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 October 5th, 1985, 12:12 AM  It seemed that the relatives all wanted to be alone now that they had dispersed for a short break. Since everyone avoided the parlor, the one place where people would normally gather, Rosa was able to have this relaxing and comforting room all to herself... That didn't mean she looked relaxed. Her expression was heavy with gloom and weariness. The cup of red tea that she had brought from the dining hall had gone cold...  "..."...A pleasant silence. Now that no one was in sight, Rosa's heart finally awoke. She was always treated like a kid in the conferences with her three siblings. She had no influence at all. But, possibly because of that, she was apparently considered to be a neutral party. The siblings would often ask for her agreement, sometimes even treating her like a referee or a judge.  "...I have to make use of that, and turn the discussion in the direction I want."I have to find almost a hundred million yen by March. That was supposed to be my great commitment, a burden I bore to help support 'that man's' business. Now, I'm not sure anymore. If I can pay off my debt, will he call me again?  BGM: Worldend (solo) ...But still, you are Maria's father, aren't you...? Please come and see her, if only just once...  BGM: None  "Huh?! Wh, who...?"Though no one should have been in the parlor, someone suddenly spoke to Rosa and she jumped.  Even considering that she had been deep in thought... to think that she hadn't noticed him at all...  "...You scared me. Sorry, I guess I was thinking so hard that I didn't notice you. Need something?" "No. The reason you are currently in pain is because of love, Rosa-sama. Am I wrong?" "Th, that's sudden. I'm not sure what you're talking about." "...Maria-sama's father wanted you to be the co-signer on a loan, and you accepted, Rosa-sama." "...What a troublesome kid. You were listening to Krauss nii-san from the hallway, weren't you...?"...True, earlier this day, in this very room, Krauss had seen through to the fact that Rosa was bearing a massive debt because she had become a co-signer on a loan. However, he hadn't said that her partner had been Maria's father... Why... did Kanon know so much...?  BGM: Rose "...I hadn't yet moved to his family register, but I thought of the man I would soon marry as my partner. If he couldn't borrow the money without my name, I figured that helping him out was my responsibility as his future wife." "...And did that future ever come?" "..."No, it hadn't. So afterwards... Rosa was always alone. And Maria... never had a father. However, time moved on. Maria, who should have been a symbol of their union, just kept growing, almost like a living hourglass measuring the length of the hell Rosa had crawled through... Because of that, Maria's growth... hurt. "...It's ironic. I tried to forget that man several times. But you know, forgetting him doesn't get rid of that debt."It was only natural. That's why she had to forget her love and do all she could to pay that money back. "But you know, I also think of it this way. If I can manage to pay everything off, it'll mean that I've passed the trial of love that he gave me. If I have to pay off my debt anyway, how can I abandon my reward, the love I'll gain as a result, before it's over...? Don't you think I could put off thinking about that until after I've paid it all back...?" "..."It may have been a trick of words that only those who have suffered through love could understand. Even Rosa vaguely realized that she might have been deceived. However, if she was able to succeed in paying back the loan, he might acknowledge her usefulness as a wife... When that happened, she might be able to regain that love. And if she abandoned that love? This debt, this 'trial that he had given her', would become completely meaningless... Yes, for her, the debt itself appeared to be a trial of love. In fact, the very fact that she looked at it that way might have been her blindness due to love, as well as proof that she still hadn't rid herself of her affection and firm belief in the past... And that pain still continued within her... At the very least, until she paid back the massive loan, and let a good deal of time pass after that, until she could finally lay her feelings for him to rest... "...Could this be... that hell Kyrie-sama spoke of?" "...Probably. Though I'm not sure what you're talking about. There's no doubt that my world has been a total hell." "And how can that be put to an end...?" "...Who knows? If anyone did, no one would ever be crushed by the disease of love."That disease is a serious one. It sometimes eats into a person for their entire life, spreading to and hurting the people closest to them. That disease was torturing her now as much as it ever had...  BGM: Witch in Gold (cembalo) Though she had her man stolen from her, she persevered for 18 years. She never fell to despair, and instead continued to support Rudolf, hiding and waiting for a miracle... "Maria is still nine years old. I've only waited for the first half of Kyrie's 18 years. If I gave up after just this, she would laugh at me." "...Do you think that a miracle will occur within nine years?" "...If I doubt that, it's all over." "..." "In a sense, I'm a ghost. I am already dead. I'm just living on without noticing." "...A ghost waiting for eternity for a person who will never come..." "That's right. That day, when I naively said that I wanted to support his dream, I was probably already dead. I guess that really was a regretful day, in the end. 'I have dreams. I want to go overseas. I'll fly out of this tiny country, make it big, and come back to you'. That takes me back..."...At that time, I thought of lovers as a pair of people willing to acknowledge the other's radical dreams. That's why he would always talk happily about how I'd become a successful designer and release new items in Paris while being jostled by the press. When I think about it, I really had my head in the clouds during that strange time. We both lifted the other up, as though we were drifting about in the air. So, when he said that he wanted to get out of Japan, I applauded him and promised to support him. Acknowledging each other's great dreams is a standard sort of pillow talk for lovers. However, when it comes to actually carrying them out, you need to be more serious and calculating.  "...But you still regret it." "...That's right. If I had sobbed and told him to stop on that day, I might not have fallen into hell. Seeing him off with a smile was my victory? Of course not. It's as though I lost by default by refusing to fight when the time came. I only glorified that loss, saw him off with a smile as he went to take on the world overseas, and became intoxicated with the illusion that I was some brave woman waiting patiently for her man's return with her daughter. Even though, without a single call from him, mail sent to the address he had given me came back 'forwarding address unknown'..." "..." "...This is hell. In this hell, I'll regret not fighting when I should have until the day I die. I've even dragged my daughter into it. I wish someone would just kill me. I want to be told that I've already been killed, that I'm a ghost." "...In love, if you do not fight, you fall into hell."  "Will you win and gain, or lose and die?" "But please, have no fear of death." "After all, it is a peaceful sleep."  ""The truly terrifying thing is... the hell into which falls the unsleeping ghosts who cannot win yet cannot die."" "...That hell has no end..." "The battle of love is cruelest... to those who do not fight yet cannot die." "...So in love, you've got to give it a shot and put it all on the line. Dying in battle... is better than the alternative." "They say the most torturous toxin for humans is made from rotting love. The suffering it brings... exceeds the tortures of the most twisted hells."She used this knowledge to try and embolden her double and little sister, encouraging her to take on any trial no matter how fierce...  "...I understand."After all, when my desire to have Battler-san accept me one day wells up in my chest, I can feel the seed that resides there.  "...It is up to me to kill that seed or make it bud. However, if I let it rot here in my chest, that poison will surely torment me forever..." "And that... is the most fearsome torture in the world, even for us thousand year old witches..." "See what happens to those who make light of love! This hell of Rosa's-" "Is what happens to those who do not possess the courage to make the seed of love bud, and instead allow it to rot."  ""One cannot end that pain by their own hands.""  BGM: None ...Huh? Just now... was that a red light...? "...Pardon me." "...Huh...? What...?"Just now... I thought... I saw something strange. I wonder if I'm tired... It's probably just my imagination. Rosa picked up her cup of cold tea. When she did, she saw a small... red rose petal float to the surface. ...A... rose...?  BGM: Worldend (solo) "..."It... wasn't a rose petal. It was... a drop of blood... that had fallen from Rosa's eyes. In an instant, Kanon had beautifully and precisely... cut just a single thread of Rosa's life... There was no wound on Rosa's body. However, several drops of blood... dripped down from her eyes. Her pain, her uncertainties, and her worries... were all gone now. Slowly, she fell down onto her side on the sofa. This had been the happiest thing she had done during the happiest time of her life... "Sleep well, Rosa-sama. Your hell... has ended."Kanon took a blanket out of a cupboard... and gently covered Rosa with it... To anyone, it would have looked just as though Rosa was sleeping peacefully... ...Those demons had not exaggerated when calling this trial a battle of love. It was at least accurate on this cruel but unassailable fact: that those who have their love shattered meet with death... "...Now my part is complete. Did you see, demons?"  "...D, drat..." BGM: Fake Red Shoes  Video: Kanon VS MARIAOne of the two great witches of Mariage Sorciere, MARIA. Though she was just an apprentice, the power sleeping within her had impressed even Beatrice at the height of her strength. In MARIA's eyes, though Rosa was the black witch, she was also the vessel of the mother she couldn't help but love. Her anger at having that stolen from her was near madness.  "How could you... Mama, Mama, Mama!! Nngggyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!"MARIA's attack was too emotional. Because of this, she didn't notice that Kanon had vanished for several heartbeats... and she released her barrage at what had become empty space. In the meantime, Kanon jumped from wall to wall, around to MARIA's back...  "...Huh... h...?" "...I don't want to kill past my quota. But I will defend myself...!!" "Wh, what are.. you-" "...Diplomatic immunity! I won't let you target MARIA or me...!" "D, drat..."The red locus blade extending from Kanon's hand vanished in an instant. He managed to make it reappear, but when he tried to use it on Maria and Sakutarou again, it vanished once more. Because of Sakutarou's power, he was unable to make either of them the target of his attacks.  "...There you are. Since when have you been there...?" "Uryuu... I won't let anyone bully MARIA." "D, dammit..."MARIA finally noticed where Kanon was, and she slowly turned around... Kanon made his sword materialize yet again, but no matter how often he tried, it kept fading out, like a flashlight with a bad battery... "I won't let you get away now... I won't forgive you... for the sin of stealing my Mama away... I'll kill you." "Just like Mama killed the others, I'll kill you without mercy!!!"As MARIA howled, the entire parlor was surrounded by a cube of red, magic barriers. It was a closed room symbolizing a barrier that Kanon could never escape. "...D, dammiiiiiit...!! Not... here...!"Kanon cursed his bad luck. Even though he had fulfilled his goal in the demons' trial, if he was killed here, he'd be dragged off of the game board...! "...MARIA. Take it easy." "Yeah, take it easy. I'll be a little more gentle than Mama was. Kuhihihihihihihhi, hahahahahaah hahaahahahahahahyahahaaaaaaaaaahh!!!"  BGM: Solitary Deep Sea Fish "...?!?!" "Uryu, who is it?!"  "Shannon, don't get... in my waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!" "It's pointless, Shannon. I won't let anyone target MARIA...!" "Yes. I don't intend to target her in any way. I will simply protect myself."A cylindrical red magical barrier surrounded Shannon as she stood in the center of the parlor. She made its brightness and thickness grow, and its radius suddenly expanded, filling up the room. It wasn't targeting MARIA. This power was being wielded to protect Shannon's body. So, Sakutarou's power didn't make it disappear.   "Would you let your feelings for Milady collapse in a situation like this? Get ahold of yourself...!" "Ugh, ghgh, gghh...!!" "Uryu... uu...!!"By now, the shield with Shannon at the center had covered up the entire room. Its power crushed MARIA and Sakutarou into the corner of the room. Ironically, they were perfectly wedged between Shannon's barrier and the closed room barrier MARIA had set up to prevent Kanon from escaping.  "...No... good... Can't... escape..." "...*cackle*cackle*, kuhihihihihihiihihihihhihihiihi!! That's right, this is a closed room... Kihihihihihihihihihihi! This might be just perfect for that wannabe detective who's trying to deny Beato's magic." "...Checkmate, Maria-sama. Is that acceptable?" "Yeah, it's fine!! Crush me! Kihhihhihhihhihhihhihhii!!" "Then here it comes...!" BGM: None The entire room was filled with the red light of the shield, and the output and pressure were raised to their limits. Then, crushed between the shield and their own closed room barrier, MARIA and Sakutarou lost their forms, scattered into a golden splash, and disappeared...  "If you lost in a place like this, you wouldn't be able to give up." "...Yeah. I wouldn't give up if I lost in a place like this."  BGM: Waltz Op. 34 "Then shall we finish with Beatrice's turn...? Oh, where did she go?" "To the victim she has chosen, of course."
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Jun 5, 2017 13:24
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goddamn I wanted Maria to murder Erika
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Jun 5, 2017 13:57
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I don't think that's how Diplomatic Immunity works, but I'm always welcome for Sakutarou's chance to shine...oh.  Just what was Maria referring to with Rosa killing others? She's aware of the game going on maybe she's referring to a previous Episode like Episode 2, I could picture her being in on the murders there. Although maybe she's referring to Sakutarou now that I think about it.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:11
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Fabulousvillain posted:Just what was Maria referring to with Rosa killing others? She's aware of the game going on maybe she's referring to a previous Episode like Episode 2, I could picture her being in on the murders there. Although maybe she's referring to Sakutarou now that I think about it. I think it's Sakutarou and—I'm pretty certain now—Chiester 556.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:21
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Shannon and Kanon are just never separate. Congrats on killing a nine year old, I guess.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:24
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This is an interesting tidbit here, that Maria cannot be targeted by the killer, but can still be killed in self-defense. So in Episode 3, whoever carried out the 2nd twilight only meant to kill Rosa. Then in Episode 4, did Maria deliberate take the poison to be with Rosa, or does diplomatic immunity not apply once the ritual is complete?
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Jun 5, 2017 19:02
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ZiegeDame posted:This is an interesting tidbit here, that Maria cannot be targeted by the killer, but can still be killed in self-defense. So in Episode 3, whoever carried out the 2nd twilight only meant to kill Rosa. Then in Episode 4, did Maria deliberate take the poison to be with Rosa, or does diplomatic immunity not apply once the ritual is complete? By "diplomatic immunity," you mean "has trouble killing a 9-year-old." And you seem have struck a good idea of how Maria dies: either self-defense or suicide, considering how protective she is of her mother. I would also like to say, wow Rosa. you are the worst at having a significant other, even worse than Rudolf. I'd say.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:40
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I don't think Maria has diplomatic immunity because she's a 9 year old. I think she has diplomatic immunity because she's a close personal friend of the killer.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:53
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It's sad there's a part of her still desperate that the guy who conned her will return, especially given the massive amount of bullying and abuse she experienced as a kid - she's so starved for affection that she's easy prey for a con man and still holding out the hope that it's not a lie.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:16
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being Rosa is suffering
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Jun 5, 2017 20:17
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Robindaybird posted:It's sad there's a part of her still desperate that the guy who conned her will return, especially given the massive amount of bullying and abuse she experienced as a kid - she's so starved for affection that she's easy prey for a con man and still holding out the hope that it's not a lie. It's a well documented fact that victims of abuse tend to either become abusive themselves or seek out the "familiarity" of other abusive relationships. Rosa just doubled down.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:18
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Hmm, with this progression it's going to end up one short. I seem to remember Sakutarou called on diplomatic immunity before, but I can't remember exactly where. Was it during the Erika vs MARIA section?
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Jun 5, 2017 20:26
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Robindaybird posted:It's sad there's a part of her still desperate that the guy who conned her will return, especially given the massive amount of bullying and abuse she experienced as a kid - she's so starved for affection that she's easy prey for a con man and still holding out the hope that it's not a lie. It's worse than that - Kanon and the love demons are calling her out for not trying. They're blaming her for, not for falling in love with a con man, but for not being dedicated enough or putting the proper effort into falling in love with a con man. That's messed up, love demons. Oh, and I guess some people got murdered too. Also, Battler, you are not subtle about these scenarios. Jessica meets Kyrie and Kyrie goes on an uncharacteristic rant about how she'd kill for love - something she believes, but something that she has previously kept quite close in and only shared when a fight for her life had started. Then Kanon comes for Rosa and Rosa talks about already being dead. Come on, you're supposed to build up to these moments. Also Sakutarou, you should be ashamed of yourself for your diplomatic immunity failure. If someone says something is a shield and uses it as a weapon, you call them out on it.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:39
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Fabulousvillain posted:Just what was Maria referring to with Rosa killing others? She's aware of the game going on maybe she's referring to a previous Episode like Episode 2, I could picture her being in on the murders there. Although maybe she's referring to Sakutarou now that I think about it. I was thinking she was referring to the animal figures Rosa broke in an Ep. 4 flashback.
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Jun 6, 2017 04:04
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Jade Rider posted:I was thinking she was referring to the animal figures Rosa broke in an Ep. 4 flashback. That's what I meant, although I should have used the more formal wording: The Assassination of Sakutarou by the Coward Rosa Ushiromiya. (I don't remember who made this joke in the last thread, but I should at least mention it wasn't me)
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Jun 6, 2017 05:18
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 BGM: None Krauss had told her to go to bed, but she couldn't afford to lie around sleeping on an important day like this. However, she realized that she was the type to get excited easily, and that this sometimes held her husband back... So, though she didn't like it one bit, there was no way around it... It was probably close to the time for the break to end, and the family conference would begin once again in the dining hall. Her husband would have to protect the Ushiromiya family honor from those greedy siblings... all by himself. If she grew emotional by his side, she would just tie him down. Though she knew that quietly waiting here was the best way she could support him, that didn't make the waiting any easier. Natsuhi pulled the small box she kept treasures in out of the drawer. This was her secret box. Inside was everything from valuable items to mere rubbish. However, they were all precious, memorable treasures in Natsuhi's eyes. She pulled a small pouch out of the box. She stuck her hand inside it. ...It was a kind of charm that her own family had given her when she had married. It was a spirit mirror to ward off evil. Her own face was reflected in the mirror. She wasn't as young as she once was. Recently, she had seen a bit of her parents and grandparents on her own face. So by staring at her reflection in the mirror like this, she felt as though her soul had returned to the family she had been born into...  BGM: 599 Million Ruins Of course, her face in the mirror did not answer... However, Natsuhi continued.  "...I am waiting here alone because I love my husband. However, I think love means being close to one another. Though I understand logically that staying here is the best way I can help him, I still feel wretched for doing it... It's tough, isn't it... waiting for the sake of love..."With a plop, a tear fell onto the mirror. Old, dear memories of her life at her parents' house rose up inside her. Now was the time... for her to follow her parents' example... When her father came home late, her mother would always sit up straight waiting for him, prepared for him to arrive at any moment. She would always wait for him, kneeling in the entrance hall, and no matter how late he came home, she would always wake up all the children and line them up to greet him. At the time, I only thought of her as being exceptionally strict, but at this age, I finally understand how strong she was, persevering in her love for her beloved husband even after being left in charge of the house while he was out.  Video: Beatrice VS NatsuhiBGM: Play  "...?!?!"The sudden voice made Natsuhi jump up and look about the room. When she did, there was a western lady wrapped in an extravagant dress. "Wh, who are you?!" Natsuhi was confused. There was no one like this in this mansion. However, though this was her first time seeing her, it felt as though she had seen this person somewhere else... Her mind had gone blank with her anger at the ruffian who had snuck into her private room and confusion over the appearance of someone she didn't know, so much so that it took quite a bit of time before she realized that this was the witch of the portrait.  "...Though you murdered a baby you didn't know on that day 19 years ago, I will not hold that sin against you." "Wh, what are... you... talking about...?"Beato had chosen Natsuhi as her sacrifice. She was 'Battler's' enemy. Beato didn't understand much about the details of Battler's birth. However, she knew the Fragment of the previous game, and knew there was a chance that Battler was the baby that Natsuhi had pushed off a cliff 19 years ago. Battler had used his blue wedge to protect Natsuhi from certain false charges, but since that might have been related to Battler's own confession, Beato still viewed Natsuhi as an enemy who might have forced Battler to live a painful life.  "You killed that baby, who lacked your husband's blood, for the sake of your love for your husband, so, also for the sake of love, I will not hold it against you." "I don't... have a clue what you're talking about!! Get out!! This is my room!!" Beato slowly stuck out her arms... and made as if to grab something in empty space. That grab... bound itself around Natsuhi's neck. "Ggh... ah... eh..."Natsuhi's heels lifted up, and a faint, purple shape appeared around her neck... Natsuhi frantically scratched at her neck, trying to stop whatever was strangling her, but there was nothing there. So, to an outsider, it just looked as though Natsuhi was standing on her toes in anguish, scratching at her own neck.  "...Both pairs of lovers have shown their determination. I do not think... that my love for Battler-san is inferior to theirs... Just as I will not blame you for your sin of 19 years ago, I will not blame myself for this sin...!" "...Eh gah gghh..."As Natsuhi twisted in agony, something she had been grasping fell from her grip. Since it had fallen by her feet, Beato dropped her gaze to see what it was...  BGM: Black Lilliana When she peered into it, there was a sound like a burst of electricity. That sound released Natsuhi from the invisible hands... and made Beato topple backwards like a doll. "*cough*...*cough*cough*...? ?!??"Coughing, Natsuhi tried to comprehend what was going on around her. Beato rolled over and, dizzy as though she had just bumped her head, she slowly tried to stand up. Her eyes were bewildered, as though even she didn't really understand what had happened.  "...Wh, what... what is this...?" "E, even I... don't have a clue what's happening... What in the world..."She had thought that only Beato the elder possessed the non-human weak points such as getting burned by spiderwebs and wards and having her power sealed by spirit mirrors. However, for some reason, this spirit mirror alone could apparently affect Beato as well. Even Beato couldn't understand what about the spirit mirror had had such an overpowering effect on her.  But Natsuhi was different. She instantly realized that the reason for the hesitation of this unearthly being, this witch of the portrait... must be the power of the mirror. So, she rapidly crawled across the floor and picked up the mirror. Then, she stuck it out so that Beato could see it... Beato still didn't know what was happening, so, still sitting down, she looked straight at it. And this time, both of them understood the situation completely. Beato realized that the mirror was working some hateful power against her. And Natsuhi realized that the spirit mirror had the power to repel witches.  "...Gghh... uuuuuhhh...!! Wh, why is... the mirror...?!" "It is because you are an evil witch. This miraculous spirit mirror repels all creatures of evil...!" "...Don't... point it at me...!"With the spirit mirror still held out, Natsuhi cautiously closed the gap between them. She was cautious, so as to prevent the other from suddenly lashing out and stealing the mirror, but she steadily moved to corner this evil. "I... I do not know who you are. All I know is that you tried to kill me. And I know that you are a creature of evil, fearful of this spirit mirror. Begone, evil one...!!"Beato didn't understand what was happening herself. She didn't know why she had to fear this spirit mirror. However, when she tried to look at the bright light let off by the spirit mirror, it pierced her eyes. Though she didn't understand why she must be afraid, she did understand that she must be afraid. By now, Beato realized that this spirit mirror was both terrifying and harmful. As it came closer to her, she felt an increasingly stronger burning sensation over her whole body, as though someone was approaching her with a hot iron. She couldn't even open her eyes because of the mirror's bright, painful glint... "Uuuuu... ah... aaaaaaaahhh... ah..." "Go, return to the world from whence you came, evil one! I, Ushiromiya Natsuhi, do not fear evil in the least!"...It's... no use... Why...? Why is this... musty mirror... so...  Just like George-san and Shannon-san... Jessica-san and Kanon-san... I also want Battler-san to acknowledge me... and treasure me... And... even though I've finally admitted that... I alone... in a place like this...  "Believe! The miracle of love will surely occur!"...I... love... Battler-san... I want him to notice me. And I want him to acknowledge and accept my feelings... If my reason for calling him Father and dedicated myself to him... was out of duty towards a parent of mine, I would have been satisfied with no reward... That had been... a deception to fool myself with... ...I... love Battler-san. And I want him to see me. I accept it. I won't turn away any longer.  "...And so... I cannot lose... here..." "Begone, evil one!! There is no place for you here!" "Nn, gwaah...!!!"Her determination had come too late. If she had had it since the beginning, she would probably have finished Natsuhi off right then without any fear. Because she had wavered, it had taken time to kill Natsuhi, and things had ended up like this. But now, I am resolved. I want to love Battler-san. I want him to love me.  "...And so... I cannot lose here...! After all, I was born for Battler-san's sake...!!"  BGM: Dreamenddischarger "...Ah...?!"Just after a sound like a beetle banging off all the walls in the room, the spirit mirror was knocked out of Natsuhi's outstretched hand. It fell onto the floor, and the stake flying around the room pierced through it with a crash.  "...Huh?! Ah, Lucifer... san...?" "Beatrice-sama, you must complete your trial...! She'll get away...!" Now that the spirit mirror, her last ray of hope, had been smashed, and the number of strange demons had increased, Natsuhi could do nothing but run for it. However, if she made a scene and people gathered, the anti-magic toxin would burn Beato. Now was her last chance.  "Th, thank you, Lucifer-san...! P, prepare yourself, Ushiromiya Natsuhi...!" "...Gggah!! Ghghhgg... kk..."Once again, Beato choked the thin air. This time, she wouldn't let her escape. She had to end Natsuhi's pain right away before it got too drawn out. But... her power wasn't... enough... Though Natsuhi scratched at her neck, she also struggled to escape from the room. Her shaking hand... stretched out... to the lock on the door. A closed room is one of the definitions that makes a witch. Just unlocking the door made the anti-magic toxin strengthen a little. Since Beato was at her limit even within a closed room, if Natsuhi undid that lock, Beato's power would weaken immediately, and Natsuhi would surely escape into the hallway. Their strengths were matched. However, Natsuhi's began to surpass Beato's slightly... The power of the living to live is fundamentally stronger than the power of magic. Of course, Beato was mustering all her might. However, Natsuhi was just slightly stronger...  BGM: Bread of Life  "A, as you wish!" Natsuhi... crumpled slowly. When Beato saw this, she also fell to her knees, breathing hard.  "That's right, Furfur! True, this trial must be accomplished without borrowing the help of any other!" "But maybe this is an exception?!" ""A pair in love are as one! This doesn't count as help from outside!"" "...B, Battler-san..." "M, my apologies... Sorry I didn't listen to your instructions..." "Instructions?" "...Well, I didn't stay in my room..."Beato hung her head apologetically. When he saw this, Battler scratched his head uncomfortably.  "In that case, I should apologize too. I should have been more kind." "N, no, you did nothing wrong... Father... I... I mean... Battler-san..." "It's okay. Call me whatever you like." "Huh...?"Battler had always looked at the new Beatrice sternly. However, that was gone from his expression now...  "...True, the old you may have called me just 'Battler'. At first, I might have tried to force you to speak to me that way. However, that would be pointless. You are Beato... but you're yourself. You can call me whatever you want." "B, Battler-san..." "Sure, that works great. Can't say being called Father is really my thing." "...Y, yes..."Earlier, she had hesitated just to say Battler's name at all. If Battler had told her to say his name without honorifics, she couldn't have done so right now, and even if she had, that might have hurt Battler even more. However, now, she was allowed to call Battler by his name. If you just looked into her eyes, there would be no need to describe just how happy this made her feel...  "Y, yes... Sorry for being so selfish..." "No problem. That reckless way you get into something before you understand it is really like you. And... well, I've heard about the theme of the game. Apparently, you're supposed to play it in pairs." "Yes, that is correct, sir!!" "If you can succeed in winning through our trial!" ""We will bless the pair of you and bestow a miracle of magic upon you!"" "It seems these guys have been given the power of Beato's golden butterfly brooch. That means their effect is guaranteed. We've been stuck with each other for a long time now. Nothing wrong with playing this sort of game every now and then." "...Battler-san..." "Oh, did you hear that, Furfur?! It looks like Lord BATTLER is joining in as well!!" "That's no surprise! After all, we've known since the beginning!" ""Welcome to our trial, Lord BATTLER! Then, who will your sacrifice be?!"" "Very well, Lord BATTLER! Come, Furfur, let's go check!" "Yes, let's! But Zepar? This means that all six lovers have succeeded in their trials, right? What should we do next?!" ""The resolve of all six is the real deal! Let us test them further in the next trial!""The two noisy demons disappeared. It seemed that they had left to go check on the sacrifice Battler had killed, and that they had done so also so that Battler and Beato, who could finally look each other in the eye and talk, could have some time alone...  BGM: Sukashiyuri When suddenly asked this question, Ange immediately came to her senses... Then, she realized that she had been immersed in the other's tale. She felt a bit defeated and tried to look displeased.  "Y... you've cleverly tried to mix things up with all this about the love trial, but exactly six people have died, setting up the first twilight. Impressive." "Oh, you're right. I didn't realize."Amakusa clapped his hands as though he'd been outsmarted. Even though he'd figured it out before me, he played the fool.  "...That's simply because the number of lovers just happened to be six. The fact that it matched to the number of the first twilight was half coincidence, half design. It's a bit more interesting that way. Feels more like fate." "Humans have the bad habit of taking two meaningless phenomena and trying to link them together. Trying to make things seem like fate is a 'trick' of books." "I guess you aren't a fan of destiny and miracles, Lady." "It's like UFOs. Everyone knows about them, but no one has ever seen them." "There's a cool metaphor." "...So. Normally, I'd try to skip over all the love and illusions and call them unnecessary, useless scenes for the mystery... But Okonogi-san disagreed with that way of thinking. He thought that, by looking at things without love that way, the truth could never be reached." "Ah, you mean President Okonogi's killer phrase? Without love, it cannot be seen?" "Yeah, that. If I put aside my anger at the person who killed my family in a story, and even speak with respect for Hachijo, the one who wrote this tale, then there must be a point to this depiction. After all, she's used up all these pages talking about love and trials. In other words, those are the themes and key words of this tale." "...Oho. And there are many who claim that all words not written in red ink are not worth reading. It is an honor, child of man, that you have read the black letters as well." "Stories are written because the writer has something they want to communicate. And some writers feel that it's unrefined to lay everything out too directly. All of this about how you'll never reach the truth without love has shown up many times in the works before this one. This new work makes that even more striking. It means that that is the one thing the writer wanted to tell the most... the thing that they want us to think about the most." Even the first time she appeared before Shannon, she spoke clearly about how love was the single element of the world. And the golden butterfly brooch she had given... was also an item for love. She had said that she enjoyed sowing seeds of love and watching complications arise, and when Shannon stopped borrowing her power, the reason for her argument was also love. After her interactions with Battler started up in full, scenes about love were toned down for a while, but the 'without love, it cannot be seen' definition of magic had been mentioned repeatedly. Then, in the tale right before this one, where Beato had become like a doll, the scenes shown made it seem almost as though Battler and Beato accepted each other as rivals... or possibly something more. In the end, Battler had regained some memory, and his impression of Beato had undergone a complete change. And then, this game. From the beginning until now, the word 'love' has been repeated over and over again.  "...Correct. That is what I wanted to tell. And it is my own sort of 'answer'." "Answer? Then all of the crimes 12 years ago were a trial of love started by strange demons?" "Ridiculous. I didn't come here to read a romance novel you wrote. What I want to know about is the truth you claim to have reached." BGM: None With an obviously condescending gaze, Hachijo shrugged. It was clear that she was trying to provoke Ange. She was probably hinting that Ange should just go home if she was annoyed. 'If you're going to read my noble work and not even attempt to see whether you understand it, then get out'. Normally, Ange would already have thrown a fit and left. However, Ange couldn't do that. Though she didn't like someone else toying with her family's fates in a story, she was growing increasingly certain of something else as she read through the story. ...Just as Hachijo's followers said, this tale really does have the same presence... the same scent as the tales written by Beatrice. The author is certainly different. However, because it reached to the real truth, it had the same scent... Ange was beginning to acknowledge this. Hachijo Toya... was one who had reached Beatrice's truth, an 'Endless Witch' like Beatrice, who could add to the endlessly stretching parallel worlds of the cat box...  "...If one has reached Beatrice's truth, they can create a new tale, whoever they are. With this new manuscript, I'm sure some other than myself will appear and reach the truth. Those people will be qualified to create new tales of their own." "So there will be more and more Endless Witches..." "Yes. And these many Endless Witches will add to Beatrice's cat box tale. The more they add to it, the more people will reach the truth... When that happens, the very first Endless Witch, Beatrice, will finally be rewarded for writing such long letters, packing them in bottles, and throwing them into the sea..." "..." "...You might have yelled at me angrily and risen from your seat. However, you did not. Why?" BGM: A Single Moment I already have my own ideas. However, that's no more than looking with a single eye. Unless I accept a different viewpoint from my own and look at things from more than one angle, I'll never be able to see the truth in three dimensions. That's my interpretation of 'without love, it cannot be seen'. "Very well, child of man. Perhaps, as the final survivor of the Ushiromiya family, it was fated that you would find the truth and become an Endless Witch. I exist only as a guidepost to awaken you as the true successor. ANGE Beatrice."Sometimes, I don't understand what she's saying... However, she knows something. And maybe... she actually has reached the truth, as she claims... In other words, I don't know the truth even after the two message bottles Beatrice left behind, and I've read several tales with hints afterwards. "So, these hints are challenges, provoking me to think." "...Indeed." "Perfect. I'll find this truth you say you've reached. It's a good thing I came here." "That it is. I invited you here because you hadn't found it yet, child of man..."Let the truth I see and the truth you see overlap. Just as you see things with a single eye, so do I. Now that I've found you, I can finally look at the truth with both eyes.   "...You have some sleep in your eye." "Huh? Wh, where... Th, that's none of your business." "...Hmph. As you wish, let's begin. First off, the first twilight."
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 13:31
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Step it up
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Jun 7, 2017 14:12
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It's easy to talk a big game when you've got fancy colored text to confirm if you're right or not. I can use whatever formatting I want but I doesn't tell me if I'm right or wrong. So now that we've concluded the Murder of the Many Mom, should we expect that Battler's kill was Kumasawa, just to finish off all the adult women on the island? And if so, does this mean Nanjo is gonna try to spend the rest of the episode alone in his room again?
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Jun 7, 2017 16:04
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Think these two images might be in reverse, doesn't seem to flow right in the order presented. But huh... OK. I've been thinking about what these murders mean and the relationship they hold to the murderers (and bear in mind that I speak of things in Magic Land, not the real things that they reflect on the real island which we don't know). George killed his mother becasuse she was an obstacle both real and developmentally to his relationship, no surprise there, and it is also fitting that his opponent was Eva Beatrice, since she has ever been portrayed as Eva's ambitions without her love. Fine; good matchup, thematically resonant. Another bit I thought was good was Kanon's matchup with Rosa, because of all the characters, he seems the most visibly and viscerally offended by Rosa's abuse of Maria (granted, nobody else is portrayed as liking it, but SOP for most family members seems to be to ignore it until it goes away, whereas Kanon has been the only one to say that it's awful and try to comfort Maria about it), again with the thematic resonance. You can even kind of see it with Jessica and Kyrie, in the theme of acting upon your desires versus letting them languish, but that's been the theme of all of the murders presented iin Twilight 1, and it doesn't really have much beyond that. Shannon, similarly, falls down there, as she had always been portrayed as being at least kind of sympathetic to Maria (I definitely suspect her to be the one dressing up as Beatrice to cheer her up/form Mariage Sorceriux[sic]), and she kills the girl quite viciously too... I guess there's something to be said for the "mercy" of freeing her from her unhealthy relationship with her mom, but still weird. And then we have Natsuhi and Chick Beatrice, but the only connection they have to each other would be if Beatrice was Cliff Baby (meaning, fitting it into the other theories, would be Kanon=Shannon=Beatrice=Cliff Baby... and I dunno, that works, but seems too pat). Or maybe I'm off base again, and this decision of these murders (which could have been made by Z&F/Battler/Toya, at this point) has nothing to do with the individuals involved, but the relationships they're in. Which include stalking a man for years in order to steal him from an ill woman, sitting on your hands waiting for your trifling man to stop cheating and come home, forcing your child down their life path without considering their feelings, and deluding yourself that your forced marriage to yes a nice husband but a whole bunch of other people you don't even like is actually a good thing... perhaps the idea is that these relationships are being ended because they are tainted, because they failed the love test, or whatever.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:09
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fanfic writers are witches too! and yes, I love you too Ryukishi07
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Jun 7, 2017 17:30
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Well at least this is a reconciling of sorts before things go to hell.
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Jun 7, 2017 19:10
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So Ange has switched from telling a story to the storytelling witch back to having a conversation with a fanfic writer who wrote about the murder of her family. Because of course one was a metaphor for the other, though I doubt either happened. And Battler seems to be acting completely out of character. Uh, sure. Maybe he killed piece Battler. Or Erika, everyone would love that. Also, the love demons seem to be shipping Lucifer/Beato/Battler as a trio. Ok then.
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Jun 7, 2017 19:45
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Please let Battler have killed Erika. Please.
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Jun 7, 2017 19:58
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ProfessorProf posted:Beato didn't understand what was happening herself. She didn't know why she had to fear this spirit mirror. However, when she tried to look at the bright light let off by the spirit mirror, it pierced her eyes. Though she didn't understand why she must be afraid, she did understand that she must be afraid. Hmmm. This is really interesting. If Baby Beatrice is unaffected by the usual anti-demon stuff, why does the spirit mirror repel her? It could be because it's connected to Natsuhi in particular? Or maybe it's because of some symbolic meaning in the mirror as an object. Mirrors in art are often symbols of truth, vanity, the ego, and self-confrontation.
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Jun 7, 2017 20:04
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resurgam40 posted:Or maybe I'm off base again, and this decision of these murders (which could have been made by Z&F/Battler/Toya, at this point) has nothing to do with the individuals involved, but the relationships they're in. Which include stalking a man for years in order to steal him from an ill woman, sitting on your hands waiting for your trifling man to stop cheating and come home, forcing your child down their life path without considering their feelings, and deluding yourself that your forced marriage to yes a nice husband but a whole bunch of other people you don't even like is actually a good thing... perhaps the idea is that these relationships are being ended because they are tainted, because they failed the love test, or whatever. Perhaps, but actually they seem like perfect candidates to pass. They have carried on with their resolve through the difficulties. They're basically in nu-Beatrice's position, but they're still striving to achieve their goals, achievable or not. witchcore ricepunk posted:Hmmm. This is really interesting. If Baby Beatrice is unaffected by the usual anti-demon stuff, why does the spirit mirror repel her? It could be because it's connected to Natsuhi in particular? Or maybe it's because of some symbolic meaning in the mirror as an object. Mirrors in art are often symbols of truth, vanity, the ego, and self-confrontation. Self-confrontation seems the obvious answer there. I could see it this way: Beatrice doesn't exist, she 'exists'. Assuming that Beatrice believes in her own existence, looking at the mirror forces whoever Beatrice actually is to realise that they're not who they believe themselves to be.
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Jun 7, 2017 20:22
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I assume it's because Beatrice isn't a being from the island (who are affected by spider webs) but is evil (affected by the mirror). idk though.
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Jun 7, 2017 20:35
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If Battler kills someone does that refer to his piece killed someone meaning the red text expired? Or maybe Kinzo is going to be the sixth person since this is all magic anyway.
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Jun 7, 2017 20:37
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also did Beato always have a moe fang or whatever it's called?
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Jun 7, 2017 20:38
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CottonWolf posted:Self-confrontation seems the obvious answer there. I could see it this way: Beatrice doesn't exist, she 'exists'. Assuming that Beatrice believes in her own existence, looking at the mirror forces whoever Beatrice actually is to realise that they're not who they believe themselves to be. Ok yeah, this makes sense. That, and the idea that the person at the core of all three personalities created them in order to obfuscate their identity and compartmentalize their emotions. Looking at a mirror image of yourself when you've spent so much time and energy basically deleting yourself from existence is probably unbearable. Beatrice, Kanon, and Shannon exist because Sayo can't deal with themself (themselves? You know what I mean). Like, I don't know, I'm also speaking as someone who couldn't really look too closely into a mirror for a long time. This makes sense to me, though I would hope if I were a witch my Kryptonite would be something a little cooler than that.
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Jun 7, 2017 20:44
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I suspect the mirror repelling property is because instead of the face they "think" they have, it's showing the real person's face that they own. Definitely would break and create that anti-magic toxin. Is it just me, or is it getting real difficult to figure out what's "real", what's story, and what's meta? I'm not sure if it's writing issues or something that's suppose to be part of the entire tale, like Scheherazade weaving a story inside a story.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:39
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RedMagus posted:Is it just me, or is it getting real difficult to figure out what's "real", what's story, and what's meta? I'm not sure if it's writing issues or something that's suppose to be part of the entire tale, like Scheherazade weaving a story inside a story. Interpret (and criticize) it as you wish, but it's not accidental on Ryukishi07's part. Chiru is pretty postmodern.
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Jun 8, 2017 04:57
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RedMagus posted:I suspect the mirror repelling property is because instead of the face they "think" they have, it's showing the real person's face that they own. Definitely would break and create that anti-magic toxin. There is a spoiler filled chart explaining the six or so meta layers to the story for you to peruse when we're done here.
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Jun 8, 2017 04:59
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RedMagus posted:Is it just me, or is it getting real difficult to figure out what's "real", what's story, and what's meta? I'm not sure if it's writing issues or something that's suppose to be part of the entire tale, like Scheherazade weaving a story inside a story. Not really having trouble myself since I gave up trying to figure out how that works back in Episode 3. The way I've accepted it is that you, me, and everyone reading is witnessing multiple timelines and dimensions stacking on top of one another with each episode. I think like anything with too many layers it will eventually collapse in it self and someone, probably Battler or Erika, will have to pick up things up back to one comprehensible layer again. Or this will bounce back so hard that we'll follow Ryukishi07's story of how he was arrested trying to film the ending without permits.
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Jun 8, 2017 05:29
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RedMagus posted:I suspect the mirror repelling property is because instead of the face they "think" they have, it's showing the real person's face that they own. Definitely would break and create that anti-magic toxin. Agreed on both fronts.
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Jun 8, 2017 05:33
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oath2order posted:There is a spoiler filled chart explaining the six or so meta layers to the story for you to peruse when we're done here. Let's see, which do we have so far. We have the physical Rokkenjima layer ("piece"), with its 17 or fewer humans + Erika and possibly some murders. We have the players (mostly witches), Beato, Lamda, Meta Battler, Bern. We have some things that bridge those two layers - Erika, piece Beatrice, and most of the furniture. And then we have future Ange, who has her own separate layers: Physical Ange, who jumped off of a roof, found out about the payoffs for the surviving kin, and visited Rokkenjima where she got murdered. She also seems to have visited a fanfic author, which is mutually exclusive with her trip to Rokkenjima. It's still the same meta layer, though, just like the various ways the murders play out are mutually exclusive but still on the base meta layer. Witch Ange, who among other things travelled through time back to visit Battler. And then we have shrine maiden Ange, who is chatting with the closest thing we've seen so far to the avatar of the author. This seems like the highest meta layer we've seen so far, observing the witch layer the same way the witch layer observes the physical layer. Arguably some of the Ange layers are at the same level as the present layers. Physical Ange could be on the same layer as physical Rokkenjima, and witch Ange on the same layer as the non-storyteller witches. I'm sure I've missed some, but storyteller/witches/intermediate/physical seems like a decent approximation for now. Also, it's really weird that everything we've seen has been declared, in story, to not be canon. Though not in red because they could be lying. The first 2 were written by (in theory) the killer before they murdered anyone and put in bottles and signed as Maria. The third and fourth were imitators. I don't know what was up with the fifth, and the sixth is apparently by this famous fanfic writer Ange is meeting. Of course, if what future Ange is experiencing is also fictional then it's not a reliable source of whether the other things are fictional. I mean, it's all fictional because it's a visual novel, but you can make it real if you believe hard enough and use love. But if you do that you're kind of a monster, what with believing hard enough to make all of these murders and torture and terrible people real. Qrr fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 06:10
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Qrr posted:Also, it's really weird that everything we've seen has been declared, in story, to not be canon. Though not in red because they could be lying. Naturally, there's no red in the real world. Besides, if I wrote a fictional story and added a line saying "this story really happened" in red, would you believe it?
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Jun 8, 2017 06:53
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tiistai posted:Naturally, there's no red in the real world. Besides, if I wrote a fictional story and added a line saying "this story really happened" in red, would you believe it? We could have had a witch say, in red, the same thing that Ange said in the story itself about the first episode. Heck, Ange could maybe have done it since she's a witch. If you had a character write a story within a story where we have to accept the conceit that red text is true within the overall story (or else refuse it and basically lose all ability to interpret), and someone within that story said that the story within a story was true in red, then I would believe that the story in the story was true in the story. You see that sentence? That's what meta layers do! That's what they've driven me to!
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Jun 8, 2017 07:53
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So do the murders have to happen within the same meta in order to count for the twilights, or is the metaphorical murders enough to count? Wait, no, never mind. Metaphorical. Otherwise, Kinzo doesn't count ever. Maybe the next step in this game is for the couples to figure out how the victims actually died? But that's weird, because Battler, as game master, knows how they died, unless it's piece-game-master-Battler or something, where he's denied that explicit knowledge. Could also explain the sudden kindness, too, but that's just thinking without love. I'd rather not entertain that thought.
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Jun 8, 2017 08:39
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Qrr posted:Also, it's really weird that everything we've seen has been declared, in story, to not be canon. Though not in red because they could be lying. The first 2 were written by (in theory) the killer before they murdered anyone and put in bottles and signed as Maria. The third and fourth were imitators. I don't know what was up with the fifth, and the sixth is apparently by this famous fanfic writer Ange is meeting. Of course, if what future Ange is experiencing is also fictional then it's not a reliable source of whether the other things are fictional. Ok, this makes much more sense. None of these are what's really going on, it's the interpretations of various individuals of what happened, something like Rashamon. I think part of my flaw in understanding was not grasping that.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:44
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RedMagus posted:Is it just me, or is it getting real difficult to figure out what's "real", what's story, and what's meta? I'm not sure if it's writing issues or something that's suppose to be part of the entire tale, like Scheherazade weaving a story inside a story. It is not you. Late to the party there, but the obfuscation between all of these things does seem like a deliberate effort on the authors part: he wants to tell a story, which does contain a mystery, but he also wants to examine how a story is told. This is an interesting example of a form of storytelling, an emotional story, which I haven't really seen a lot outside of music videos and the odd video game- a story in which the core is not the plot or the themes or the study of a character or archetype, but an exploration of an emotional spectrum, the arc that a feeling takes as it transforms into another. In these kind of stories, instead of the plot moving the action forward through a setting influenced by the invoked mood of the piece, it's the emotions of the characters which determine where the plot goes, to the point of actually influencing the environment and setting they're in, instead of the other way around. Moulin Rouge! is an example of such a story, and the anime Revolutionary Girl Utena takes it to a great extreme, to the point that nearly everything that is seen physically is a metaphor for the inner lives of the characters and what they feel and want to do. Thus, on the question of what's "real" or not, the only thing I would not hesitate to call real are the emotions that the characters continually come back to and are influenced by: ambition, loss, regret for past mistakes, vindication of past suffering, revenge for slights real or imagined. I mean, when you get right down to it (and I know this is weird to say after all this), but it doesn't actually matter if Beatrice is "real" or not, is "a witch" or not- what matters is that it is her emotions- her pain, her longing, her betrayal, her unheard and unheeded rage- that are at the core of the story. The question has become not Who is Beatrice, but Why is Beatrice.
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Jun 8, 2017 16:36
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