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wooger posted:A minute? Try 6+ years and counting. If you are doing advance 3d modeling, what you're saying sort of makes since, minus the new imac pro. In the case of everything else, video editing, photo editing, anything of that nature, it's not true. Oh and I guess games, but that sort of weakens a "pro" user argument. As for the new iMacs... They do have current GPU's, and your argument about the market moving on... uh yes? And then iMacs will be updated again? The whole point is that Apple isn't abandoning the Apple market., this shows they still care. There is a huge difference in saying they don't have value to you, vs they don't have value. One argument is fine, the other is not accurate. As for the Mac pros... yeah, they screwed up with the trash can. They apologized and are actively working to fix it. The iMac Pro coming out is a great prosumer machine, that is competitively priced. The new Mac pros next year will be the full Pro machine. Truth is whenever I see someone comparing macs aren't good for gaming because of x or y I instantly am aware they aren't really a pro user. Pro users are too busy getting poo poo done on their machines to use it for gaming, and will just buy a freaking console if they have time to "game" (I'm excluding game developers here, and that's why the new iMac pro is cool and also I'm glad Apple is becoming competitive in that market again) LionArcher fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 20:33
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Ok another super stupid question ... I'm getting this right, I can use a standard-USB-to-TB cable, stick it into a powered USB outlet, and it'll provide at least some power to a Macbook Pro?
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Jun 7, 2017 20:51
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ddogflex posted:Didn't that stop being a thing like 10 years ago? When Find my iPhone and Activation Lock became a thing, yeah.  
FCKGW fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 21:21
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Samsung Galaxy phones also ship with white headphones, so it can't be used as an identifier of quality anymore either. I'm still in shock at the state of my 4-5 year old ear pods, with tears in the rubber and wire showing, that have travelled thousands and thousands of miles across 3 continents and get worn in bed a ton. How they still work is beyond me.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:48
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Cingulate posted:Ok another super stupid question ... I'm getting this right, I can use a standard-USB-to-TB cable, stick it into a powered USB outlet, and it'll provide at least some power to a Macbook Pro? Uhhh I'd double check that it's rated for power draw. Some cables are data only.
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Jun 7, 2017 22:01
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Dick Nipples posted:Uhhh I'd double check that it's rated for power draw. Some cables are data only. ... how often do you new-MBP-havers use that feature?
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Jun 7, 2017 22:04
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Cingulate posted:Ok, so in principle it works. Thanks. I misread your original question. I'd recommend using the full blown charger. It *shouldnt* hurt the device but I'd bet $100 if something hosed up and you told the fruit stand they'd make you pay. In my case, my 15" gets about 10 hours so I use it on and off through the evening and then plug it in before bed.
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Jun 7, 2017 22:06
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ddogflex posted:Didn't that stop being a thing like 10 years ago? not in eastern europe haha
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Jun 7, 2017 22:17
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Did the mini get the same very quiet CPU bump that the Macbook Air got?
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Jun 7, 2017 22:25
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It's possible, but I haven't heard anything about it and from what I can find the mini is still on Haswell instead of Broadwell like the MBA so I doubt it.
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Jun 7, 2017 22:31
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BobHoward posted:Yeah, the 1980s 128K Mac legacy kept classic MacOS pretty lean so a G3 is a rocket ship for it. Terrible, very limiting design, but even with parts of it still running under emulation it was faaaaast on PowerPCs. I'm a retro programmer. 
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Jun 7, 2017 23:12
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Dick Nipples posted:I misread your original question. I'd recommend using the full blown charger. It *shouldnt* hurt the device but I'd bet $100 if something hosed up and you told the fruit stand they'd make you pay.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:15
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Cingulate posted:Well, my idea is, I'm often in situations where I need more power than one battery charge - e.g. when I'm running some semi-heavy computations on the fly. But the full blown charger is big and heavy and expensive. If I could get just a little bit of power out of a tiny charger, that'd be a major benefit to me. According to Apple: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201700 You can use lower wattage PSUs like the MBA one but it may not provide enough power. Depending on the power draw you incur, you may (or may not) draw just enough from the weaker PSU to tread water. More likely, if it's the MBP and you're doing something with the discrete GPU, you'll just lose battery power, but slower. *shrug* - Sounds like it's safe? I dunno if it's worth wasting money on the cheaper & smaller PSU unless you just happen to have an old MB or MBA charger laying around. Keep in mind - the 2016 TB3 MBPs use a PSU that is TB3 in and out. You don't get a standard USB slot on the PSU side. You'll need a dedicated USB-A to USB-C cord that's rated for power draw if you're using a charger that has a USB-A port.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:22
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Dick Nipples posted:You can use lower wattage PSUs like the MBA one but it may not provide enough power. Depending on the power draw you incur, you may (or may not) draw just enough from the weaker PSU to tread water. More likely, if it's the MBP and you're doing something with the discrete GPU, you'll just lose battery power, but slower.
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Jun 8, 2017 01:12
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Cingulate posted:I'd honestly be perfectly happy with that actually. If I can crunch some numbers (on the 13", mind you) on the train, while waiting at an airport, in flight, ... without, or much slower, draining power off of a really light charger (iPhone charger?????), that's a big gain. I'm not convinced the iPhone charger would do lol. But maybe I'm a pessimist. Also, I'm not an electrical engineer, in particular definitely not a power systems engineer. That said, I think it's unlikely the phone charger would even really slow the discharge.
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Jun 8, 2017 01:51
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Twerk from Home posted:Did the mini get the same very quiet CPU bump that the Macbook Air got? I'd bet they're not going to mention it or touch it until they can do it alongside the new Macs Pro.
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Jun 8, 2017 02:35
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DEUCE SLUICE posted:I'd bet they're not going to mention it or touch it until they can do it alongside the new Macs Pro. They can rebrand it as the "Mac Pro Air".
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Jun 8, 2017 03:53
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Teardown of the 2017 21.5 inch iMac is up: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+Retina+4K+Display+2017+Teardown/92170 Now has a socketed CPU so future upgrades will be possible. RAM is not soldered onto logic board, back to SO-DIMMs
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Jun 8, 2017 12:48
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How generous of Apple!
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Jun 8, 2017 12:52
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That's great news but let me post something snarky instead!
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Jun 8, 2017 12:59
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Binary Badger posted:Teardown of the 2017 21.5 inch iMac is up: This gives me feels. I'm not in the market for an iMac, but if eGPU works out this sounds like a machine that could still be fast when Trump leaves office in 2024.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:03
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Wow that is pretty big news. Awesome!
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Jun 8, 2017 14:05
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Krispy Kareem posted:This gives me feels. I'm not in the market for an iMac, but if eGPU works out this sounds like a machine that could still be fast when Trump leaves office in 2038. I've also heard (not verified) that it works as a TB3 display.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:25
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socketed CPU is awesome, can't wait to see what happens when some loon drops in a 6700.
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Jun 8, 2017 14:42
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well why not posted:That's great news but let me post something snarky instead! LMAO. Consumers are allowed to be down on Apple, who have disallowed user upgrades on almost every machine they've produced since 2012.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:57
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Binary Badger posted:Teardown of the 2017 21.5 inch iMac is up: wow this feels like a real loving blessing
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Jun 8, 2017 16:14
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Cingulate posted:I'd honestly be perfectly happy with that actually. If I can crunch some numbers (on the 13", mind you) on the train, while waiting at an airport, in flight, ... without, or much slower, draining power off of a really light charger (iPhone charger?????), that's a big gain. IMO, find a 3A charger of some kind if you want to try this at all https://www.anker.com/products/A2013112 the 13" full-size ac adapter supposedly has modes 20.3v/3a, 9v/3a, or 5.2v/2.4a so you might actually get real charging out of that Anker at 9v/2a, or at least much slower drain I don't know if that's too big to be valuable to you though. They also make a 60w USBC charger, which is pretty much the wattage of the apple charger https://www.anker.com/products/A2015111 emdash fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 16:18
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SourKraut posted:Your kit-bashed Mac Pro description is literally the current trashcan Mac Pro. People who want the "Mac Pro" want internal PCIe ports. At least one of them, ideally a couple. Plus expandable RAM, at least some option(s) for storage expansion, etc. No, it's more of a refinement of that idea. I agree that the trashcan Pro suffered from a lack of PCIe accessibility but it really flopped hard because of the GPUs/GPU form factor Apple decided to build it around. RAM has always been easily accessible in the trashcan, as has the M.2 stick (the thought was to let TB handle RAID/etc). The innards of the trashcan are, in some ways, more accessible than they are even on the cheese grater Pro. If Apple had decided to back the development of more GPUs in that form factor, maybe it wouldn't have flopped quite so quickly and decisively (it was still probably a dead end, given that the market has come to favor the 'one big card' approach to pro GPUs over 'two smaller cards'). Add in the fact that there wasn't really an ecosystem of TB2 peripherals and Apple didn't really do much to make one (probably because TB3+USB better reflected the original intent behind Thunderbolt being a universal connector). Presumably the idea now is that TB3 is a much more capable and mature interface than TB2 was, and it has a lot more support in the PC space and from Intel. Given what Apple has announced about eGPUs, it's not unrealistic to expect a similar development in external PCIe enclosures for those who need them. Hell, the current Razer Core has been shown to work with several different types of PCIe cards, including I/O and video decoding. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some more development on that front in the coming year or two with multi-card enclosures and whatnot. I'm not saying that I'm necessarily for it or against it. I just think that Apple has a history of looking at tech and design with a "long term" perspective and working towards an end ideal- often at the expense of making their users suffer through temporary and iterative "transitional fossils." Look back at the iMac since its debut and you can see design hallmarks evolve and change until the tech and aesthetics reach a point that Jony and co. like. And then they stay the same. Five years with the G3 design, and then it's mostly thrown out the window with the articulating G4, which only lasts two years. From the G5 on, so since 2005, Apple has pretty much stuck to the same basic idea WRT the iMac. It switched to aluminum with the MacBook/Macbook Pro in 2007/08, got an update to unibody in 2009, and then thinned out in 2012. Aside from materials and manufacture methods, the aesthetic changes haven't been nearly as radical- the plinth and basic forward profile have simply evolved since 2005. The same basic idea- an attractive computer that disappears behind its screen- has been there since 1998. They could've designed a different chassis for the iMac Pro but instead they redesigned the interior until they could cram a Xeon in there instead. The notebooks have been the same. When was that notch for lifting the display first introduced? 2006? Once the unibody design was established in 2008- black borders and keys, chamfered edges- we've been seeing revisions and refinements of it for a decade. The trashcan pro was built around a Thunderbolt-based approach to system expansion and everything Mac that Apple announced this week seemed to reflect an ongoing commitment to that idea. Don't be surprised if the next Mac Pro does as well. trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 18:46
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New MacBook Pro high-end config is an rear end-kicker, apparently: over 10% faster than last year
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Jun 8, 2017 21:08
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Binary Badger posted:Teardown of the 2017 21.5 inch iMac is up: Gonna buy one, excise the logic board and sell the rest for parts. I wonder if someone makes a breakout board for a PCI-E slot from a LGA.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:33
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Teardown of the 2017 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro is up. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Touch+Bar+2017+Teardown/92171 Parts supposedly not any different from the 2016 model except for the RAM and CPU/GPU, but they get the 2nd gen butterfly key tech that results in, I dunno, better tactile feedback? Looks like the storage is deffo soldered to the logic board on this model. In other news, I tried out the Kanex Thunderbolt-to-USB 3.0/SATA converter. Works pretty good, especially on the Mac Mini 2011 which has FW800, USB 2.0 (sad trumpet) and a single 10 GB Thunderbolt port. Used it to restore a big disk image fairly faster than the USB port, about 20 minutes to restore a 101 GB disk image. Only lovely part is that my newfangled BOOST 1 TB USB 3.1 SSD drive refuses to mount on it when it'll mount on any other internal USB port under the sun.
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Jun 9, 2017 00:39
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Electric Bugaloo posted:No, it's more of a refinement of that idea. I agree that the trashcan Pro suffered from a lack of PCIe accessibility but it really flopped hard because of the GPUs/GPU form factor Apple decided to build it around. RAM has always been easily accessible in the trashcan, as has the M.2 stick (the thought was to let TB handle RAID/etc). The innards of the trashcan are, in some ways, more accessible than they are even on the cheese grater Pro. If Apple had decided to back the development of more GPUs in that form factor, maybe it wouldn't have flopped quite so quickly and decisively (it was still probably a dead end, given that the market has come to favor the 'one big card' approach to pro GPUs over 'two smaller cards'). Add in the fact that there wasn't really an ecosystem of TB2 peripherals and Apple didn't really do much to make one (probably because TB3+USB better reflected the original intent behind Thunderbolt being a universal connector). They're definitely going to lean in on the TB3 thing, but they've also been taught a lesson on how quickly these things will actually change. They overestimated how 'passe' the PC itself was, and that raw power in a box is still a relevant area especially for media people. For the next Mac Pro, I'm really curious how much they'll thin it out. I mean it won't have a CD drive and traditional HDDs, but how will it deal with PCIe stuff? and GPUs? By giving up on them before they bought themselves a ton of design freedom, but I wonder now if they'll have to go back to a traditional box. I do hope it's still really quiet at least. IanTheM fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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Jun 9, 2017 01:01
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bobfather posted:LMAO. Consumers are allowed to be down on Apple, who have disallowed user upgrades on almost every machine they've produced since 2012. Tell me about it. I'm still holding onto my 2011 MBP 17" while waiting for Apple to release something similar (they won't).  I want to upgrade, but the MBP's are tiny and sealed shut now. Fanatic fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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Jun 9, 2017 02:49
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My 2011 MBP died so at least you have that. The 2015s aren't bad man. I like mine. You're still good for a while. Sure soldered ram and no extra storage slot and not 17 but you get used to it.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:53
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Bad: soldered RAM, no upgrades. Good: build quality of the loving gods. I'm still in awe of how this thing feels. My old MBP is a Dell compared to this.
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Jun 9, 2017 03:30
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So I'm throwing in the towel on my 2009 MBP 13". It owes me nothing, but is just too slow. I'm looking at a tricked out 15" MBP with a 1TB fusion drive. It looks like it should do the trick nicely. However, I need advice on what external monitor to get. I'm currently using a circa 2008 Apple LED Cinema Display (which still runs great...unbelievable considering its age). I'm looking at the LG 5K screens, which in Canada are ridiculously expensive, and have pretty lousy reviews. I'm using this machine primarily for writing and for remote-access VPN for scientific computing. Plus the usual web browsing, music, Netflix, whatever. Any suggestions about alternatives to the LG5K monitors?
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Jun 9, 2017 04:57
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Mandibular Fiasco posted:2008 Apple LED Cinema Display (which still runs great...unbelievable considering its age My parents used my 2002 Apple Cinema Display until earlier this year. That's almost 15 years of use. LCDs allowed Apple to finally make good monitors.
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Jun 9, 2017 04:59
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wdarkk posted:My parents used my 2002 Apple Cinema Display until earlier this year. That's almost 15 years of use. LCDs allowed Apple to finally make good monitors. I wouldn't mind continuing to use it, but the miniDP isn't on the new 15" MBPs and adapters seem a bit hit-and-miss as there's no official Apple adapter.
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Jun 9, 2017 05:18
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Mandibular Fiasco posted:So I'm throwing in the towel on my 2009 MBP 13". It owes me nothing, but is just too slow. I'm looking at a tricked out 15" MBP with a 1TB fusion drive. It looks like it should do the trick nicely. I had the LG5K. It was trash. I bought two Dell P2415Q's - both are 4K. There weren't any 5K monitors comparable in appearance to the LG5K so I just went for the two 4K.
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Jun 9, 2017 05:39
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Electric Bugaloo posted:No, it's more of a refinement of that idea. I agree that the trashcan Pro suffered from a lack of PCIe accessibility but it really flopped hard because of the GPUs/GPU form factor Apple decided to build it around. RAM has always been easily accessible in the trashcan, as has the M.2 stick (the thought was to let TB handle RAID/etc). The innards of the trashcan are, in some ways, more accessible than they are even on the cheese grater Pro. If Apple had decided to back the development of more GPUs in that form factor, maybe it wouldn't have flopped quite so quickly and decisively (it was still probably a dead end, given that the market has come to favor the 'one big card' approach to pro GPUs over 'two smaller cards'). I don't mean this to sound mean, but have you actually ever owned or worked on a classic Mac Pro? It's easier across the board to work in than the trashcan. One latch gives you complete exposure to everything internal - you can have the processor exposed within a couple of minutes, replace an optical drive within a couple of minutes, swap in RAM within about 10-15 seconds, 30 if you have a multi-socket system, etc. I literally just swapped out the PSU in mine and the entire process took about 10 minutes to do. It's big, it's heavy, it's cumbersome, but the Trashcan is inferior in every way from a maintenance perspective. And the "failure" to see development for a specialized GPU format falls solely on Apple: they're a big, mature company. They should be going to AMD and nVidia and asking what their 3- or 5-year plans are (or whatever) when it comes to GPU, because even in 2013, I bet both could have told Apple that the market was still trending back towards a single, more efficient large GPU. Apple was Apple and figured they'd get their way, and they didn't. They have literally no other product stack at the moment that would have used the GPU form factor used in the trashcan, so I don't really see any reasonable way to "back the development". Electric Bugaloo posted:Presumably the idea now is that TB3 is a much more capable and mature interface than TB2 was, and it has a lot more support in the PC space and from Intel. Given what Apple has announced about eGPUs, it's not unrealistic to expect a similar development in external PCIe enclosures for those who need them. Hell, the current Razer Core has been shown to work with several different types of PCIe cards, including I/O and video decoding. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some more development on that front in the coming year or two with multi-card enclosures and whatnot. Sure, but Firewire was similarly opened up, and never got beyond a niche market. The issue is that separate eGPUs, while making the likes of us on SA salivate, really are niche for the overall consumer market. So the hope is that you see it become a common feature in the markets that really drive the mass-market acceptance: developers, studios, engineering firms, etc. Where there could be some appeal to having an eGPU that someone could leave on their desk and connect a laptop to when they come in each day for work. It's possible and I'm sure it'll happen to some extent, but a lot of times the market(s) where an eGPU could see usage, probably still would prefer an actual workstation. Electric Bugaloo posted:I'm not saying that I'm necessarily for it or against it. I just think that Apple has a history of looking at tech and design with a "long term" perspective and working towards an end ideal- often at the expense of making their users suffer through temporary and iterative "transitional fossils." Look back at the iMac since its debut and you can see design hallmarks evolve and change until the tech and aesthetics reach a point that Jony and co. like. And then they stay the same. Apple has designed well in the last 10-15 years with respect to the consumer market; their professional hardware/software analysis has been... not so good. They dropped the ball with Final Cut Pro X initially. They dropped the ball with the Trashcan. So they haven't really done much to earn this faith you're putting in them with respect to the redesigned pro. The best we should do is be slightly optimistic about the comments they've made. And the G3 iMac and G4 iMac have nothing in common design-wise, so that's not really an evolution. If you count "has a screen and the computer is contained in a compact form" as evolution for the G4 iMac to the Unibody iMac, sure. But that's really pushing it. And yeah, in terms of notebooks, there has been consistent evolution. But the trashcan was a complete re-design that was flawed from the start. They could have shrunk the classic Mac Pro form factor down, provided a couple of PCIe for expansion, provide SATA III initially and in following years M.2 slots when transitioning, and TB ports. Instead... it was a bunch of TB ports, specialized GPUs that couldn't (effectively) be replaced, and limited expansion potential. Electric Bugaloo posted:The trashcan pro was built around a Thunderbolt-based approach to system expansion and everything Mac that Apple announced this week seemed to reflect an ongoing commitment to that idea. Don't be surprised if the next Mac Pro does as well. But they can provide TB-based expansion... by providing TB ports! Revolutionary, I know! It's almost like... magic. And they can still provide PCIe slots, M.2 and maybe some SATA III slots, etc. Offering TB ports does not negate the ability to provide other expansion options. The issue I think you either want to ignore or tap-dance around is that Apple is trying to fully divest itself of being a company that provides computer hardware that can be expanded or upgraded, because that disrupts consumer upgrade cycles which ultimately hits their financial interest. Look at people in this thread who are running 2009 - 2012 Mac Pros (and older) and have upgraded them extensively. That 5 - 8 years without Apple seeing an upgrade. And it'd be naive for anyone to think that someone in Apple isn't looking at/considering planned obsolescence. And Apple has mostly succeeded in their goal of eliminating upgradability, but they hit unexpected (at least to them) resistance from the one market they still want to operate in that has a majority of consumers wanting upgradeability/expandability and not sacrificing that for aesthetics/thinness/etc. Which is good, because Apple is a company and not some perfect being like some in this thread seem to view them as. So to wrap it up, do I think the new Mac Pro will have at least one PCIe port? Yes, because they know their market is interested in user-replaceable GPUs. Do I think it'll use industry standard interfaces, such as for storage and ports? Of course. Do I think it'll have a bunch of TB ports? Definitely. My hope is that when they said "modular", they meant the ability to change and adapt it per user preference, i.e. multiple PCIe ports for expansion depending on what the owner wants to do with it. My fear is that "modular" is them thinking of something like what I believe HP released with "stackable" boxes that expand the system, connecting via some type of specialized interface or via TB. We'll see, but I really hope it's the former so I can plop down money on Day One. Edit: IanTheM posted:They're definitely going to lean in on the TB3 thing, but they've also been taught a lesson on how quickly these things will actually change. They overestimated how 'passe' the PC itself was, and that raw power in a box is still a relevant area especially for media people. For the next Mac Pro, I'm really curious how much they'll thin it out. I mean it won't have a CD drive and traditional HDDs, but how will it deal with PCIe stuff? and GPUs? By giving up on them before they bought themselves a ton of design freedom, but I wonder now if they'll have to go back to a traditional box. I do hope it's still really quiet at least. Yeah, the superdrives are obviously gone - I'd imagine so is any reserved space for 3.5" HDDs, but I do think they'll provide at least one or two slots for 2.5" drives, figuring users can either put in large SSDs for storage or even larger 2.5" HDDs. The classic Mac Pro is large and takes up a lot of space, but it's surprisingly quiet. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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