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Shifty Pony posted:One of the better cases of progressives managing to define the phrase used for an issue to score a messaging win. The GOP doesn't have a good snappy way to make opposition to it sound good so they either have to go into a long response explaining why it will hurt the almighty job creators or sound like a ghoul saying they oppose a "livable wage". Added bonus: The GOP politician is actually a ghoul for not supporting people making enough money to live on.
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Jun 9, 2017 13:44
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Night10194 posted:Added bonus: The GOP politician is actually a ghoul for not supporting people making enough money to live on. additional added bonus of also supporting cutting safety net progs for people not making enough money to live on
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Jun 9, 2017 13:48
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Night10194 posted:I suspect her going 'The fundamental difference between my opponent and I is I don't support you having a liveable wage!!!' was uh, a terrible mistake. Her soundbite needs to be applied against every GOP candidate in every race across the nation unless they explicitly state otherwise and even then, probably still run the add.
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Jun 9, 2017 13:51
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skylined! posted:I haven't gotten a good response yet from asking 'so what if they leaked, the info describes illegal activities and abuse of power'. unsurprisingly. Yeah, I think the "so what?" riposte is actually not a bad one to try. If someone is arguing that something is bad but doesn't really know why, like if they're just repeating a talking point or they have a ready-made label they just want to slap on as many people as they can, you can take a lot of wind out of their sails by making them explain what's so bad about it. Especially if you use "so what" as a pivot to something damning of your own. It's like the thing where you respond to a racist joke by making them explain why it's funny.
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Jun 9, 2017 13:51
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 ＴＨＥ ＰＩＳＳ ＴＡＰＥ ＩＳ ＲＥＡＬ
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Jun 9, 2017 13:55
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Rigel posted:AJC poll of likely voters this morning (Atlanta's newspaper) That's not the first poll to put him up 7. Makes Survey USA look like less of an outlier, and with 2 weeks to go, Handel has never led in any poll.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:04
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Cimber posted:TL;DR of yesterdays Comey meeting: It's faster to just link to the tweet...
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Jun 9, 2017 14:05
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paternity suitor posted:LEAKER is going to become the next FAKE NEWS. They'll use it as a tool to bend reality. FAKE NEWS was a way to discredit outsiders reporting the goings on within, now LEAKER will be used as a way to discredit insiders. I don't know what the next level would be from the admin. You can't trust yourself? You can't trust me? It's literally a cult tactic. "See the problem is you're thinking about it, stop thinking about it. There much better. Hup hup hup, you're thinking about it, stop thinking about it!"
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Jun 9, 2017 14:06
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/james-comey-leak-complaint/index.html They cannot possibly be this stupid, can they?
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Jun 9, 2017 14:09
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Riatsala posted:It's faster to just link to the tweet... probably, but i can't do anything twitter related at work.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:09
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Night10194 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/james-comey-leak-complaint/index.html Yeah, uh, my understanding was since it wasn't classified in any way...they can't...really do anything??
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Jun 9, 2017 14:10
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Night10194 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/james-comey-leak-complaint/index.html That's a stupid question and you should feel bad even asking (yes they are that stupid)
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Jun 9, 2017 14:11
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Night10194 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/james-comey-leak-complaint/index.html Trump's attorney misspelled "president" in his response to Comey's testimony. They absolutely are that stupid.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:11
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Can Comey go after anyone for slandering him as a liar?
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Jun 9, 2017 14:11
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Night10194 posted:http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/politics/james-comey-leak-complaint/index.html It's meaningless. They are trying to change the focus of the story and cnn is stupid for making it "breaking news"
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Jun 9, 2017 14:12
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morcant posted:Yeah, uh, my understanding was since it wasn't classified in any way...they can't...really do anything?? Well, they can pursue an obviously political trumped-up meritless charge. It's obviously malicious prosecution, but who's going to call them to account?
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Jun 9, 2017 14:12
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morcant posted:Yeah, uh, my understanding was since it wasn't classified in any way...they can't...really do anything?? My guess is they think they can muddy the waters this way? Pretend he did something illegal? All it's going to do is piss off the FBI more, though.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:13
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This is a tough one to muddy the waters on though. The defense is very succinct--Comey was a private citizen and those notes were his personal property, not classified information. Screaming "HE LEAKED CAUSE HE'S A LEAKY LEAKER" is really only going to rally the deadenders.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:14
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trump's lawyer has a long history of threatening lawsuits he has no intention of filing
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Jun 9, 2017 14:15
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Also he admitted it without hesitation under oath and then, also under oath, explained exactly why it was permissible.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:16
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Trump's legal strategy has always been to muddy the waters aggressively to make it too expensive for the other guy to continue, even if it's farcical. It usually works, but he's usually up against mom and pop contractors, not a well-liked former FBI head on the national stage.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Well, they can pursue an obviously political trumped-up meritless charge. It's obviously malicious prosecution, but who's going to call them to account? Night10194 posted:My guess is they think they can muddy the waters this way? Pretend he did something illegal? It's all a big waste of time, but at least the narrative seems to be loving them so thoroughly I suppose that's better than actually having something of substance. Doubly so if it pisses off the FBI. Little victories is how I plan to get through all this.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:18
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Well, they can pursue an obviously political trumped-up meritless charge. It's obviously malicious prosecution, but who's going to call them to account? Uh, a judge?
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Jun 9, 2017 14:18
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Trump's legal strategy has always been to muddy the waters aggressively to make it too expensive for the other guy to continue, even if it's farcical. It usually works, but he's usually up against mom and pop contractors, not a well-liked former FBI head on the national stage. Yeah, the "bury them in lawyers" solution doesn't work when you're taking on a Congressional investigation.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:20
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Koyaanisgoatse posted:Uh, a judge? quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_prosecution It's basically impossible to get a judgment against a prosecutor (i.e., here, Sessions) for malicious prosecution even when the case is very cut and dry. That would be especially true in the case of a complaint to a Congressional committee. There's functionally no redress for Comey here.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:20
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it's not malicious prosecution you dolts. nobody is prosecuting anything. they've filed a complaint, i.e. written a sternly worded letter. it's close to meaningless legally, it's a move for the press.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:21
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botany posted:it's not malicious prosecution you dolts. nobody is prosecuting anything. they've filed a complaint, i.e. written a sternly worded letter. it's close to meaningless legally, it's a move for the press. Right, I'm assuming a worst-case most extreme example where Sessions actually ran with it.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_prosecution Sure Comey can't sue, but I was just thinking along the lines of a judge dismissing the case and calling them idiots
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Jun 9, 2017 14:25
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botany posted:it's not malicious prosecution you dolts. nobody is prosecuting anything. they've filed a complaint, i.e. written a sternly worded letter. it's close to meaningless legally, it's a move for the press. A complaint is a document used to begin a lawsuit. Once you have filed and served a complaint, prosecution of the claim has begun.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:30
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I know the narrative is that the right wing is a master of the narrative and whatever they says goes, but the whole "fake news" "seth" "leakers" thing seems to have been an extreme failure and right wing media is at it's lowest ratings/influence in a decade right now, I don't think anyone should get too deep into the idea that these "alternate facts" stories are going to actually gain any ground.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I know the narrative is that the right wing is a master of the narrative and whatever they says goes, but the whole "fake news" "seth" "leakers" thing seems to have been an extreme failure and right wing media is at it's lowest ratings/influence in a decade right now, I don't think anyone should get too deep into the idea that these "alternate facts" stories are going to actually gain any ground. There's a difference between a Facebook post and when the literal federal government gets high on its own supply and tries to take down leakers.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:40
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https://twitter.com/rebeccagberg/status/873171006353027072
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Jun 9, 2017 14:40
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I know the narrative is that the right wing is a master of the narrative and whatever they says goes, but the whole "fake news" "seth" "leakers" thing seems to have been an extreme failure and right wing media is at it's lowest ratings/influence in a decade right now, I don't think anyone should get too deep into the idea that these "alternate facts" stories are going to actually gain any ground. Also they keep ramping up those excuses, yet Trump's approval ratings have been steadily dropping since the second he took office. poo poo's not working.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I know the narrative is that the right wing is a master of the narrative and whatever they says goes, but the whole "fake news" "seth" "leakers" thing seems to have been an extreme failure and right wing media is at it's lowest ratings/influence in a decade right now, I don't think anyone should get too deep into the idea that these "alternate facts" stories are going to actually gain any ground. We don't. It's just infuriating to see these dead-end assholes somehow spin this poo poo into their own universe of protective "alternative facts". You just want SOMETHING to puncture the bubble. To see United States senators start huffing it, though, is particularly disheartening.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:41
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sean10mm posted:Also they keep ramping up those excuses, yet Trump's approval ratings have been steadily dropping since the second he took office. poo poo's not working. Trying to pretend nothing interesting is happening when interesting stuff is happening doesn't work well. Also, they don't have an enemy to demonize right now and their entire strategy relies on that.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:42
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But it's his permanent record!
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Jun 9, 2017 14:42
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Night10194 posted:Trying to pretend nothing interesting is happening when interesting stuff is happening doesn't work well. It also relies on an enemy who's as unpopular and untrustworthy as Trump. Hillary fulfilled that role, but if the 22nd Amendment didn't exist and Obama had been his opponent, Trump would be back in his gilded penthouse slinging poo poo.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:43
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Alter Ego posted:We don't. It's just infuriating to see these dead-end assholes somehow spin this poo poo into their own universe of protective "alternative facts". You just want SOMETHING to puncture the bubble. I'm not sure what the absolute bottom even is for a Republican at this point. Trump's like 34% approval now, Nixon's floor was like 25%, but that was a long time ago.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:44
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We are probably going to find out. They're completely insane, all of them.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:46
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sean10mm posted:I'm not sure what the absolute bottom even is for a Republican at this point. Trump's like 34% approval now, Nixon's floor was like 25%, but that was a long time ago. Eh, it's going to be higher than Nixon. poo poo was partisan even then but not the hyperpartisan parody universe system we have now
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Jun 9, 2017 14:52
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