|
Because a Razorback dies to two Meltas and a Devastator squad takes six.
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:34 |
|
|
My Tyranid friend (who doesn't post here) has the following questions about Tyranids in 8th edition: - Are the venom cannon and/or heavy venom cannon useless? - What is the best warrior layout, shooting-focused or melee-focused or all-purpose or what? - Is an army based off warriors (with a Tyranid prime) and carnifexes (with Old One Eye) viable? He hates genestealers with a passion and refuses to use them or anything involving them. Strongly dislikes gaunts of any variety. Also, he doesn't like to use the really giant monsters, like anything bigger than a carnifex. He might bend on a hive tyrant, but he really, really likes warriors the most and wants a Tyranid prime HQ. Would consider using flying units. Loves ripper swarms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
goose willis posted:My Tyranid friend (who doesn't post here) has the following questions about Tyranids in 8th edition: I think dual Heavy Venom Cannons on the Harpy looks pretty decent now, but I haven't had a chance to actually test it yet. Tyranid Warriors are pretty cool with dual Boneswords and Devourers. They can do a little bit of everything and are still pretty cheap. Plus, the Prime buffs both their shooting AND melee hit rolls. That's all I really know for now though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
Master Twig posted:So, I had completely overlooked Monstrous Rending Claws on Hive Tyrants. goose willis posted:My Tyranid friend (who doesn't post here) has the following questions about Tyranids in 8th edition: It's a bit early to say, but Warriors seem to be a decent generalist unit. Not the best option for shooting, nor the best for melee, but capable at both. It's only 32pts each for both Deathspitters & Boneswords now, compared to 47pts in 7E. A regular VC on Warriors could be handy, especially with the new split fire rule and a nearby Prime for BS3+. A large brood will put out quite a few S8 shots with them. Also you can now put a full 9-Warrior brood in a pod or reliably in a Trygon Tunnel, which is a pretty meaty unit to drop in an opponent's backfield.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
Barbed Stranglers did good work for me in my last game. D6 attacks is swingy, sure, but if you bring two you can delete infantry with really good range. S5 AP -1 is good poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:01
|
|
|
Strobe posted:Because a Razorback dies to two Meltas and a Devastator squad takes six. poo poo that kills marines fast is more common than poo poo that kills a t7 w10 model quick Sure if both meltas hit, wound, and spike damage it can do the job but also one battle cannon shell could wipe all 5 devastators.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
Only just now took a look at Grey Knights rules. The psycannon is a bit poo poo now, but on the plus side psychic rhinos are back so a lot is forgiven.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
goose willis posted:My Tyranid friend (who doesn't post here) has the following questions about Tyranids in 8th edition: Venom cannon over barbed strangler for days. Hitting at S8 is pretty good in general. I rate the stranglethorn over the heavy venom cannon, the difference in strength isn't as great and you will melt guys. Old one eye is good and makes carnifex scary, warriors are decent since no insta-kill and armor 4+ isn't as bad. A shootie unit of 6 warriors with 2 venom cannons and deathspitters near a tyranid prime is decent enough against light vehicles while still dealing a decent melee punch. With the way that tyranid weapons now work, being mixed is best. Though who knows when the actual codex comes out for them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:15
|
|
|
Hopefully you guys can help clarify something for me. When playing with points, you only pay for wargear options, right? You don't have to pay for the weapons and equipment the models come with? So the follow-up question becomes, are there no longer ANY free wargear swaps anywhere (unless specifically called out, which I haven't seen yet)? Cheers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
WhiteWolf123 posted:Hopefully you guys can help clarify something for me. You have to pay for all the weapons they carry, even if they're "default".
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
RagnarokAngel posted:You have to pay for all the weapons they carry, even if they're "default".  Oh. Well that both simplifies things and makes them far more complicated. So are there some options that make models cheaper than their stock loadouts?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:23
|
|
|
Though you don't have to pay for gear if you replace it for something else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:24
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:Though you don't have to pay for gear if you replace it for something else. Ok cool. Thanks for clarifying. I assume you HAVE to at least give them all their "default" equipment though? Like, I can't choose to not pay for a piece of default wargear just to save on points?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
Most default wargear is 0 points for basic units.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
Strobe posted:Most default wargear is 0 points for basic units. Ah, that's cool then. Cheers. .......... Okay, so what about power rating instead of points? Are legal upgrades (that don't specify a power rating increase, like jump packs and extra models) "free" to take for those kinds of games? Like, can I upgrade my Tac Squads with a special & heavy weapon without having to pay more power, regardless of what those upgrades were? WhiteWolf123 fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jun 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Most. Not all. Boltguns, Bolt Pistols, and Chainswords are 0 points (for example), but an Inceptor's Assault Bolter is like 7 each (numbers not exact) despite being basic wargear for them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
Strobe posted:Most. Not all. Boltguns, Bolt Pistols, and Chainswords are 0 points (for example), but an Inceptor's Assault Bolter is like 7 each (numbers not exact) despite being basic wargear for them. I'll watch for that, thanks. How about the follow-up question regarding playing for power rating instead of points?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:34
|
|
|
Upgrades that don't come bundled with extra Power are free, yes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
Basic in this context means the army's basic weapons. For Space Marines these are Bolter, bolt pistols, chainswords. For the guard it's lasguns etc. The assault Bolter is much too strong to be free.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
Strobe posted:Most. Not all. Boltguns, Bolt Pistols, and Chainswords are 0 points (for example), but an Inceptor's Assault Bolter is like 7 each (numbers not exact) despite being basic wargear for them. Is there a reason assault bolters are different in the Index than they are in the Dark Imperium box? I want them to be reasonably costed 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
I'm thinking about buying the first Triumvirate box. How fiddly is Celestine to put together?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:36
|
|
|
So, on the 24th, one of my local stores is having a 1,500 point 8th edition starter tournament. I plan to bring the following: Hive Tyrant - Wings - 2 Deathspitters - Monstrous Rending Claws Hive Tyrant - Wings - 2 Deathspitters - Monstrous Rending Claws Termagant Brood - 10 termagants Termagant Brood - 10 termagants Termagant Brood - 20 termagants - 20 devourers Termagant Brood - 20 termagants - 20 devourers Warrior Brood - 5 warriors - 5 scything Talons - 5 boneswords - 5 adrenal glands Mucolid Spore Mucolid Spore Trygon - Adrenal Glands Trygon - Adrenal Glands Trygon - Adrenal Glands Comes to 1498. 6 units on the board. 6 underground to deep strike. (Mucolid Spores DO have a use) Am I a bad person? Master Twig fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jun 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
Master Twig posted:Am I a bad person? Hell no. This rules. Give em the bees
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Yeah I'll see what my points let me do, that'd cost another 60 points. Missiles are expensive. So looking things over I have a few thoughts: 1. I think a Force Sword is better than a Force Stave. Both do D3 wounds, but the Sword has a -3 AP modifier. Against most characters the Sword will be better. I could see the Force Axe being a compromise that lets you wound T8 models on a 5+ while still getting -2 AP. 2. I'd like to see some more mobility in your Captain. Maybe a bike or jump pack to let him really take advantage of positioning that aura. 3. To be honest I don't see much that makes the Terminator Librarian worth 161 points. I think the Chaplain would be better given his aura ability. 4. I don't like how disjointed your weapon choices are, particularly the second tactical squad. Is the idea that the combi-flamer is for overwatch? Do you expect those squads to see combat, or would they be better off focusing on weapons that complement each other better? 5. I don't like the small squads. I'm assuming the Jump Pack Vanguard is five models; if so I think those points would be better off bolstering the Cataphractii, who will likely be isolated. 6. I might be inclined to see if I could fit a Land Raider in there, as they look insanely tough and capable. A LR with a multi-melta is 366 points, and you can use it to transport something else in extreme protection. chutche2 posted:poo poo that kills marines fast is more common than poo poo that kills a t7 w10 model quick I think it's going to be a question of meta. T7 means that S4 stuff can wound it on a 5+. T7 also seems to be the standard toughness for most vehicles, with heavy stuff being T8. A Predator with 4 Lascannons is also 202 points whereas the devastator squad is only 165, and the devastator squad is more likely to be able to take cover.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 01:41
|
|
|
WhiteWolf123 posted:Ah, that's cool then. Cheers. Power takes Wargear upgrades into account for its scoring. So you don't have to worry about paying extra power for it. it should only increase when you add models to the unit. Endman posted:I'm thinking about buying the first Triumvirate box. I would more about Cawl then Celestine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
Yeah force stave isn't the best choice, this is just an old rear end metal model that only has that as an option. I only have the two hq choices until I get vaylund cals rules. I'll get a chaplain eventually. The librarian definitely hasn't been worth the points, if it was still 100 to 120 then maybe. One advantage with the stave though is that with might of heroes it's wounding tyranid MCs on a 3+. Hadn't thought about putting a jump pack on my captain, should work. I only have the 5 cataphactiis, wasn't planning on getting more. I could see if my opponents will let me use my gorgons to proxy them. Dropping the vanguard is only like 130 points though, that's 2 terminators and some change. The combi flamers are because I expect to see a lot of orks, tyranids, and guard. Holding off on buying a land raider until I see what a spartan costs pointswise 4 lascannom devastators is definitely cheaper than a predator but I was talking about the heavy bolter ones which are straight up worse than a razorback The gravgun + missile guys are going to be combat squadded most of the time, the plasmagun + plasma cannon one is hanging around my captain for rerolls. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jun 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
Rulebook Heavily posted:Only just now took a look at Grey Knights rules. The psycannon is a bit poo poo now, but on the plus side psychic rhinos are back so a lot is forgiven. A little miffed that Purifiers seem to have lost an attack though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 02:45
|
|
|
Der Waffle Mous posted:A little miffed that Purifiers seem to have lost an attack though. Yeah I don't see a point to them anymore. Even with a commander nearby to double the range of their Smite, that's still just a 6" aura of damage. That's not worth the investment.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 02:51
|
|
|
goose willis posted:My Tyranid friend (who doesn't post here) has the following questions about Tyranids in 8th edition: The answer to these questions really depends upon the meta for 8th which we don't really know yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
Master Twig posted:So, on the 24th, one of my local stores is having a 1,500 point 8th edition starter tournament. I plan to bring the following: Very very nice. I love the 3 Trygons. Wouldn't it make sense to swap the 10 termagants for 10 hormagaunts, since you've already got 40 termies with devourers? Maybe use them to go tarpit somebody, or they can go melee with the warriors or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Very very nice. I love the 3 Trygons. Nah. Only 10 hormagaunts isn't going to kill much. And then I'd have to find 10 points. The list is pretty tight as it is. I could maybe drop a couple devourers, but the point of those 10 man units is to sit back on obejctives and take up a slot for units to start on the board so that I can deep strike more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
So, changes I made to the list: Dropped the 5 vanguard to add 2 power fist terminators Swapped the lascannon devastators for a vindicator Add a jump pack to the captain Don't have a third razorback so the heavy bolter devastators can stay for now. Librarian is getting replaced as soon as my copy of the astarted forgeworld index arrives. Captain with master crafted boltgun, relic blade, jump pack (117) Terminator librarian (161) 10 tactical marines with plasmagun, plasma cannon, combi flamer (175) 10 tactical marines with gravgun, missile launcher, combi flamer (181) 5 scouts with a heavy bolter (65) 5 assault marines with jump packs, eviscerator, melta bomb, 2 flamers (125) Contemptor dreadnought with multimelta (167) 7 cataphractii terminators (Power sword, 2 chainfists, 2 power fists, 2 double lightning claws, 1 heavy flamer) (349) Devastator squad with 4 heavy bolters and a storm bolter (107) Predator with TL lascannon, 2 heavy bolters (172) Vindicator with storm bolter (162) Razorback with TL assault cannon and storm bolter (102) Razorback with TL lascannon and storm bolter (117)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 04:04
|
|
|
Am I too late for the Dimachaeron lovefest? Always thought the official model was a bit goofy, so I converted one to look more like a giant Lictor. Better shot of the gobbler belly:  And more jungle bug love!        Converting Tyranids is the most fun it's possible to have playing 40k.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:So, changes I made to the list: Oh, I didn't realize the assault squad was only five guys. I'd recommend doing some mathhammer and seeing if they'll realistically stand up to a charge, or be able to put enough wounds to do something. Also I'm not a fan of the Vindicator; template weapons seem like utter poo poo this edition and the Vindicator's range basically guarantees it's going to get assaulted and murdered. I would much rather have a second Predator. In fact you could do two Lascannon/HB Predators by ditching the Vindicator and putting an assault cannon on the Lascannon Razorback. Just loving around here (and mind you I haven't even played a game yet so take my thoughts with a pillar of salt) you could do something like this: Captain with master crafted boltgun, relic blade, jump pack (117) Chaplain in Terminator Armor (117) 10 tactical marines with plasmagun, plasma cannon, combi flamer (175) 10 tactical marines with plasmagun, plasma cannon, combi flamer (175) 5 scouts with a heavy bolter (65) Contemptor dreadnought with multimelta (167) 10 cataphractii terminators with 2 Heavy Flamers (534) Devastator squad with 4 heavy bolters (105) Predator with TL lascannon, 2 heavy bolters (172) Predator with TL lascannon, 2 heavy bolters (172) Razorback with TL assault cannon (100) Razorback with TL assault cannon (100)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 04:57
|
|
|
Yeah originally the assault marines were just a flamer delivery system then at some point got an eviscerator. In an earlier iteration of the list they didn't even have jump packs, they used a razorback. In another list I've been thinking about I'm using a bunch of guardsmen in a chimera for a similar role. I just really want to do an all-marine list to see if it's even viable. Guard seem way too point efficient for some roles than marines are. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jun 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 04:59
|
|
|
So I was browsing through the IG stuff, and looking at the Tempestus Scions I realized that you can load down a full squad of them with four Plasma guns and a Plasma Pistol, deep strike them in rapid fire range, and give them the order to reroll 1s from a Tempestor Prime that can do the same thing, and give the order for two full squads. For just a little bit under 300 points, you can get 18 supercharged plasma shots rerolling 1s to hit that can deep strike, plus another 20 hotshot lasgun shots, also rerolling 1s. That's... a lot of guns for a decent chunk but definitely not crippling amount of points. It definitely seems worth it to have a Tank Deletion Group. They could all die on the following round and I'd still be hard pressed arguing against the kind of value.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 05:02
|
|
|
Just based on Tyranid and Ork players actually being energized to play again I'll call this edition a success. Almost want to actually start an Ork force now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 05:14
|
|
|
Strobe posted:So I was browsing through the IG stuff, and looking at the Tempestus Scions I realized that you can load down a full squad of them with four Plasma guns and a Plasma Pistol, deep strike them in rapid fire range, and give them the order to reroll 1s from a Tempestor Prime that can do the same thing, and give the order for two full squads. For just a little bit under 300 points, you can get 18 supercharged plasma shots rerolling 1s to hit that can deep strike, plus another 20 hotshot lasgun shots, also rerolling 1s. That's... a lot of guns for a decent chunk but definitely not crippling amount of points. It definitely seems worth it to have a Tank Deletion Group. They could all die on the following round and I'd still be hard pressed arguing against the kind of value. I have used these guys in both my games of 8th so far, and yes, they kick rear end. For perspective, a Scion officer and a command squad of 4xplasma guns was 145pts last edition. Now it's 40+64. I prefer the command squad to the regular one for suicide deep strike . . . outside 9" means outside rapid fire range for the hotshot lasguns, and of course you're paying for the guys. Command squads are not linked to number of HQs taken, you can just take the officer and 2 comd squads. As a general unit, a Scion with a hotshot lasgun is now 10pts and may just be a viable unit, but I think they'd be better off in the mechanised role. Apparently their Taurox Primes are fiendishly efficient gun-transports now? Like the 20 shot S4 gun is one of the most efficient all-round weapons in the game. Conversely, the traditional firepower of Leman Russes seems like it took a massive dive. You're not going to get many turret weapon hits with any of the main guns. (the exterminator and eradicator are just weedy; the vanquisher is still basically an inferior battle cannon) Sponsons and hull lascannon upgrades, which no longer snap fire from ordnance being fired, mostly went well up in price. Plasma cannons and the executioner in particular I want to call out. They are just not worth it - firing on normal power, the turret is pretty crap. Because any 1s remove the model outright (was this really something they couldn't write their way around on big vehicles?) the risk of super-charging is just unacceptable. Even with re-roll 1s, from a tank commander: that's a 1/36 chance of death per shot. With plasma sponsons, it puts out an average of about 8 shots a turn. It's nearly 25% to kill yourself every time you fire in the best possible situation. Don't think I'll be using Russes much, at least until a codex comes out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 06:17
|
|
|
Leman russes don't die from plasma failure, they take 6 mortal wounds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 06:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:34 |
|
|
Just don't supercharge unless you need it to do succeed-or-lose damage?  Plasma no longer Gets Hot unless you're pushing for extra S and D is a definite upgrade in my book.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 06:24
|
|