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DalaranJ posted:The only person Sojiro was close enough to respond to such a request would have been Wakaba. Which is an interesting theory, but I don't think there's any in game support for it. Wakaba died well before your incident. More likely it came up in conversation with one of his regulars. We know he doesn't have many and he's pretty close to them considering how small his cafe is.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:00
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DalaranJ posted:The only person Sojiro was close enough to respond to such a request would have been Wakaba. Which is an interesting theory, but I don't think there's any in game support for it. Wakaba dies 1.5-2 years before the beginning of the game if I'm remembering properly.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:01
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It probably helped that he could recognize the signs of somebody being screwed over by Shido and was thus more inclined to help you out. For even when he was at his most assholeish to you he readily accepted your side of the events as the truth.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:04
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Sojiro just has a rusty old heart of gold.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:07
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dragon_pamcake posted:Except during the horrible villain exposition, Akechi said he initially made Shido's enemies go psychotic, not dead. When Shido says he "taught Akechi how to use his power properly" he means taught Akechi to murder people. Shido then goes on to say he knew Akechi was a stupid kid that just wanted love and attention and used it to play him like a fiddle. the problem with this is that he was making people go psychotic to kill shido's targets. the subway accident that had like 70+ causalities? goro making someone go psycho. just because he wasn't straight up blatting people before hand doesn't mean that he wasn't causing deaths before that poo poo, and then profiting on it by capturing the "murderers". if goro hadn't of been murdering/psychoing dudes and shido blackmailed him into doing them, than yeah, totally coercion. but goro literally going "I can help get rid of your political rivals by setting up "accidents" to take them out." is not coercion. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 15:07
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SpazmasterX posted:Wakaba dies 1.5-2 years before the beginning of the game if I'm remembering properly. That doesn't mean your parents didn't know her. That just means that it would have been a direct conversation, rather than an indirect one. Or does he say "I heard about you from" Rather than "We have a mutual acquaintance?"
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Jun 8, 2017 15:09
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Sojiro says that a frequent customer of his knows your parents and that's how he learned of the whole thingRoobanguy posted:the problem with this is that he was making people go psychotic to kill shido's targets. the subway accident that had like 70+ causalities? goro making someone go psycho. just because he wasn't straight up blatting people before hand doesn't mean that he wasn't causing deaths before that poo poo, and then profiting on it by capturing the "murderers".
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Jun 8, 2017 15:13
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Moltrey posted:Sojiro says that a frequent customer of his knows your parents and that's how he learned of the whole thing i remember one of the news reports saying over 70 casualties, but its been like a month and a half since i've played this game and it was probably in the first few hours at that. but seeing as how the whole thing was to kill a politician that was inconvenient for shido, at least 1 person died in it.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:15
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It's just kinda weird that a frequent customer was able to talk him into taking a kid in and then you never see that customer (or do you??  it's that lovely critic).Roobanguy posted:i remember one of the news reports saying over 70 casualties, but its been like a month and a half since i've played this game and it was probably in the first few hours at that. but seeing as how the whole thing was to kill a politician that was inconvenient for shido, at least 1 person died in it. I thought they specifically mention no one died at least initially.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:17
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Roobanguy posted:i remember one of the news reports saying over 70 casualties, but its been like a month and a half since i've played this game and it was probably in the first few hours at that. but seeing as how the whole thing was to kill a politician that was inconvenient for shido, at least 1 person died in it. That's not why he caused the crash.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:17
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Yeah the crash was to cause distrust in the Department of Transportation and by extension the government who had like signed off on a safety check of that railway recently or some poo poo. I dunno one of Shido's contracts that he had Goro on the case for.
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Jun 8, 2017 15:19
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Oxxidation posted:That's not why he caused the crash. actually the game seems to back up what i was saying? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxwZ-RmtMng&t=579s according to that dude, it was a hit to kill a preisdent of a company and a diplomat. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 15:20
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Does Joker need his glasses (and there was a design disconnect with the animation team, which I wouldn't be surprised by), or are the glasses simply an extension of the "masks" theme?
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Jun 8, 2017 16:12
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DalaranJ posted:Does Joker need his glasses (and there was a design disconnect with the animation team, which I wouldn't be surprised by), or are the glasses simply an extension of the "masks" theme? The glasses are fake.
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Jun 8, 2017 16:13
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Roobanguy posted:
I don't know, when I saw that scene I interpreted it as he wanted to kill their careers? Like Ooe is a politician himself, if he could make a rival and their pet company look completely incompetent that's even better than taking them out physically because it kills any support they might have had as well. If someone dies then they might have allies who would keep supporting what they were doing even on unrelated subjects, but a completely discredited politician? We saw what goes on there with our great friend So-Good-Tora.
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Jun 8, 2017 16:50
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Oxxidation posted:I mean, we literally spent hours traipsing through Shido's heart and it definitively concludes that the man has zero redeeming factors, his entire guiding philosophy is "gently caress everyone who isn't me and people I can manipulate." Giving the incredibly shallow villain more screentime would irritate more than humanize. I think that depends on the content of that screentime. Shido seems to be middle aged, so his road to get to where he is could be a long one. Imagine if in that giant palace of his we had found a dusty storage room full of old ideals. In it we learn that he used to have all kinds of great, well-thought out ideas for how to improve the country. But with each ideal we find a note that says something like "x special interest has a stranglehold on y committee, so this will never go forward." Over time he grew to learn that if you can't frame a policy in a way that benefits corrupt interests, you will never achieve it, and public appeals will never work. He grew to despise the public for their apathy, and the government and businesses for their self-serving corruption. And there was nothing he could do about it. At that time, he was like an ensign on the ship of state, but he was determined to someday be captain. This was the origin of his belief that only he was capable of leading the country into the future. But in order to do that, he had to play the game, and play it so effectively that there couldn't be anyone but him at the top. At first he was just an incidental player, helping move corruption along simply to gain influence, maybe engaging in a bit of blackmail, or conspiring with criminals like Madarame for funds. All the while looking for an opportunity to take real control. He finally got that with Akechi and Wakaba Isshiki. By his way of thinking, this was the best chance he would ever have. He had to do whatever it took to establish his dominance with them. And if using supernatural means meant that only a small number of people had to be removed from the picture to erase any evidence of his wrongdoing, all the better. How interesting it would have been, if the Phantom Thieves had started to wonder if Shido would have made a pretty good Prime Minister after his change of heart. And then imagine Shido's shadow having to convince them that that would never happen, and anyway he wouldn't want it to, because he was too old and tired to find his idealism again. His actual shadow in the game has some shades of that after you beat him. And furthermore, what if he told them that they would have to steer the country now, because after he confessed he knew there would be riots in the streets after this betrayal of public confidence after a whole year of such betrayals from every direction. Now that would have been interesting.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:12
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Montegoraon posted:Imagine No, because it didn't happen. There's a lot of discourse around Akechi because his character arc is undercooked and there's a bunch of stuff about his circumstances re: Shido, Yaldabaoth, and his lovely childhood that provide adequate fuel for speculation, but with Shido himself there's nothing. He's a compulsively backstabbing cartoon of a man. Sojiro is the only one who gives us a glimpse of his past before he rose to prominence and it's a resounding "oh my God, this loving guy." Even his Treasure is solely related to his megalomania. The real answer is that he was meant to be symbolic of the selfish and corrupting nature of society and Atlus apparently thought that making him an actual character on top of it would muddy that symbolism. They might have been right, because ultimately the real threat isn't Shido himself but the rot he inflicts on society with his conspiracy, but he's still an awful villain.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:20
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I was actually expecting some sexual imagery in shido's palace myself given that his very first appearance in the game is trying to rape someone, but the game kind of left that angle behind. I felt like the game left behind quite a few character details in the end actually.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:22
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This Goro discourse really makes it clear who watched/read Death Note and came away thinking Light was the good guy.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:26
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Ometeotl posted:This Goro discourse really makes it clear who watched/read Death Note and came away thinking Light was the good guy. L supremacy
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Jun 8, 2017 18:28
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Oxxidation posted:No, because it didn't happen. So, your original comment was that there would be no point in giving Shido more screentime because he's shallow, and I responding by pointing out how more screentime might have fleshed him out without contradicting what we saw, and you respond back by saying, what, that kind of speculation is pointless because it wasn't in the game? I was writing about unrealized potential in the game. Montegoraon fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 18:37
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Ometeotl posted:This Goro discourse really makes it clear who watched/read Death Note and came away thinking Light was the good guy.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:42
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Digirat posted:I was actually expecting some sexual imagery in shido's palace myself given that his very first appearance in the game is trying to rape someone, but the game kind of left that angle behind. I felt like the game left behind quite a few character details in the end actually. Honestly, it's more about power for Shido rather than fulfilling a sexual appetite and his palace delivers on that in spades.
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Jun 8, 2017 19:23
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It was a great palace thematically but gently caress mouse mazes
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Jun 8, 2017 19:27
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I thought it started really strong but overstayed its welcome by quite literally about 3 hours
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Jun 8, 2017 19:46
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Ometeotl posted:This Goro discourse really makes it clear who watched/read Death Note and came away thinking Light was the good guy. I read the complete manga and I wish I could have all my time back. The best moments were with L and then it went downhill from there. It's a shame since the manga-ka is a talented artist just his writing half is bad.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:11
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Alder posted:I read the complete manga and I wish I could have all my time back. The best moments were with L and then it went downhill from there. It's a shame since the manga-ka is a talented artist just his writing half is bad. You can tell his writing's a bit inconsistent when he had to kill off the FBI investigator's wife really quickly, because he wrote her 'too well' and she basically would've cracked the case long before anyone else did.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:16
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LuiCypher posted:You can tell his writing's a bit inconsistent when he had to kill off the FBI investigator's wife really quickly, because he wrote her 'too well' and she basically would've cracked the case long before anyone else did. She was the best minor character too  The author really wrote mediocre female characters for the other chapters.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:31
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Alder posted:She was the best minor character too tsugumi ohba seemed to have some capital-I Issues with writing women in general, even compared to other mangaka
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Jun 8, 2017 21:35
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Part of the reason why the story drags so badly after L dies is because the mangaka wanted the story to be exactly 108 chapters because  SYMBOLISM so a lot of the later chapters really are just padding for the sake of making sure he hit his target.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:33
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Ometeotl posted:This Goro discourse really makes it clear who watched/read Death Note and came away thinking Light was the good guy. tbf I don't see as many people arguing that Goro is a good guy. Just that he's sympathetic. And i've never seen anyone argue Light was sympathetic exactly, just that he was completely right and the hero.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:36
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Moltrey posted:The truth of it is that since Shido doesn't have a sad backstory and Goro does, that level of Equal Crime just doesn't exist much. Goro is a teenager and was never properly socialized, of course he would use others to bring himself up. After a life with no one in the world in your corner, you'll take any chance to get ahead. Shido is pretty unique in his situation. He is as young as they get politician wise by gettimg the Diet Pin at a young age. He has to face his own group of adults aka the crusty LDP who had a stranglehold over Japanese Politics irl. He has to play hard or end up disgrace or worse dead by conventional means.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:50
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SyntheticPolygon posted:tbf I don't see as many people arguing that Goro is a good guy. Just that he's sympathetic. And i've never seen anyone argue Light was sympathetic exactly, just that he was completely right and the hero. Nah, Light was always 100% crazy from the moment he got the Death Note. There was no real moment the reader felt "he has a good point" instead of "power corrupts all esp egomaniacs."
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Jun 9, 2017 00:02
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Alder posted:Nah, Light was always 100% crazy from the moment he got the Death Note. There was no real moment the reader felt "he has a good point" instead of "power corrupts all esp egomaniacs." I didn't mean to say he was ever portrayed as correct, just that lots of fans think he was on the right track.
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Jun 9, 2017 00:05
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gyrobot posted:Shido is pretty unique in his situation. He is as young as they get politician wise by gettimg the Diet Pin at a young age. He has to face his own group of adults aka the crusty LDP who had a stranglehold over Japanese Politics irl. He has to play hard or end up disgrace or worse dead by conventional means. he's just a walking political cartoon, complete with lengthy evil rant about his plans on an unsecured line to someone who should already know what he's talking about and hack scriptwriting 101 "how to make someone unlikable" moves like an attempted rape that doesn't actually pan out and bad etiquette when it comes to moving in public places
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Jun 9, 2017 00:42
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Alder posted:It's a shame since the manga-ka is a talented artist just his writing half is bad. goth straps and buckles are 100% his fuckin blood and there's a reason Death Note character designs kinda go off the rails at times
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Jun 9, 2017 00:52
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Moltrey posted:the artist went on to do character designs for modern castlevania games and you can absolutely tell. It was just for Castlevania Judgment, and no one liked those designs.
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Jun 9, 2017 00:58
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W.T. Fits posted:Part of the reason why the story drags so badly after L dies is because the mangaka wanted the story to be exactly 108 chapters because
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Jun 9, 2017 00:59
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there are way too many answers to that question, it's a hinduisim and buddhism thingChaosArgate posted:It was just for Castlevania Judgment, and no one liked those designs. e: one of my earliest experiences with anime was my friend showing me death note and bleach. the first episode of death note i swa was the one where light spends way too long running through scenarios of how cool and good his trick drawer was and so for a while i thought anime was just convoluted and stupid, but i guess i wasnt wrong
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Jun 9, 2017 01:01
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Pierson posted:What was symbolic about it? I stopped reading DN pretty much the second L died, but watch out Light here are two sassy young detectives after your rear end! Didn't grab me as much. 108 is the number of earthly temptations that must be overcome to reach Nirvana, the Japanese adore it
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Jun 9, 2017 01:06
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