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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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Does anyone in this thread still actually care about independence or is flaps just pissing into the abyss again
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Jun 7, 2017 05:29
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Oh undoubtedly, but we've got more pressing issues this week!
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Jun 7, 2017 07:30
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Angepain posted:this would be a much more meaningful statement coming from you if you hadn't been saying it on a regular basis for the past three or four years Pissflaps and Sturgeon have at least one thing in common, then: they both love flogging dead horses. (And the UK having a Tory government while professing to support another party and be left wing.)
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Jun 7, 2017 08:20
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Lady Galaga posted:Does anyone in this thread still actually care about independence or is flaps just pissing into the abyss again I might actually vote Labour. Still undecided. Wish the Scottish branch weren't so poo poo. They are probably going to double down on the British nationalism today in response to this. Hopefully Kez and the gang will eventually be sidelined by the left.
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Jun 7, 2017 08:40
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The way I see it, both the SNP and ScotLab have made mistakes campaigning. The SNP could have distanced themselves from calls for indyref2, which they clearly want to do at the moment, but letting Angus Robertson do all debates except last nights Scottish leaders one, and let him lead all campaigning. He's the Westminster leader of the SNP, and he doesn't have the same public perception of constantly talking about indyref, though of course being in the SN{ means he'd be accused of it nonetheless. For ScotLab, is goes back much further, and they won't change tack now until Dugdale goes. Their best play would be to avoid talking about indyrefs in any way. if asked, give a noncommittal "I personally don't support independence, but we're not currently having a referendum" line and stick to policy. If they really feel strongly about it, they can campaign for No in an indyref2, though I'd suggest separate from the Tories.
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Jun 7, 2017 09:47
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I feel like SLab would be doing much better up here if they'd just stayed in line with the rest of UK Labour but I guess it was kinda hard to predict this Corbyn surge happening and they needed alternate tactics I'm in Glasgow North and still kinda conflicted about who to go for tomorrow, YouGov has swithered between the seat being Lean/Likely SNP vs. Labour for a few days now but I'm also kinda tempted to give Patrick Harvie some support
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Jun 7, 2017 09:53
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Lady Galaga posted:Does anyone in this thread still actually care about independence or is flaps just pissing into the abyss again I'd rather not rush into a second referendum which we'll lose again, but considering all the civil liberty crushing May is talking about doing? Yeah, I still think leaving the UK is a good idea.
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Jun 7, 2017 10:22
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Would independence supporters here still vote yes if it was a referendum granted by Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn?
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Jun 7, 2017 11:25
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My mum definitely would. I'm not so sure because a Jeremy Corbyn premiership is going to be more radical than anything we'd do as an independent nation.
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Jun 7, 2017 11:47
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forkboy84 posted:My mum definitely would. I'm not so sure because a Jeremy Corbyn premiership is going to be more radical than anything we'd do as an independent nation. Pfff, what a lack of ambition. Corbyn is a normal European social democrat, we could go a lot further. I'm definitely still in for independence.
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Jun 7, 2017 12:24
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Coohoolin posted:Pfff, what a lack of ambition. Corbyn is a normal European social democrat, we could go a lot further. Really? Based on what? Certainly not the SNP's time as the Scottish government. Wake me up when cutting Corporation Tax stops being one of their headline policies.
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Jun 7, 2017 12:26
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forkboy84 posted:Really? Based on what? Certainly not the SNP's time as the Scottish government. You realise the main thing keeping the SNP in power is Scotland's membership of the UK, yeah?
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Jun 7, 2017 12:27
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Also they dropped the "key plank" corporation tax cut thing back in 2015, and the only appearance it makes in the 2017 manifesto is alongside a £120bn stimulus package proposal.
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Jun 7, 2017 12:36
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Coohoolin posted:You realise the main thing keeping the SNP in power is Scotland's membership of the UK, yeah? Right, but where is this evidence of Scotland having any interest of electing a government to the left of Jeremy Corbyn (you also seem to understate how left wing Corbyn is too but I suppose you'd have to to continue justifying your SNP support while being a socialist)? There are left wing pro-indy parties. They return 0 MPs & 6 MSPs. So pray tell where this "left of Corbyn" vein is hiding? I was all for independence when the most left-wing government at Westminster looked like being Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband but that's just not the case now. A Corbyn government, significantly to the left of the Scottish government, greatly reduces the reasons for independence.
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Jun 7, 2017 12:39
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forkboy84 posted:Right, but where is this evidence of Scotland having any interest of electing a government to the left of Jeremy Corbyn (you also seem to understate how left wing Corbyn is too but I suppose you'd have to to continue justifying your SNP support while being a socialist)? There are left wing pro-indy parties. They return 0 MPs & 6 MSPs. So pray tell where this "left of Corbyn" vein is hiding? You're asking why Scottish leftism isn't voting the way it would in independence while we're not independent? I'm in the goddamm SSP and I'd encourage voting SNP in Westminster because 1) FPTP is poo poo and 2) independence is a prerequisite for actual socialism.
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Jun 7, 2017 12:42
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Coohoolin posted:You're asking why Scottish leftism isn't voting the way it would in independence while we're not independent? Right, but there's no evidence for this. It's just blind hope. Meanwhile, an actual socialist has a chance of implementing a social democratic manifesto starting on Friday. It's mild, but is a good first step and certainly more likely than a People's Republic of Alba. marktheando posted:I don't have any illusions about independent Scotland being a socialist paradise, it's just politics in England are so hosed and awful. Even Jeremy Corbyn treats immigration like a dirty word. This isn't true. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 13:13
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I don't have any illusions about independent Scotland being a socialist paradise, it's just politics in England are so hosed and awful. Even Jeremy Corbyn treats immigration like a dirty word.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:13
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Yeah he does, he did during the debate, and I've not forgotten the Brexit whip. As an immigrant, it makes me deeply suspicious and I don't think he'd have any problem throwing people like me under the bus if it came to that.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:16
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forkboy84 posted:This isn't true. In the debate he was promising free movement will end, while Angus Robertson was actually making a positive argument for more immigration. His Brexit policy is almost as deluded as May's- saying we can lose free movement and still negotiate for tariff free access to the common market. It's a fantasy.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:25
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ANY British politician that gets anywhere near electability is going to have to cater to the legions of racist red faced thumb people fuelled by tabloid hate.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:27
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forkboy84 posted:Right, but where is this evidence of Scotland having any interest of electing a government to the left of Jeremy Corbyn (you also seem to understate how left wing Corbyn is too but I suppose you'd have to to continue justifying your SNP support while being a socialist)? There are left wing pro-indy parties. They return 0 MPs & 6 MSPs. So pray tell where this "left of Corbyn" vein is hiding? They got convinced that the SNP are left wing. Coohoolin, you keep banging on about how the SNP will split right after independence. Where is your evidence for this? The more likely scenario based on history is that they will hang around because "we cannot abandon this new nation as it takes its first steps" or words to that effect, then once that wears thin say "the Scottish people voted for us last time, we must be what they want so why break the party?"
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Jun 7, 2017 13:34
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Jedit posted:They got convinced that the SNP are left wing. I said staying in the Union guarantees the SNP's presence as a political force. That's not the same as saying leaving it guarantees an immediate split, but it does mean it's pretty much the only way of having an alternative political option. Also the SNP conference routinely passes really left wing motions, the biggest problem was Tommy Shepherd getting passed up for the deputy-ship which restricts membership involvement, but that can change easily with a party reformat.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:37
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ah, I'd forgotten about the magic spell cast that causes everyone born to the south of an imaginary line to be racist thumb people and everyone to the north to be able to refer to a nation of people "thumb people" in a way that's Well Actually civic nationalism
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Jun 7, 2017 13:38
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CoolCab posted:ah, I'd forgotten about the magic spell cast that causes everyone born to the south of an imaginary line to be racist thumb people and everyone to the north to be able to refer to a nation of people "thumb people" in a way that's Well Actually civic nationalism Mate have you seen the state of the country lately?  oh no the nasty racist Scots are getting mad at the country that keeps voting Tory abloobloo
Coohoolin fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 13:38
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Coohoolin posted:You're asking why Scottish leftism isn't voting the way it would in independence while we're not independent? You're hammering this point yet again and you're still wrong. There is no appetite for a left wing government in Scotland, pre or post independence. The dream of a socialist Scotland is just that, a dream, and not one founded in any kind of political or social reality. You claim the thing keeping the SNP in power is the lack of independence, again there's zero evidence that the SNP would fracture or support would melt away and not just become another ANC.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:40
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marktheando posted:I don't have any illusions about independent Scotland being a socialist paradise, it's just politics in England are so hosed and awful. Even Jeremy Corbyn treats immigration like a dirty word. tomorrow, a far higher percentage of English people will vote for socialism than Scottish people.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:42
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Coohoolin posted:I said staying in the Union guarantees the SNP's presence as a political force. That's not the same as saying leaving it guarantees an immediate split, but it does mean it's pretty much the only way of having an alternative political option. No, you have repeatedly said that the SNP will split after independence. I'm at work so not at liberty to search your post history, but you have said it.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:42
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Baron Corbyn posted:tomorrow, a far higher percentage of English people will vote for socialism than Scottish people. Sad but true.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:42
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Jedit posted:No, you have repeatedly said that the SNP will split after independence. I'm at work so not at liberty to search your post history, but you have said it. I believe that to be a likelihood, but the post you referred to right now didn't say that. There's a difference between my personal opinions and facts like "being in the Union gives the SNP political strength". Baron Corbyn posted:tomorrow, a far higher percentage of English people will vote for socialism than Scottish people. You can leave the patronising bullshit out of it. Pretending the Scottish situation isn't remarkably different is disingenuous as gently caress. And don't you dare lecture us on socialism when the Scottish political narrative has been anti-austerity and pro-immigration for much, much, longer than anything in England. I like Corbyn, I really do, and I really really hope he becomes PM. That doesn't mean I can ignore the way Scotland functions politically and what the issues at stake are here.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:45
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Coohoolin posted:Mate have you seen the state of the country lately? you've always been a caricature of a person but this is bordering on political cartoon.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:47
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Coohoolin posted:You can leave the patronising bullshit out of it. Why should he when you're patronisingly dismissing England as racist thumb people? Also, blaming an entire country for the actions of the Tories when considerably less than 50% of the population in England voted for them is loving stupid. You should probably be made to live in England for a few years so you can wrap your head around the fact that actually the English are not bad. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 13:50
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Coohoolin posted:You can leave the patronising bullshit out of it. Pretending the Scottish situation isn't remarkably different is disingenuous as gently caress. And don't you dare lecture us on socialism when the Scottish political narrative has been anti-austerity and pro-immigration for much, much, longer than anything in England. the SNP are not anti-austerity lmao. And I'm not English, the two biggest parties here in Wales would love the tax raising powers the SNP refuse to use
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Jun 7, 2017 13:50
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forkboy84 posted:Why should he when you're patronisingly dismissing England as racist thumb people? Oh I'm sorry how dare I be angry at the millions and millions of people who hate foreigners so much they're going to vote back into power the woman who illegally deported 50'000 students. Baron Corbyn posted:the SNP are not anti-austerity lmao. Holyrood tax raising powers aren't actually all that effective. It's a nice talking point but it's more of a "enough rope to hang themselves" thing. I had a good writeup of it somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:54
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With or without independence, socialism isn't happening anyway. That's just a FYI thing, don't let me deter you from voting yes.
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Jun 7, 2017 14:00
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Cat Mattress posted:With or without independence, socialism isn't happening anyway. That's just a FYI thing, don't let me deter you from voting yes. My John MacLean t-shirt and Dick Gaughan record collection beg to loving differ.
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Jun 7, 2017 14:02
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Coohoolin posted:My John MacLean t-shirt and Dick Gaughan record collection beg to loving differ. CoolCab posted:you've always been a caricature of a person but this is bordering on political cartoon.
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Jun 7, 2017 14:05
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Coohoolin posted:2) independence is a prerequisite for actual socialism.
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Jun 7, 2017 14:26
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Cerv posted:could you expound upon your theory of Socialism in One small Country please? cos I don't think it's self evidentially true that Socialism needs decentralisation, atomising down imperial legacies like the loving UK seems an obvious prerequisite.
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Jun 7, 2017 14:33
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Britain Elects's NowCast now has East Renfrewshire and Edinburgh North and Leith as likely to go to Labour. Good eggs or bad eggs running in those seats?
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Jun 7, 2017 14:40
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| # ? May 11, 2024 14:17 |
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Baron Corbyn posted:Britain Elects's NowCast now has East Renfrewshire and Edinburgh North and Leith as likely to go to Labour. Good eggs or bad eggs running in those seats? Edinburgh North & Leith, Gordon Munro, Campaign for Socialism, good egg East Renfrewshire, Blair McDougall, former head of Better Together, bad egg
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Jun 7, 2017 14:54
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