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Conspiratiorist posted:Yes, it's quite telling when the only significant positive news in months is that the rest of the world remains committed to the Paris Accord despite the US leaving it. The impacts of climate change and our adaptation to and mitigation of climate change will be slow and won't be showy. Just like we can't point and say "look at climate change attacking your house" we won't be able to say "yay the cops shot climate change" either. For a historical example, LA air quality improvements have taken decades and for years after the "right thing was done" no results were felt. You still got smog breath well into the 90s. The expensive Californian gas and strict smog rules were mocked endlessly before positive results could be confirmed. You can't always see the summit from the trail. Even if the world got together and passed the *perfect* treaty tomorrow, ppm will continue to rise for years to come. The best courses of action won't be visible as "good news" until decades into them.
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Jun 6, 2017 07:03
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You missed the point. It wasn't an argument about the effectiveness of the PA, but the fact that the only cause for celebration we have had recently is it didn't catch AIDS after being raped in the rear end by Uncle Sam. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 07:09
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Conspiratiorist posted:You missed the point. So in your metaphor, that's mitigation.  Right and I'm saying, get used to the little victories as we're effectively in an abusive relationship and we can't leave because of the kids. Besides this thread isn't about optimism. Lol at trying to get this crowd to take the kinds of marginal good news seriously. A new clean power plant? Improved effiency in a core economic process? Communities taking their own future in their hands? "Bah! None of that is sufficient alone and thus is meaningless"
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Jun 6, 2017 07:20
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I am very grateful that I am alive when I am and where I am. I don't see widescale, massive efforts to end carbon emissions until some sudden and catastrophic event happens that can be pointed to as climate change. It's not enough that droughts in a round about way cause war in Syria or death in Africa, a loving city has to be fine one day and under water the next. That's what it would take for the population to understand that this problem should take precedence over literally any other issue.
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Jun 6, 2017 08:29
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Burt Buckle posted:I am very grateful that I am alive when I am and where I am. I don't see widescale, massive efforts to end carbon emissions until some sudden and catastrophic event happens that can be pointed to as climate change. It's not enough that droughts in a round about way cause war in Syria or death in Africa, a loving city has to be fine one day and under water the next. That's what it would take for the population to understand that this problem should take precedence over literally any other issue. Yeah, same. I'm hoping for the next Katrina-level disaster, preferably in Florida, or Houston if we're really lucky.
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Jun 6, 2017 09:00
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That'd just be punishment for not being pious enough.
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Jun 6, 2017 09:04
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You're not thinking wild enough. DC getting stomped on would certainly send a message. It won't affect the piss babies who work there (they'll go home) but drat if that's not a metaphor.
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Jun 6, 2017 09:09
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MiddleOne posted:You know the real world already tried this and it led us to today. ..... gently caress.
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Jun 6, 2017 13:24
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I don't give a gently caress that people are "scared" by the reality of climate change, it's loving reality and denying such lead us to the morally, politically, and spiritually degenerate place we are today. I literally despise people who whitewash terror in order to not offend fat retards. I saw this at the Monterey Bay Aquarium a few weeks ago - it used to have an exhibit that terrified me as a child, where a pound of cooked shrimp were surrounded by hundreds of pounds of exotic animals that were killed to get it. That was 15+ years ago and I still think about it. Now, though? No such exhibit. Climate change is mentioned, but only on the boring signs that nobody reads - what they should do is force you through a gallery of what's happening today and what WILL happen tomorrow and not let you leave 'til you experience it. If you can't handle the reality of climate change, you're no better than some dumbass Trump voter who can't handle the reality of racism or sexism or any of that poo poo. It's time to stop catering to dumbass cattle who wouldn't lift a finger to help another and start showing them their doomed future. Disgusting revisionists like the folks in this thread would whitewash the Holocaust Museum if it meant not having their precious feelings offended. We need a loving glass case of the loving shoes of Indonesian and Bangladeshi kids who have already been killed by this poo poo. And the rest of you need to learn about the scale of the problem, where some new clean power plant doesn't mean loving poo poo when India is still building coal at full tilt. call to action fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 14:32
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call to action posted:I don't give a gently caress that people are "scared" by the reality of climate change, it's loving reality and denying such lead us to the morally, politically, and spiritually degenerate place we are today. good username/post combo
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Jun 6, 2017 17:13
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The answer is anarcho-primitivism. Murder anyone that uses any technology newer than the neolithic. Correction: the neolithic led to this global crisis. Just kill everyone in sight until someone manages to take you out. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 6, 2017 17:42
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We all know that fear is a poor motivator, but what are we supposed to do with that information? The range of likely consequences from climate change doesn't include "everything will be fine," even at the relatively optimistic end of the scale, so how do you have an honest discussion about the topic without it sounding like fear mongering? You guys are literally complaining that reality is too depressing for many people, which doesn't exactly suggest a way forward. edit- Like, my takeaway from these conversations always boils down to two points: 1) We can't talk about the science because it leads to scary conclusions which paralyze people into inaction. 2) We can't talk about solutions that require major social/economic/political changes because those are hard and people aren't concerned enough to make difficult sacrifices. So where does that leave us? The implication seems to be that nothing is worth discussing except for small, personal changes that aren't likely to add up to much without larger scale political changes that people are unlikely to support. But also we can't discuss the realistic impact of those changes, because people don't want to hear that their personal consumption habits actually don't matter all that much. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 18:32
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The growth of wind power in Texas gives me some hope for this dumbass state. Maybe we can set a trend in Texas barbecue from beef to pork and chicken. Pork ribs are the superior ribs. Promoting pork over beef is the sort of activism normals can get behind (while we replace coal and gas with wind). Deadly Ham Sandwich fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 18:34
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Paradoxish posted:We all know that fear is a poor motivator, but what are we supposed to do with that information? The range of likely consequences from climate change doesn't include "everything will be fine," even at the relatively optimistic end of the scale, so how do you have an honest discussion about the topic without it sounding like fear mongering? You guys are literally complaining that reality is too depressing for many people, which doesn't exactly suggest a way forward. Stop focusing entirely on the impacts and focus on mitigating, adapting and increasing the speed of transfer to a carbon negative economy. The impacts of climate change are both unimaginablely horrible and remote enough to not motivate. If we are on track for RCP 8.5 or RCP 6 or RCP 4.5 doesn't really change our best course of action now. The issue is focusing the dialogue on "too many will die and we can't save them all" which is true, but irrelevant to the larger task of saving as many as we can. We can talk about the science and solutions that help us mitigate, adapt and transition to a negative carbon economy in ways that are both marginal and revolutionary, but in recognition that even a perfect solution still ends with very imperfect outcomes. When a solution is proposed or a topic discussed we all would do better to try and "yes and" rather than "no but" something that is marginally impactful but not sufficient. Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The growth of wind power in Texas gives me some hope for this dumbass state. Likewise the recent success of SolarReserve makes me hopeful that we will continue building CSP with overnight production which will allow solar to operate as baseload. They're trying to permit a 2GW CSP site with full load overnight storage in Nevada. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 19:01
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I honestly don't see a path forward. Can one of you optimists try and paint a path from here to say 2200 that isn't just directly projected out lines until breaking points are reached? Like how do we effect a global <2 child policy peacefully within the next generation or two?
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Jun 6, 2017 21:20
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No one can predict out to 2200 with any semblance of scientific backing.
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Jun 6, 2017 21:31
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StabbinHobo posted:I honestly don't see a path forward. Can one of you optimists try and paint a path from here to say 2200 that isn't just directly projected out lines until breaking points are reached? 2200? Sure, economic growth continues to raise living standards till population levels off and begins to decline before 2100. Incremental gains in solar, wind and biological source productivity begin to outpace fossil fuel costs as easy grab fracking sources run out. A bunch of poor people die but civilization carries on and by 2200 we've got floating fusion syngas derricks outputting millions of barrels of carbon neutral liquid fuels a day.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:31
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The growth of wind power in Texas gives me some hope for this dumbass state. gently caress off. Leave my beef alone.
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Jun 6, 2017 22:44
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StabbinHobo posted:I honestly don't see a path forward. Can one of you optimists try and paint a path from here to say 2200 that isn't just directly projected out lines until breaking points are reached? Things will get worse then stay that way. The optimists mainly just want the depressives to stop bitching and moaning about mitigation and adaptation.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:04
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This is an interesting (depressing) thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/miami/2764346-mb-streets-get-flooded-due-rain.html
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Jun 6, 2017 23:35
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Trabisnikof posted:We can talk about the science and solutions that help us mitigate, adapt and transition to a negative carbon economy in ways that are both marginal and revolutionary, but in recognition that even a perfect solution still ends with very imperfect outcomes. When a solution is proposed or a topic discussed we all would do better to try and "yes and" rather than "no but" something that is marginally impactful but not sufficient. Okay, but this isn't all that much different from how this thread usually goes. There are a few notable depressives who post here, but hardly anyone actually shits on incremental progress. The problem usually comes up with topics like CCS, where the current prototypes are so wildly off in scale and economically nonviable that we might as well be talking about leaving egg shells on your back porch. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 23:50
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Paradoxish posted:we might as well be talking about leaving egg shells on your back porch. This will help? Because this is something I could get behind!
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Jun 7, 2017 02:41
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I saw a monarch butterfly today.
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Jun 7, 2017 07:54
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Arglebargle III posted:I saw a monarch butterfly today. Watch that motherfucker start a storm.
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Jun 7, 2017 09:04
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double nine posted:Watch that motherfucker start a storm. nice
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Jun 7, 2017 10:13
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The whole idea that fear is a poor motivator doesn't really mean too much in the context of the forums. Anybody here that is actually trying to make a difference in their communities will not be a sad sack of poo poo when interacting with real people. If you are, give your a head a shake. People really need to stop discussing this as a technological problem. Jesus christ. We have all the tools necessary to stop climate change. We just don't have the political power to do so. And we will never have until there is complete shift in society's structure. Solving climate change means a lot of incredibly wealthy people voluntarily giving up their power and capital. That just isn't going to happen. It never has happened, and it never will happen. The solution to climate change is easy. End capitalism.
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Jun 7, 2017 13:52
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turning off civilization would result in at least another degree of heating, so i don't know if "solution" is the right word
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Jun 7, 2017 14:01
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Arglebargle III posted:I saw a monarch butterfly today. : \ Remember when that would be a weird thing to say because of course you saw a butterfly, they're everywhere?
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Jun 7, 2017 14:05
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NewForumSoftware posted:turning off civilization would result in at least another degree of heating, so i don't know if "solution" is the right word How about if we burn civilization?
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Jun 7, 2017 14:10
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MiddleOne posted:How about if we burn civilization?
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Jun 7, 2017 14:34
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NewForumSoftware posted:turning off civilization would result in at least another degree of heating, so i don't know if "solution" is the right word 99.9% of known civilization existed before our current ultra-hosed-up interpretation of capitalism, and it will exist after it has gone away, however it will almost certainly not continue to exist if we keep with this cancerous socioeconomic system.
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Jun 7, 2017 15:31
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Hot Take, circa 1912:
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Jun 8, 2017 16:17
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Accretionist posted:Hot Take, circa 1912: 
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Jun 8, 2017 16:18
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I was sure that article was fake, but apparently, it's real
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Jun 8, 2017 16:28
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It wasn't exactly news even then:
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Jun 8, 2017 16:44
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Since this thread likes to discuss what can and cannot be reasonably done, there may be some interest in the ranked list of solutions assembled by Paul Hawken for his book "Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming": http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank
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Jun 8, 2017 21:56
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Rastor posted:Since this thread likes to discuss what can and cannot be reasonably done, there may be some interest in the ranked list of solutions assembled by Paul Hawken for his book "Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming": This is really great! 
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Jun 8, 2017 23:25
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Those GT of CO2-equivalent reductions are just estimates for implementation only in the US, right?
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Jun 9, 2017 00:09
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Hello Sailor posted:Those GT of CO2-equivalent reductions are just estimates for implementation only in the US, right? Pretty sure "tropical forests" aren't able to be implemented in the US on any meaningful scale.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:10
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Rime posted:This is really great! Apparently educating girls is free. Also so is refrigeratorant management. I also don't know what that involves. I think there are going to be severe issues with their methodologies, if they exist anywhere.
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Jun 9, 2017 03:41
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