
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oliwan posted:Some from the top of my head: The Wire, Fargo (Season 2), Mad Men, Better Call Saul Well I can certainly get behind this. 
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Jun 6, 2017 23:41
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oliwan posted:Some from the top of my head: The Wire, Fargo (Season 2), Mad Men, Better Call Saul Some bold picks here
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Jun 7, 2017 00:01
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They're all awesome shows but honestly I prefer Leftovers to all but MM.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:04
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I finally found something about The Leftovers I don't like. For a show where animals are so important, it fails to credit its animal actors. For instance, in the finale the credits don't tell you that the goat's real-life name is Rupert.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:45
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Onomarchus posted:I finally found something about The Leftovers I don't like. For a show where animals are so important, it fails to credit its animal actors. For instance, in the finale the credits don't tell you that the goat's real-life name is Rupert.
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Jun 7, 2017 00:57
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Rupert deserves a cushy retirement imo
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Jun 7, 2017 01:11
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I knew I liked that goat 
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Jun 7, 2017 01:14
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This show ties in with Prometheus. "It's what I choose to believe"
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Jun 7, 2017 01:17
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bagrada posted:Final comment is they say "...What?" way too much. In response to questions they weren't expecting, in response to questions they didn't hear, in response to completely hosed up things happening. It should be a drinking game to take a shot every time someone replies with that. If I was smarter I'd try to figure out if that was one of the themes and if it meant something. I assume it's not bad writing. But its one of those things that happens a lot in real life and almost never in scripted fiction, so it feels uncanny valley or something. I dunno. That's exactly why; because it happens a lot in real life. Because the show sometimes went so far into the surreal, absurd, and meta they needed to balance those parts with other moments of extreme realism and mundanity. UmOk posted:This show ties in with Prometheus. In more ways than one. I know other writers and key creative talents were involved, but it feels like this is what Lindelof was working towards with his whole career so far. The best possible expression of his pet themes. I wonder what he could possibly do next. Canadian Surf Club posted:I am mulling on how the show capped Nora's personal struggle though. By the end, has she moved past the need to feel like a victim? Did the "machine" resolve this for her? Or is her isolation another form of being separate or distinct and drawing the pity of nuns or what have you. Maybe I missed a resolving note on this. Even though I don't think she really went through the machine into another world, I think she honestly believed that her story was the best possible scenario: Her kids were alive and safe, but they had moved on. So she could move on too. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 02:00
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Yeah I don't know, I think the first season was alright and the second season I guess better. But I completely checked out once more supernatural stuff started to happen and it was just kinda feeling very tryhard. Sometimes it was hilarious to me though, like whenever a Metallica song shows up or where is my mind plays (I couldn't stop laughing at this). Season 3 felt completely all over the place but still peak lindelof. I don't think the ending was all that good and I think I started to dislike these characters by the time we get here. I like the ideas this show presents though like how these people struggle coping with their grief, but there's always something I just don't like at all (Liv Tyler's performance throughout the whole thing was just bad imo). Glad it was short, but I think I'm not gonna watch another lindelof show or movie again though.
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Jun 7, 2017 04:51
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To be fair I don't think these characters were ever meant to be especially likable. Like it kind of comes with the premise of these people being horribly broken ever since the Departure happened.
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Jun 7, 2017 04:57
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Gonna miss this show.
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Jun 7, 2017 05:17
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Raxivace posted:To be fair I don't think these characters were ever meant to be especially likable. Like it kind of comes with the premise of these people being horribly broken ever since the Departure happened. if you or don't like Kevin & Nora then idk what's up with you
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Jun 7, 2017 05:20
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oliwan posted:A good post. Yeah it was, and I liked the first two seasons, and didn't start hating the third til the second half of the season. SLOSifl posted:This mirrors Kevin's journey perfectly. Her answer was Kevin, and his answer was Nora. Her actions contradict this though, they even contradict the idea that she had completed her journey moving beyond her grief and guilt, and found any type of inner peace.
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Jun 7, 2017 06:18
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savinhill posted:Her actions contradict this though, they even contradict the idea that she had completed her journey moving beyond her grief and guilt, and found any type of inner peace. She didn't find any of that until the very last scene. Her pigeons returning late, right at that moment, were symbolic for her journey taking longer than Kevin's. But they both arrived in the same place in the end. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 06:33
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Also, they returned with a love message.
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Jun 7, 2017 06:47
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If Nora doesn't melt your heart when she has a smile of genuine happiness then you are a loving monster
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Jun 7, 2017 07:42
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Rad Lieutenant posted:if you or don't like Kevin & Nora then idk what's up with you
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Jun 7, 2017 09:14
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So unless I missed something during the episode that made my following conjecture obvious and moot, Laurie had to have told Kevin at some point that Nora was alive and where she was. Admittedly I was frustrated with the episode, so could have missed this originally. I do remember thinking "what kind of rear end in a top hat would let someone they care about go on wondering about the fate of one of the person they love" but in retrospect I could see Laurie not telling him for awhile just cuz of thinking Nora may cause him to go back to acting crazy again, but finally realizing that letting him know would be best for both of them, and even maybe coaching him in the whole way he approached her.
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Jun 7, 2017 15:56
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savinhill posted:So unless I missed something during the episode that made my following conjecture obvious and moot, Laurie had to have told Kevin at some point that Nora was alive and where she was. Admittedly I was frustrated with the episode, so could have missed this originally. I do remember thinking "what kind of rear end in a top hat would let someone they care about go on wondering about the fate of one of the person they love" but in retrospect I could see Laurie not telling him for awhile just cuz of thinking Nora may cause him to go back to acting crazy again, but finally realizing that letting him know would be best for both of them, and even maybe coaching him in the whole way he approached her. Laurie didn't tell Kevin anything. He's spent the past however many years going around the Australian countryside showing people Nora's photo and asking if they recognize her. He only found her because he happened to talk to the nun.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:00
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Kevin might've told everyone in his life that he was just visiting his dad in Australia. Laurie had no idea he was still searching.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:00
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savinhill posted:So unless I missed something during the episode that made my following conjecture obvious and moot, Laurie had to have told Kevin at some point that Nora was alive and where she was. Laurie told Nora during their phone call that she absolutely had not told Kevin, because that would have broken doctor-patient confidentiality. Remember, Laurie had Nora "pay" her with a pack of cigarettes two episodes prior to establish that relationship. At the time it was so she would have a legitimate reason not to tell Kevin where Nora was or that she was planning to go through the machine, and she upheld that in the decade-plus afterward.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:37
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On that note, it's quite possible that Nora's story about the other side was just an allegory of her therapy sessions with Laurie over the years. Remember that Laurie continuously pointed out, verbally and through her actions, that she believes in indulging the delusions of her patients to allow them to work through their problems internally. edit: Nora's delusion was that she needed to be with her kids, rather than accept they were gone. Or in terms of her story, that finding her kids was the goal, when it actually was to find peace specifically so she could go back. Kevin's story was the same - going to the other side wasn't the point, it was dealing with internal conflicts and getting back home. He was pulled out one time, but every other time he woke up when he completed his goal (and in one case, that goal was literally to realize how much he wanted to go home...and in another to figure out why). SLOSifl fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 16:53
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I'm just going to say it. Nora's messenger pigeon hive operation reminds me of Mike Tyson Mysteries.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:56
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Onomarchus posted:I'm just going to say it. Nora's messenger pigeon hive operation reminds me of Mike Tyson Mysteries. "Tho, I athked the doctuh to thend be beyack. Tho he did, and now Ahm heah with you, Kevin!"
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Jun 7, 2017 17:25
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Nothus Infelix posted:the show's incessant plea to "let the mystery be" because the writers couldn't figure out the mystery themselves. What does this dumb poo poo even mean.
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Jun 7, 2017 20:58
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*Hears some lyrics from the theme song* God dammit, are the writers going to put this in EVERY episode?
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Jun 7, 2017 21:01
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I mean, the themes of that song do strongly resonate with the themes of the show, that's why it was picked. The show's about faith, about never knowing the true answers to life's questions, and realizing that is just loving life, and you have to live anyways. If it wasn't successful for you, I'm sorry. This is one of the reasons I really can't buy a "she really went ending," the show constantly tells us that there are no answers, that kind of u-turn would be antithetical to the show. Slowpoke Rodriguez fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 21:33
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Watched the finale again and it feels better to me the second time around.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:36
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"They couldn't figure out the mystery themselves" is the dumbest poo poo I've ever read. It's like watching The Sopranos and thinking Tony doesn't change because the writers couldn't figure out how to do it.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:48
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"Ugh, WHY didn't Walt just work with Gretchen and Elliot again? This is so STUPID!". Because that guy wouldn't get a show.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:51
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There is a difference between a mystery that has the entirety of the plot resting on it, like Lost or BSG, and one where the mystery is just a Maltese Dragon to serve as a starting point for characterization, aka this show. The only real mystery here has always been the set of contradictions found in people, and whether the characters would be able to traverse it enough to connect with each other. That mystery was solved pretty well. They managed to do it.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:07
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If Nora's story is true, one little detail stood out to me: The parking lot she woke up in was empty, and she doesn't mention vehicles in her story. It brings up a concept of doubled matter: We know houses were all there, but were cars? Obviously, like she said, the trucks with the machine weren't there because they'd arrived long after the departure. But if 7 years ago 98% of everyone disappeared, the place would still be an automobile graveyard because there just wouldn't be enough people to clear it out or put them all somewhere. Or, moving objects/machines vanished and baby Sam from the pilot fell 3 feet to the pavement. 
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Jun 7, 2017 23:41
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sticklefifer posted:If Nora's story is true, one little detail stood out to me: The parking lot she woke up in was empty, and she doesn't mention vehicles in her story. It brings up a concept of doubled matter: We know houses were all there, but were cars? Obviously, like she said, the trucks with the machine weren't there because they'd arrived long after the departure. But if 7 years ago 98% of everyone disappeared, the place would still be an automobile graveyard because there just wouldn't be enough people to clear it out or put them all somewhere. Or, moving objects/machines vanished and baby Sam from the pilot fell 3 feet to the pavement. She took a boat to America. Check mate, atheist.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:51
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sticklefifer posted:But if 7 years ago 98% of everyone disappeared, the place would still be an automobile graveyard because there just wouldn't be enough people to clear it out or put them all somewhere. Or, moving objects/machines vanished and baby Sam from the pilot fell 3 feet to the pavement. One would assume (hope) that the LADR scientists intentionally moved the device to use only in locations that they knew would be free of obstructions. I got the sense that nothing else changed about the world for the 2% when the 98% vanished, since we only heard one or two instances of objects vanishing with the Departed. Sam would have been fine, securely fastened in his car seat (And luckily that other kid's dad would be nearby, so he would've been found very quickly.) Less lucky: The guy driving the car that collided with Matt and Mary. He would've been the only guy on the road when every other car on Main Street in Mapleton suddenly went driverless. Least lucky: The fetus inside Laurie 
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Jun 7, 2017 23:56
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JethroMcB posted:Least lucky: The fetus inside Laurie Hahahahahaha. Good catch
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Jun 8, 2017 00:53
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JethroMcB posted:One would assume (hope) that the LADR scientists intentionally moved the device to use only in locations that they knew would be free of obstructions. UmOk posted:Hahahahahaha. Good catch Yeah, drat lol..
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Jun 8, 2017 01:00
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