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I agree with resurgam! And I think that's a huge part of what has kept me reading this. My life isn't even close to what's going in here, but the underlying themes in this text really resonate with me. I'm reading it for validation, in a sense.
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Jun 8, 2017 17:16
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| # ? May 14, 2024 09:55 |
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I read this story both because it's very engaging and it's giving me an insight to love that I've never really thought of.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:08
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smug anime girls and music, I guess.
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Jun 8, 2017 18:19
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I'll be honest and say that when I try to sell Umineko to people, I pitch it as Revolutionary Girl Utena meets Agatha Christie.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:46
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I should probably watch utena sometime.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:47
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havenwaters posted:I should probably watch utena sometime.  got through the first 13 episodes, liked them and just haven't continued for no particular reason.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:52
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Utena is great. This framing device and narrative/metanarrative structure is well suited to gaming but often it's only really employed in the literary genre.
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Jun 8, 2017 23:54
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oath2order posted:I'll be honest and say that when I try to sell Umineko to people, I pitch it as Revolutionary Girl Utena meets Agatha Christie. That's almost shockingly apt.
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Jun 9, 2017 01:36
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 October 5th, 1986, 1:10 AM  Erika was dozing off on the bed, so when a knock sounded on the door, it took some time before she noticed. She looked at the clock and saw that not much time had passed since she had lain down.  "...Yes, who is it? I hope you have a good reason for knocking on the detective's door at an hour like this..." BGM: Smile-less Soiree  "Oh, that detective proclamation thing. Do as you wish." "No, I mean the opposite. I say we raise the stakes." "...Raise... the stakes...?" "What's this? Now that sounds interesting. What do you mean?" "...It's simple. Battler got a shot off at us in the last game. So, if Erika does the same in this game, we're only even." "Wasn't the last game a tie...?" "We threw a game we should have won easily, right? If that isn't a loss, I don't know what is. Right, Erika...?" "Y, yes, my master. If I hadn't failed so miserably, we would have won that game by default..."  "Y, you intend to challenge the game Battler-san poured his heart and soul into with a foolish handicap like that...? That is not only presumptuous, it's quite rude...!" "...Sure is. It sounds more like an excuse just in case they lose." "True, you could also look at it that way. If they win, it's a great victory, but if they lose, Erika's side has a nice little excuse. Isn't that a bit unsporting?" "Don't worry, this bet is balanced on both sides. If we win as a human without the detective proclamation this game, it will be impossible for Battler and the others to pick up the pieces of the Illusion of the Witch. But on the other hand, if Erika loses, that detective trash will be sent into the depths of oblivion along with the worst possible Fragment." "..." "...See? That's balanced, isn't it? An ultimate victory with a mere human, not a superman detective, destroying the Illusion of the Witch. She's putting her own destruction on the line to make that bet. I've gotten bored with these sluggish repeating games that you and the former Beato made. So we're raising the stakes and settling it all at once." "...Well, that is true. If Battler makes it through this game, it will mean that Battler has 'won' Beato's game, and the game will end. In a sense, it's a showdown you can't escape, right...?" "...I see your position. Are you okay with that, Erika?" "...Y, yes, of course. In order to regain my master's trust in me, which was lost by my previous defeat, I... I will risk even my own destruction..." "Is that of your own will...?"  "..." "...What's wrong, Erika? Answer him, okay...?" "O, obviously. This is my own will. I certainly will not lose... Even without the detective proclamation, I... I will defeat you no matter what...!!" "...Battler-san..." "...Sure, that's fine. If that's what you want, I'll accept that challenge." "...Th, thank you very much. I'll make sure you don't regret it." "After all, when Battler played for the human side, he never had anything as convenient as the detective's authority. All he was allowed to do was use the blue truth and ask Beato to repeat what he said." "Exactly. In a way, the last game was unfair. We failed to win despite that, which is why it was no different from a loss." "..." "Do what you want. If you feel like making a detective proclamation, do it whenever you like. I understand that you're holding it in reserve at the moment." "You really think... I would use it...? Against an opponent like you...?" "..." "Then get started, you two. I'm already starting to get bored." "...Leave it to me, my master...!! I will destroy the Illusion of the Witch for you without fail...!" BGM: None  "A good while ago, they went downstairs, saying they wanted to get something to drink. We thought they might have come to your room..." "Of course they didn't. Are you sure they didn't go to the mansion?" "We called the servant room and dining hall of the mansion, but no one picked up..." "..." "Please stay here, you two. I'm going to go check the mansion." "H, hey, it's dangerous to go out this late." "How could a stranger sneak into this sealed-off island? Stay in that cousins' room of yours. I'll contact you if anything happens. Also, tell the servants in the guesthouse servant room not to leave the building. Bye." "W, wait a second, Erika-san...?!!" "...She is a strange kid."After speaking her mind and not listening to anything else, Erika had dashed down the stairs and rushed outside.  BGM: Fishy Aroma Though she had an umbrella up, Erika got drenched as she sprinted. She brashly licked the raindrops that dripped down her face... Erika was at her most energetic... According to her memory from the previous game, the entrance hall to the mansion would be locked after the start of the family conference. However, the lock was undone this time. Had someone unlocked it, or had the lock not been set, or had it not been possible to set the lock?  "Well, no point thinking about it now. After all, that might just be a whim of the Game Master's."As soon as she entered the entrance hall, the door to the parlor opened violently. Out of it flew Gohda's large body. "Ah, good evening, Gohda-san. Is something the matter?" That expression really is wonderfully pathetic. Just fitting for the first one to discover the crime.  "Please calm down. How could the police or an ambulance get to an isolated island inside a typhoon? I'm sure the phones are out anyway, so please calm yourself."Krauss and Rudolf's yells could be heard from the parlor. Their shaken appearance perfectly signified the coming of the first twilight...  BGM: Deep Blue Jeer  "...Those who left to take a break didn't come back, so the adults went to the parlor. When they did, the door was sealed from the inside, and they couldn't open it. You'll see later, but the hat stand in the parlor had been used to bar the double doors from the inside." "So you're trying to say that the door was blocked from the inside, and the windows were also locked from the inside...?" "That's it. When they went around and looked into the parlor through the window, they saw Rosa lying on the sofa in an unnatural position, with blood pouring from her forehead. They then smashed the glass, entered the parlor, and discovered that Maria was also there, lying by the wall and covered in blood." "...Got it. That would make them yell. And the other crime scenes?" "The entrance wasn't locked when you came into the mansion... because they had gone out through it to check the parlor from the outside. Since it had been locked before they went out of it, and there was a chance that the other people who had gone missing were lying elsewhere within the mansion, the adults are now searching the entire building..." "So does it match the places where the victims died in that long, crazy delusion of yours that you showed earlier?" "...They match." "Rosa and Maria were in the parlor. Also, Natsuhi was in her own room, and Kyrie was in Krauss's study. Eva was in the rose garden... no, wait, she was moved to the VIP room, wasn't she?" "Yes. Eva's corpse was found in the VIP room." "That makes five victims. Ah, that's one short for the first twilight. Who's the sixth person, and where?" BGM: None  "Cut it!! The culprit might be hiding in there!!" "Gohda, do it!"Rudolf and Krauss had brought Winchesters from Kinzo's prized collection. They yelled at Gohda, who was carrying the wire cutters, to cut the chain. The victims had been found one after another at several locations inside the mansion. The men who had lost their wives searched through the mansion in a rage, looking for the culprit. This was... a guest room. It had previously been a room where the relatives would stay, but it hadn't been used much since the construction of the guesthouse. This forgotten room was locked from the inside by the chain... "...Nnnnn, hyaahh!!"As soon as the chain was cut, Rudolf pushed Gohda aside and flew into the room. "Is anyone there?! Get out here...!!" "There's someone on the bed...!" "Let's get some light, Aniki...!"When Krauss pushed a switch on the wall, the guest room lit up, and the figure lying on the bed came into view...  BGM: Requiem Rudolf fell over Battler's corpse as though his knees had crumbled. No words could console him as he cried with a mad sorrow... In a single night, he had lost both his wife and his son. During this time, Krauss had checked the window and the bathroom and searched the closet to find if anyone was hiding there, but he had found no one...  "Battleeer... Battleeeeeeer... dammiiiiit... aaaaaaahhhhh..." "H, how sad..." "...I can't believe it, but this room is also... a closed room." "Wh, what, again...?!" "Yes... My study, where Kyrie-san was, Natsuhi's room, the VIP room with Eva, the parlor with Rosa and her daughter... And now Battler-kun in this guest room. They're all closed rooms, aren't they...? I don't... understand... It couldn't be suicide, could it...?!" "That's impossible...!! How could this be a suicide?! Aaaaggggghhh... Battleeeeeeer..." BGM: Scar Sound "It's more interesting to kill yourself off every now and then." "And all of the crime scenes are closed rooms. It's a murder that could not have been performed without magic." "Hmph, isn't seeing through that the point of this game? In other words, it must be a murder that could have been performed without magic. After all, if it really could be done only with magic, this wouldn't be a game." "...That's an interesting thought. Yes, that is the sort of game we have been playing."This game is fair. The goal is to explain without magic the strange crimes that are claimed to be caused with magic. If that couldn't be done, it wouldn't be a game. In other words, as Erika had said, they must be murders that could have been performed without magic... To turn it around, the witch side had a certain responsibility. They had to make a crime that could be reproduced with tricks and not magic. As long as the human side couldn't see through to those tricks, the witch side could use all kinds of magic and illusions. In other words, in order to carry out a closed room murder with magic... It was necessary to create a crime that would be possible by human hands.  BGM: Look Back  "'Magic can only do what you can accomplish by your own hands', was it?"At that time, if I had possessed the determination to kill my classmates, no, that's not it. At that time, if I had been capable of killing my classmates... Capable of pulling it off... Then the Seven Sisters of Purgatory would probably have pulled it off for me. They could only accomplish what I could do myself... No, that's not it either. They could take what I had accomplished and turn it into 'magic'. However, because there had been a great number of witnesses in that classroom, it would probably have been impossible. It would have been burned by that anti-magic toxin Maria onee-chan and the others always talk about. However, if I had called those classmates out somewhere without witnesses, and if I had succeeded in murder... At that point, 'the Seven Sisters of Purgatory would be capable of carrying out a magical murder'...  "...Even with magic, witches cannot do things that they cannot accomplish by themselves. They can only 'adorn' the things they can do with magic." "...Interesting. And that is because those who accomplish something without using magic... later claim that there was magic and call themselves witches." "This Erika person has understood that since the beginning. That's why she will never surrender to witches. She is confident that it must be explainable with tricks. The old Battler was toyed with so frequently because he did not possess that confidence..." "...If this rule is seen through, the witch loses any chance at victory. That's why they have to make their opponent surrender before they see the truth of this rule. The longer the match is drawn out, and the more hints are given, the greater the witch's overwhelming disadvantage becomes..."Once again, this reasoning keeps spinning around in circles.  BGM: None ...  Hideyoshi's group seemed to have gone to the guesthouse, worrying about the safety of the kids there. Krauss and Rudolf were in the hall, talking about what should be done next... During a short gap in this chaos, Erika dashed all about the mansion. She was checking the crime scenes. Normally, with the detective's authority, Erika had the right to openly investigate the crime scenes to her heart's content. However, this time, she hadn't yet made use of that authority. Because of that, and with her being a guest and an outsider, there was little to no chance that she would be allowed to investigate. So, she was forced to quickly check all of the crime scenes now, while she could still run about as she pleased. In the servant room, there had been a clear folder containing a sketch of the mansion's interior. Because she had borrowed that, she knew the location of all rooms in the mansion... Erika skillfully made her way through the mansion, dashing into each crime scene in turn...  BGM: Golden Sneer  "Yes? What is it?" "It is true that you have an incredible photographic memory, Lady Erika. By combining that with the detective's proclamation, it is impossible for you to be fooled by ANYTHING." "Yeah, I get it. Since no detective proclamation has been made about me, even my photographic memory doesn't count as foolproof evidence. Of course, I understand that. Still, that doesn't mean I can afford to miss viewing the crime scenes directly." "...After all, in the last game, my pride in that regard led me to a truly miserable failure." "For example, by this argument, no matter how well you examine a person's corpse, you could not even guarantee that they were not faking their death with absolute CERTAINTY. Most probably, features of this situation must be individually confirmed by telling Battler to repeat them in red." "And I'll need to use the blue truth liberally in order to make him. I understand. Let's start with the basics. The lack of the detective's authority is no handicap. It simply means that I'm fighting under the same conditions Battler once was." I have no conveniences such as the detective's authority. I just have to truly fight the same way the old Battler fought. Thinking of it this way, it may be true that I was in a very blessed, unfair position last game, just as my master has said... It may be difficult without the detective's authority, which also holds my honor as a detective. But I won't let that be a handicap. I know what magic is, and I'm fully aware of how to fight with the red and blue truths. I know the way to fight in this game many times better than the old Battler did... I quickly visited the VIP room, Krauss's study, and Natsuhi's room on the second floor, as well as the parlor and the guest room on the first floor, this time checking with my own eyes, as I had failed to do in the last game... First off, all of the scenes were made to look like closed rooms. Probably of special note was the fact that the master keys had no relation to the tricks this time. The closed rooms were all made without relying on any elements that could be locked or unlocked from the outside by a master key or something else. The windows were locked from the inside, and the doors were all locked and chained. The master key could get around all of the locks on the doors, but not the window locks or the chain locks. I haven't yet had Battler confirm that it's impossible to manipulate those from the outside, but I'm sure he'll be able to say it in red. It'd be stupid otherwise. "...I understand. Right now, I am a mere human. I can't even properly confirm the death of the corpses." ...Last time I neglected to check the corpses, and let a massive bit of 'magic' get by me. I won't fail like that again... If I did, I wouldn't be able to face the master I am so indebted to...  BGM: Mind "Go ahead." "First, all of the rooms form closed rooms with the window locks and chain locks, so that 'interference from the outside would be DIFFICULT'. The only exception is the parlor, where Rosa and Maria lay DEAD." "Please, allow me to speak. Let it be known that the door was barred with a hat stand." "It is thought to be substantially the same as a chain lock, in that it can only be set from the inside." "It is probably their goal to construct closed rooms where explanations using master keys are made completely INEFFECTIVE. The parlor has no chain lock due to its very nature, so it is natural that something else would be used in the chain's PLACE." "...In that case, the interesting question becomes why one of the other rooms that have chain locks wasn't chosen to be a closed room. There were several other guest rooms other than the one Battler lay dead in, all with a similar construction, correct?" "Yes, that is CORRECT." "In that case, even though it should have been more beautiful to throw them in there, so that everyone would be inside a chain lock closed room, they did not." "...This hat stand door bar in the parlor seems very suspicious. I should probably pursue this when demanding red truths. Also, we have corpses, but are they the same absolute deaths with their necks sliced open like in the last game, which could be confirmed even without the detective's authority?"Of course, she had checked all of the corpses in all of the crime scenes this time. However, without the detective's authority, she had no guarantee that she would be able to see through any faked deaths 'with certainty'... The old Battler had also started fighting by doubting whether the victims were truly dead. It was the same for Erika... "Please, allow me to speak. Know that there were no corpses that could have been confirmed dead with certainty by physical means." "Please, allow me to speak. We cannot deny the possibility that any one of these corpses might be a faked death." "...Well, I doubt Battler will easily confirm their deaths in red even if I tell him to. Sheesh..." BGM: Black Lilliana "...There are two general ways of breaking closed rooms that Battler might be after. An illusion of a closed room, or an illusion of a crime. It'll be one of those." "I get the first one. That's when something looks like a closed room, but it actually isn't, right? What do you mean by an illusion of a crime?" "...An illusion that makes it seem as though a crime has occurred. In other words, are they really dead?" "Come on, are you kidding me? If the people inside are alive, handling any kind of closed room is like pissing in a toilet. Still, with this closed room... It's pretty hard to think of any other answer." "What about the endless possibilities of manipulating the chain lock from the outside? We don't know if there are secret doors, ways to kill from a distance, chances of suicide, or even whether these are complete closed rooms in the first place." "...I already know, since I'm looking at Battler's game board from the underside, but these are perfect closed rooms. They can only be constructed from the inside, and there exists no method by which to construct, deconstruct, or interfere with them from the outside." "Can you say that in red?" "That'd be a little too rude to Battler, so no. If you do love me, you must see my words as red truth, right...?" "...Then the closed rooms are perfect. In other words, this is an illusion of a crime." "Unfortunately, this isn't a fake. The victims really have been killed." "Huh?! You don't mean by 24:00 on the second day, right?" "No detective proclamation has been made, but she is very accurate when examining corpses. I could almost even give her examinations the red truth." "So? Does that mean that they were definitely dead when Erika examined their corpses?" "Yes, that's right. Totally." "But you won't say it in red for her, ri-ght? *giggle*, and that poor Erika must want it so ba-d." "Well, she isn't the detective this time around. I won't give her any red. *giggle*giggle*." "However, that makes it incredible. This time, Battler's really made a perfect closed room!" "...Oh, is that so?" "Will Erika be alright? It looks like an ordinary closed room murder at a glance, but this one is pretty nasty. Won't this load be a bit too heavy for Erika without her detective's authority...?" "She is a self-proclaimed detective. I'm sure she'll pull through. If Battler and Beato are defeated by a mere human who isn't even a detective, they'd fall apart in the most exquisite way, don't you think?" "...And even if Erika loses, you get to play by throwing her into the worst Fragment and knocking her into the depths of oblivion?" "Exactly. No matter how we fall, it won't be boring." "You really are heartless, aren't you? Well, wringing out this black cat like a towel and licking up every last drop is my only bliss!" "Beato's game board did entertain me for quite some time, but we've already wrung everything we can from it." "...Sheesh. And I wanted to play with you forever in this game. What a shame." "Come now. I've spent plenty of time with you already. Go find me another interesting game. If you do, I'll play with you again..." "Ah, yes, you really don't let me get bored. That's alright, Bernkastel. Seeing your face twist with anguish is the one forbidden honey I've found for myself."Lambdadelta had guaranteed that it was a perfect closed room. Bernkastel had guaranteed that it was a perfect murder. A perfect 'closed room' and 'murder'. The witches hate a killjoy, so they haven't said anything with the red truth yet. 
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Jun 9, 2017 13:21
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"Then get started, you two. I'm already starting to get bored." "...Leave it to me, my master...!! I will destroy the Illusion of the Witch for you without fail...!" After these lines, Bern scatters away and the scene fades to black while Erika makes some faces.   Also, a missing line here: ProfessorProf posted:
Aaand the victims get profile updates. tiistai fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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Jun 9, 2017 13:47
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I'm kinda hoping one of these "pieces" decides they've had enough of this poo poo and stabs back. Mostly because having Erika attack Bern would be kinda cathartic. Still, I've done my share of creative writing, and I know the terrible poo poo I put my characters through for the sake of a story would put me on the same level. It's really well done here how you can feel sympathy for even the worst person(s).
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Jun 9, 2017 13:59
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The lack of detective is going to make this interesting, I guess we can't trust anything anyone sees now. Battler being killed by meta-Battler means suicide is the obvious explanation, but that seems too obvious to be true. Or maybe my wild theory about him also having a split personality is true, who knows.
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Jun 9, 2017 15:41
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tiistai posted:
That's pretty relevant, like the other scene in episode 5 where something similar happened. But man this is a tricky one. Battler's dead, which confuses all the motivations from before assuming we're playing by the rules of Beato's game. We have basically no red to work with, so we'll have to take Lambda and Bern's statements as red for the nonce. In terms of possible solutions, let's start with: the victims were killed between when the closed room was broken into and when their bodies were examined. My view of Beatrice's goal is still that she wants to be found, to be acknowledged, likely by Battler specifically. Nothing that's been said recently changes that. It's interesting that they acknowledge the love-trial-meta as something completely separate from the board-game-meta. What's chick-Beato's feelings on this then, I wonder?
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Jun 9, 2017 15:44
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RedMagus posted:I'm kinda hoping one of these "pieces" decides they've had enough of this poo poo and stabs back. Mostly because having Erika attack Bern would be kinda cathartic. I dunno... it'd be cathartic, I guess, but from the faces tiistai pointed out versus everything else we've been told about Erika's character, she feels a little too... broken to do anything like that. Berne is her abuser, and it really does seem as if we've reached the event horizon in that abuser-abused relationship: in which the latter is so broken and desperate for any kind of recognition from the former that they don't even consider looking elsewhere for help. And that's still terrible to me, which means yes, this is a well written story; Erika might be awful, but nobody deserves that.  But hey, it looks like Battler is the final victim (props to Qrr), but more interesting to me was how little fanfare there was in regards to the killing. No big monologue or scene, he's just dead, and that's in contrast to the other murders' flash and pomp, meaning... wghat? That it contains no lesson or message regarding love, or that the message is elsewhere, possibly already been said?
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Jun 9, 2017 16:46
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Cyouni posted:In terms of possible solutions, let's start with: the victims were killed between when the closed room was broken into and when their bodies were examined. Why stop there, let's get all of the easy ones out of the way: The victims committed suicide. The victims were poisoned, then attacked in such a way that they'd barricade themselves in a room before succumbing to the poison. If they were attacked by someone with a master key, a lock alone wouldn't suffice. They all died of natural causes completely coincidentally. Small Bombs. resurgam40 posted:But hey, it looks like Battler is the final victim (props to Qrr), but more interesting to me was how little fanfare there was in regards to the killing. No big monologue or scene, he's just dead, and that's in contrast to the other murders' flash and pomp, meaning... wghat? That it contains no lesson or message regarding love, or that the message is elsewhere, possibly already been said? We got several earlier scenes of Unnamed Person(now Battler) trying to figure out how to set up a closed room while escaping. Looks like he settled on no escape, die in the room.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:01
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resurgam40 posted:But hey, it looks like Battler is the final victim (props to Qrr), but more interesting to me was how little fanfare there was in regards to the killing. No big monologue or scene, he's just dead, and that's in contrast to the other murders' flash and pomp, meaning... wghat? That it contains no lesson or message regarding love, or that the message is elsewhere, possibly already been said? Well in the context of the narrative Battler is building, he was the one who did that. Symbolically I'd say something along the lines of killing his old self to allow for love for Beatrice, because his old self wouldn't allow for that to happen.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:07
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ZiegeDame posted:We got several earlier scenes of Unnamed Person(now Battler) trying to figure out how to set up a closed room while escaping. Looks like he settled on no escape, die in the room. *wrinkles nose* Are we... sure that Trapped Person is now-dead meat-Battler? Because the mundane Battler was walking around with the cousins while Trapped Person was busy being trapped and getting devoured by witches... the earliest Battler could have been killed was around 10 PM last night, after Erika vs. MARIA and the cousins retired to play cards around 10 PM. Heh, maybe Erika did it to show him up for talking back. ... Waaait a minute... Erika doesn't have detective authority this time, does she? Could she have killed Battler?
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Jun 9, 2017 17:22
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resurgam40 posted:... Though technically possible, I'd say it's highly unlikely. It'd require that players have no concept of what their piece is doing, or Battler would be setting himself up for an instant loss.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:36
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Cyouni posted:Well in the context of the narrative Battler is building, he was the one who did that. Symbolically I'd say something along the lines of killing his old self to allow for love for Beatrice, because his old self wouldn't allow for that to happen. Pretty much this! I can't help but think how convenient it is that Erika is no longer the detective (meaning that we can't trust anything from their perspective as 100% truth) right about the time that Battler was found 'dead' in a 'closed room'. If for this game Erika still had Detective's Authority and they had viewed Battler's 'corpse,' then this chapter would have been done already. Erika would not have been fooled by a faked death, and probably would have hit Battler for pretending to be dead. After all, the characters in the meta world are talking about a sixth person, not a sixth corpse. The word choice has so far tantalizingly avoided giving direct answers for whether Battler is truly dead. Also, Gohda is still the best character. 
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Jun 9, 2017 18:08
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Wait a minute... Is this the part where Battler fucks up and makes the murders too perfect, causing the scenario we saw at the beginning of this chapter? He keeps making "perfect" murders that eventually he can't solve, and that gets him stuck? You know what? I got some blue I wanna try throwing out, but I don't remember how much evidence I need to throw down the blue.
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Jun 9, 2017 18:27
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Is this the fathers' time to shine? More Hideyoshi and Rudolf time, oh yeah!
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Jun 9, 2017 18:28
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bman in 2288 posted:Wait a minute... Is this the part where Battler fucks up and makes the murders too perfect, causing the scenario we saw at the beginning of this chapter? He keeps making "perfect" murders that eventually he can't solve, and that gets him stuck? I don't think you need any evidence to throw out the blue, but the more ignorant the blue the easier it is to counter with red. Battler, you should not have taken Berns deal. Or at least hold out for her to have an actual loss if she loses, rather than (as Bern points out) something she would have wanted to do anyway. Also, woo, called Battler offing himself. It is true that suicide is currently an option. Oh, and as for the person who is trapped in the closed room... I actually now think that the most likely candidate is Erika. What more appropriate hell to send a failed detective to? It wouldn't be consistent with the marriage we saw at the start of the episode, but otherwise it would make a lot of sense.
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Jun 9, 2017 19:18
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Wait how did Erika throw last game? poo poo. I forgot. Edit: my god this VN is complicated. Artificer fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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Jun 9, 2017 20:36
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Artificer posted:Wait how did Erika throw last game? poo poo. I forgot. She just tied last game despite having an advantage Battler never had, "throwing the game" is just saying she didn't try hard enough.
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Jun 9, 2017 21:20
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She threw the game by insisting on sticking to a theory that she knew wasn't true. That being that Kinzo is alive and sleeping with Natsushi.
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Jun 9, 2017 21:22
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Oh yeah. Alright that makes sense. Thanks!
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Jun 9, 2017 21:23
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So, I'm trying to keep in mind the hints we were given, regarding the cheese and coins, and try to keep love in my heart at the same time, trying to find the murderer. It's hard. That being said, my first claim is that George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon were involved in the killing, but were not the perpetrators. I feel this makes sense, given who they decided to "kill" in their game, and the cheese/coin logic. Instead, I'll claim that Battler was the killer this time around, and was listening in on the game in some way, so he knew who to kill. If all else fails, however, Battler messed up and created murders which could neither be solved properly due to lack of proper clues, or because they were carried out in a way that was not feasible in the current situation on the island.
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Jun 9, 2017 22:38
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Cyouni posted:In terms of possible solutions, let's start with: the victims were killed between when the closed room was broken into and when their bodies were examined. I think this is on the money. Bern and Lambda make that fairly obvious. The crime was an illusion... until it wasn't.
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Jun 10, 2017 07:48
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Another possibility, which we've used to solve closed rooms before: The rooms weren't actually chained shut, and some set of people are pretending they were. Erika didn't see a single room that was actually closed, I believe, not that her view is special anymore. She got there too late, and she wasn't there when they opened Battler's room either. We don't know exactly who was present for the opening of each room, though the ones we see opening Battler's room are probably accurate. It's possible that Gohda could have faked the chain without Krauss and Rudolf being in on it, though difficult. Qrr fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Jun 10, 2017 10:10
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Looking at it again, we have confirmation that the doors to the parlour are double doors. It also stands out that cause of death is very up in the air, even after Erika's examination. Lastly, I've been thinking about what exactly Detective Authority covers. Erika says that she's playing on the same field as Battler was. Dlanor in the fifth episode notes that Battler was the detective for the first four episodes, and also notes that the Decalogue applies, making it so that he has an objective point of view. So the two things that I think Detective Authority covers that were lost can be described as certainty and the ability to be unquestionable. The latter is pretty simple - under Detective Authority, the detective can take whatever actions they deem fit. The former is a little more variable. It elevates detective-vision from 'objective' to 'completely accurate', so that any investigations they personally perform are guaranteed to be accurate. For example, as covered in the last update, fake deaths can't be hidden from their eyes. Furthermore, so far as I can tell, the rules of Beatrice's game still apply, meaning the Decalogue is still in effect. All this combined suggests that piece-Erika's vision can still be trusted to be accurate, though not necessarily to be correct in what it sees.
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Jun 10, 2017 14:03
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Cyouni posted:So the two things that I think Detective Authority covers that were lost can be described as certainty and the ability to be unquestionable. The latter is pretty simple - under Detective Authority, the detective can take whatever actions they deem fit. The former is a little more variable. It elevates detective-vision from 'objective' to 'completely accurate', so that any investigations they personally perform are guaranteed to be accurate. For example, as covered in the last update, fake deaths can't be hidden from their eyes. Not exactly. A Detective is not a Doctor, so it is possible to fool him with a fake corpse - however, not without clues. What the detective authority guarantees is that his point of view is never false (for example, the author cannot make him see things that aren't there), not that what he sees is always completely accurate to the truth (for example, a corpse he doesn't properly examine might not be really dead). tiistai fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Jun 10, 2017 17:14
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tiistai posted:Not exactly. A Detective is not a Doctor, so it is possible to fool him with a fake corpse - however, not without clues. What the detective authority guarantees is that his point of view is never false (for example, the author cannot make him see things that aren't there), not that what he sees is always completely accurate to the truth (for example, a corpse he doesn't properly examine might not be really dead). That was the way I was thinking, but there's a line in the last update that suggests otherwise: ProfessorProf posted:Of course, she had checked all of the corpses in all of the crime scenes this time. However, without the detective's authority, she had no guarantee that she would be able to see through any faked deaths 'with certainty'... From what I can tell, that's always true of the detective, but Detective Authority seems to be a level above that.
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Jun 10, 2017 18:28
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Thats because Erika was was stated to be able to tell if corpses were dead or not due how good she was if she examined them.
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Jun 10, 2017 19:46
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The main important thing for this story I think is that the detective can't see things that are not there, so if we do see magic from Erikas pov then it's someone dressed up and using sleight of hand, not a metaphor, and not real magic. Not that we're likely to see magic when Erika's involved, not without clues pointing to what's really going on at least, like with the sweet under the cup.
Graylien fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 10, 2017 20:40
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If the detective can also perform accurate examinations like Erika then of course that's a different matter. Battler, for example, is not confident in his abilities to do that, so even though when he's a detective it doesn't mean he couldn't be fooled depending on the circumstances. Erika's problem here is that she can't necessarily trust what she sees. Or something to that effect. tiistai fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Jun 10, 2017 20:47
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Make Text Red Again 2017.
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Jun 10, 2017 21:00
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Cyouni posted:But man this is a tricky one. Battler's dead, which confuses all the motivations from before assuming we're playing by the rules of Beato's game. We have basically no red to work with, so we'll have to take Lambda and Bern's statements as red for the nonce. In terms of possible solutions, let's start with: the victims were killed between when the closed room was broken into and when their bodies were examined. I mean that jives, the only reason I might be inclined to doubt it is that it feels like the mysterious person trapped in the closed room is eventually going to come to a solution, and that solution ending with them not escaping and just being murdered when someone else comes in isn't very narratively satisfying.
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Jun 10, 2017 21:26
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tiistai posted:If the detective can also perform accurate examinations like Erika then of course that's a different matter. Battler, for example, is not confident in his abilities to do that, so even though when he's a detective it doesn't mean he couldn't be fooled depending on the circumstances. Oh, definitely. It's more that though you have to have some sort of expertise in the subject, having Detective Authority seems to elevate it from "possibly incorrect" to "guaranteed correct". The way that was described, it enables the ability for Erika to see through any faked deaths 'with certainty', so long as she gets the chance to actually examine them. Graylien posted:THe main important thing for this story I think is that the detective can't see things that are not there, so if we do see magic from Erikas pov then it's someone dressed up and using sleight of hand, not a metaphor, and not real magic. Not that we're likely to see magic when Erika's involved, not without clues pointing to what's really going on at least, like with the sweet under the cup. That's the main point I was trying to get across, yes. CottonWolf posted:I mean that jives, the only reason I might be inclined to doubt it is that it feels like the mysterious person trapped in the closed room is eventually going to come to a solution, and that solution ending with them not escaping and just being murdered when someone else comes in isn't very narratively satisfying. I'm relatively sure our "mysterious person" is intended to represent our murderer, so if they can cut the chain on the door and then close it, it might work as a description of the result. That would fit the "chain being set and the door closed".
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Jun 11, 2017 00:18
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 BGM: Where "Yes, I'm satisfied. So, about our war of red and blue. Shall we start right away? Or do it all at the end?" "I don't like putting things off. I think the same goes for you." "Then let's get started with the closed rooms of the first twilight. First, I'd like to check. Do you intend to respond if I ask you to repeat something in red?" "Depending on what you say, yes. I have no obligation to respond to all, and I won't reveal my reasons when I refuse." "<Good>. Then let's start simple and confirm the definition of a closed room. Dlanor! Please read it aloud." "UNDERSTOOD. We demand that the following be REPEATED."Dlanor spread out one of those scrolls that some official would always spread out when announcing the king in western fairy tales, and read it aloud. "First. 'The rooms with the six people in them are all closed ROOMS'." At a nod from Dlanor, Cornelia, who stood behind her, started taking notes. "Second. 'The definition of closed room implies that it is impossible to construct from the OUTSIDE'." "Acknowledged." "...In other words, no trickery done from the outside can construct a closed room. It is not permitted for a chain lock to be reset from the outside by a skillfully used wire, for example." "I didn't need you to tell me that. Dlanor, please continue." "Third. 'The definition of a closed room implies that all forms of interference that pass between the inside and outside of the room are PREVENTED'." "Acknowledged. However, I won't deny the kinds of interference that you'd expect from a normal room, such as knocks, voices, and the extension telephone line." "Fourth. 'At the time of the deconstruction of the closed rooms, none existed within the rooms except the VICTIMS (Natsuhi, Eva, Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, Battler)'." "Acknowledged."In this way, they could check whether or not the culprit had been hiding inside a closed room. If the culprit had slipped out of the room after the discoverers had noticed the murders and then walked away, it would have been possible to construct an illusion of a closed room. Because Battler had acknowledged their statement with the red truth, the possibility that the culprit and the victim had both been inside the closed room at the time of the crime, that the culprit had hid under the bed and snuck out after the discovery of the crime... had been denied. "Fifth. 'No murder was committed after the deconstruction of the closed ROOMS'." BGM: Fishy Aroma "...Why? Because the victims really were alive after the closed rooms were destroyed? So, Krauss and the others who crowded in were the culprits and committed the murders then. In other words, it was a murder after the closed rooms. Is it because this is the truth...?!" "No, that's not true. The murders will continue to occur, so we cannot say in red that no murders will happen after this." "...Sheesh, what twisted logic. You probably see what we're getting at. Krauss's group cut the chain and destroyed the closed rooms, then killed the people inside. I just want you to argue against this." "Lady Erika, it is insufficient to refer to 'Krauss's group', an unspecified number of PEOPLE. You should first check to see which humans entered the room after the closed room was DECONSTRUCTED." "Allow me to speak. Excepting the victims, those who entered the closed rooms were Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda." "Allow me to speak. This is based on hearsay. There is no proof that others did not enter." "I know that already. Let's have you repeat that. 'After the deconstruction of the closed rooms, then excluding me, only Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda entered the rooms'." "Sure. Acknowledged. However, this only applies to the current point in time. It's possible that some later development in the game will cause more people to enter." "..."Battler put his finger on his chin, deep in thought. This word 'culprit' was fairly broad. And it might serve to greatly restrict the darkness of the witch. "...Why not answer? If we refuse, they'll leave behind a blue truth saying that Krauss and the others were the culprits." "...Sure. I'll acknowledge it, but I'll make the language more strict. Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda... were not involved in the murders of Natsuhi, Eva, Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, and Battler." "And that means, 'it was also impossible for any of the other humans, who didn't even enter the closed room, to have been involved in those murders', doesn't it?" "Who knows. Think about it yourself. If you think you can build up some blue truth for how a closed room murder can be committed without entering the room, then I'll respond with the red truth. However, I only need to destroy one of the blue truths you'll be presenting from here on out. In other words, even if you do manage to use the blue truth and explain this away with some long-distance closed room murder trick X, I don't necessarily have to counter that with the red truth." The witch side lays out riddle after riddle that it claims are impossible to carry out except by magic. The human side must use the blue truth to argue that they are explainable with tricks. And if they cannot make a counterargument with the blue truth for even one of the riddles, that riddle will be considered to have been 'done by magic', and it will be impossible to deny the existence of a witch... In other words, the witch side only needs to protect any one of its riddles. On the contrary, the human side has to fully explain all riddles with the blue truth. And even if the human side manages to explain all of the riddles with the blue truth, if any one of those is successfully countered by the red truth, the witch will win. That was why, like the strategy the old Beato had adopted at the end, it was sufficient for the witch side to put off their red text counterarguments until the very last moment, then make a single strike at their opponent's most fragile spot... "In any event, you've refused to repeat that last one, right?" "Don't kid yourself. I don't give out red for free." "...Ggh..."From the witch side's perspective, repeating statements made by the human side is just a supplement to make sure that they haven't misunderstood the question. Therefore, they had no obligation to respond to extremely broad demands...  BGM: Rhythm-changer "Your experience is no match for mine." "Tch...! Dlanor!" "Let us CONTINUE. Next, 'the victims did not die by any method other than HOMICIDE'." "Acknowledged." "Of course, there were no suicides or accidental deaths." "Seventh, 'the victims-" "...Are you SURE? There are still items..." "Yes, that will do fine. I've confirmed the status of the crime scene. From here on, it's time for me to argue back with the blue truth." "Sure, fine. Let me hear your masterful theories."Though Battler and Erika were enemies, it looked to Beato as though they were having a little fun doing it. She was probably slightly jealous of Erika. Beato thought back on the books she had read in Featherine's archives, in which the old her and Battler had fought. That must have been fun as well. During a short break in the family conference, a horrible, brutal mass murder had occurred... The six people killed, excluding Battler, had all been women... The remaining men went mad with rage at this cowardice, then broke down sobbing at the sadness of losing their wives... over and over again...  BGM: Voiceless "What's wrong with us?! Here we are, under the same roof, and we're just smoking away, not noticing that members of our own family are being killed... dammit!!" "...But... who... how...? They were not unguarded... The chain was set for all of them..." "Who gives a drat about that?! I don't care how they killed them, I just want to know who!!" "Hey, Genji-san, Gohda-san. Were the doors and windows to the mansion all locked during the family conference...?" "Y, yes. There can be no doubt...!" "...In accordance with Madam's instructions, everything is always locked at the time of the night patrol. Tonight was a special case, but everything was locked up shortly after seeing the children off to the guesthouse..." "How is that possible...?! I mean, Battler and Maria-chan were inside the mansion, right?! They shouldn't have been able to get in, right?!" "If everythin' really was locked up properly, that couldn't have happened...! Doesn't that fact prove that the building wasn't completely locked up...? Well? Well?!"He was arguing that Gohda's failure to lock up properly might have allowed a stranger to sneak in. At the very least, none of them had known that Battler and Maria had visited the mansion. If those two had come and found everything locked tight, they wouldn't have been able to get inside. If they had rung the doorbell, Gohda would probably have heard them from the servant room, but Gohda said that nothing of the sort had happened. How they had entered the locked mansion was a complete mystery...   "That couldn't have happened! You were in the servant room then, right, Gohda-san?! Isn't there a chime in the servant room that goes off when the front door opens? There's no way you'd have missed anyone!" "W, well..." "...At that time, Gohda was serving drinks as you requested, so he was not in the servant room." "Why was there only one servant in the mansion on such an important day?! Why was someone as important as Genji-san on duty in the guesthouse?! Does that make any sense?! Why was the servant room left empty...?!!" "...My wife formed those shifts. She probably hoped that Gohda would be kind enough to serve some fashionable drinks during the family conference as well..." "But Krauss nii-san...! This is the family conference, right?! The most important day of the year, right?! Why was Gohda-san left as the only person on shift in the mansion...?! If there had been just one more person, everythin' would be different, wouldn't it?! Right? Right?!"With a half-crying, half-enraged jumbled up expression, Hideyoshi yelled at Gohda. Of course, the culprit who killed everyone was the most to blame and the most despicable. However, even if he understood that, he needed to let off some of his emotions by hating someone he could see.  BGM: None "...Either Gohda-san wasn't thorough when locking up, or someone let Battler-san and Maria-san in after they came back from the guesthouse, and then forgot to lock up afterwards. However, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the culprit snuck in." "...After all, the mansion is massive. They might have come in much earlier and hid until late at night for all we know. I can understand that you might want to suspect certain people, but please calm down." "...Our guest is right. The culprit is the one we should hate, not the servant who just happened to be on duty... At any rate, let's calm down. I feel as terrible as the rest of you. However, we must take the initiative now and regain our composure." "Aniki..." "Everyone feels just as sad and devastated. And none of us will ever forgive the one who did this. For that reason, we must regain our composure..." "...H, he's right. I still have George. Krauss nii-san still has Jessica-chan. And Rudolf-kun... you still have Ange-chan waitin' for you to return, right? It's still... too soon... to start pointin' fingers..." "...The culprit is still on this island. And we can't be sure that this tragic crime is over. We need to stay calm and prevent any further tragedies."Erika's words softly consoled them... and gently admonished them. If a servant had said the same thing, Rudolf would probably have jumped on him. However, since it had come from the lips of the guest, a neutral party, it seemed to reach their ears.  BGM: Dead Angle  "...She's right. We can't let the culprit do as they please any longer on our island." "Let's find the culprit! We're in the middle of a typhoon. They can't escape from the island, and there's a limited number of places they can take shelter from the rain in...!" "This island is larger than you'd think. Unfortunately, it would be difficult to search the island with this many people. After all, if you found the culprit now, you'd kill them. If the frightened culprit has run into that deep forest, you won't find them easily." "...Right. We should just wait for the typhoon to pass, have the boat call the police for us, and let them thoroughly search the island... The police are incredible. They'll bring hundreds of people and pick through it with a fine-toothed comb. That forest may be deep, but they'll definitely smoke the culprit out..." "The most important thing now... is to make sure no more of our beloved family members are taken from us. Rudolf. If something happens to you, what will happen to Ange-chan back home?" "...Kyrie... Battler... Dammit... dammiiiiiiit... I never... had a chance... to tell you the truth..." "...Krauss-san. I'm sure that everyone in the cousins' room is extremely agitated right now. If you show them that you've regained your composure, I'm sure that will help them relax a lot. Would you mind heading up there?" "...Good point. We have to talk with everyone about what we're going to do next." "Please go up with him, Genji-san and Gohda-san. I'm sure that Shannon-san, Kanon-san, and Kumasawa-san are all very agitated." "Y, yes...! Yes, I'm sure everyone is quite agitated...!" "...Are you certain? Is there anything else we can help with?" "That's why I want you to go with Krauss-san. I want you there to help him if something happens. I'd like for the rest of us to check and see that everything's locked up here. We'll head up soon, so please go on ahead." "Understood... If you need anything, please call us."Genji bowed, and Krauss nodded. Krauss also nodded to Erika, then headed up to the second floor with Genji and Gohda. In times of confusion, when only men are around, it is easy for a composed member of the opposite sex to control the initiative. Even without the detective's authority, she was able to control them quite naturally. Erika had wanted to get rid of the servants for the time being...  BGM: Suspicion  "The problem is the big window in the lounge. It looks like it doesn't even have shutters. If they smash this, we won't be able to stop them from comin' in." "Don't worry, the sound of the glass smashing will be more than enough warning. We'll turn them to Swiss cheese!" "...Quiet, please. I didn't have you stay down here to check the doors and windows. Please listen calmly to what I'm about to say."When Erika lowered her voice, Rudolf and Hideyoshi realized that she was talking about something secret, so they brought their ears closer as soon as they regained their composure...  "...In that tiny span of time, six people were killed without anyone noticing, I can't imagine that was the result of any haphazard crime. This crime was committed by someone who knew the layout of this mansion well, inside and out." "...W, well..." "...W, well, if they didn't know the inside well... B, but..."A short while ago, they had attacked Gohda, suspecting the servants of making a blunder. However, they had only thought that he had forgotten to lock up, and were attacking him for letting the mysterious culprit sneak in. They hadn't considered that one of the servants they knew so well might have taken those lives with their own hands. No, they hadn't wanted to think that. People can't easily suspect someone they know well of being a culprit... "At the time of the crime, the mansion was locked from the inside, and only those involved with the family conference existed there." "So, Aniki killed Kyrie and the others?! Or am I supposed to suspect Hideyoshi nii-san?! It's impossible... unthinkable!!" "I've never even considered suspectin' Krauss nii-san or Rudolf-kun...!! All of the siblings had excellent relationships with their spouses! True, the Ushiromiya family may be strict with discipline and money. But that doesn't mean we treasure our own families less than any other family...!" "Yes, of course I believe that. I wouldn't dream that any of you would kill your own wives."Erika had already received red truth proof from Battler that they were not the murderers. So, there was no need to argue that point... Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi... and Gohda. None of those four was the killer. And yet, Erika said this:  "Isn't it a little early to suspect Gohda-san?! Gohda-san came to bring us drinks in the dining hall during the break. He was with us for quite some time. I can't imagine he had the time to kill six people...!" "...However, he might have been able to let the actual killer into the mansion." "Precisely. Gohda-san probably didn't kill them himself. However, it's very possible that he secretly welcomed the actual murderer into the mansion."Rudolf and Hideyoshi, stunned, looked at each other. They were family. Even a wife of the siblings would be considered family. Though the siblings hated each other, it wasn't possible that they'd hate each other's wives enough to kill them. Eva and Rosa were two of the siblings, but none of the others could have had any reason to kill Natsuhi, Kyrie, Battler, or the young Maria... But... to a servant like Gohda... perhaps everyone was little more than a complete stranger...  "...I thought that too. Figured Kyrie was used to fights enough that she wouldn't get killed that easily, without resisting. That woman wouldn't hesitate to bite your finger off... It does make more sense if the culprit was someone she knew, who suddenly attacked when her guard was down..." "C, come to think of it, same goes for my Eva... She knows a dozen kinds of martial arts. She spends every day practically wishin' for some ruffian to attack her. She wouldn't have been killed off so easily...!" "...Then what about Rosa-san, in the parlor? Do you think she would be easily killed by a stranger, without resisting, while she had her only daughter with her? And this tells us something else that's important." "Somethin' important...?" "...The culprit isn't just one person, right...?" "Y, you're right... Both Rosa-san and Maria-chan were in the parlor. If they hadn't both been killed at the same time, there would have been an uproar. Since the culprit was able to do that, there can't be just one of them..." "When it comes to Maria-chan, Rosa was like a quick-to-anger mother bear. She wouldn't cower in fear, even if someone pointed a gun at her. I see, so it had to have been people who wouldn't rouse Rosa's suspicion until the last second..." "...Now we see that the idea of an unknown outsider sneaking onto the island is actually the less realistic. The culprit is someone familiar with this island. And there's more than one."The culprit is someone familiar... and there's more than one. Erika's reasoning... pointed clearly at the ones they should suspect and guard themselves against.  BGM: Stupefaction "Yes. Under the current circumstances, they are the most suspicious. The second reason to suspect them is the closed rooms with the chain locks." "Why do the chain locks make them suspicious?" "...What if there was no chain lock on the closed rooms?" "Then it wouldn't be a closed room. With a single master key, anyone could make them." "...Yes, I see... The servants had to seal them with the chains so that they wouldn't be suspected..." "Exactly. By setting the chain, they don't have to worry about being suspected. To turn it around, if the chains weren't set, they wouldn't be able to avoid suspicion since they hold the master keys." "So, the only ones with somethin' to gain from settin' the chains... are the servants..." "I'm not trying to protect them or anything, but if so, how did they actually set the chains?! Is it possible to set them from the outside?!" "Considering how they are built, I don't think that would be impossible. Have you heard this story? Apparently, some mailmen who deliver to apartment mailboxes are known to carry loops of wire with them." "Yeah, I've heard of that. Apartment mailboxes often have similar adjoinin' boxes around them for the nearby room numbers. I hear they would sometimes accidentally deliver letters to the next room over if they weren't careful." "These mailboxes are almost always locked. If you put the mail into the wrong one, you'd have no way of getting it out..."...In that situation, they are supposed to tell the owner of that mailbox about their mistake, have that person unlock the mailbox for them, and retrieve the improperly delivered mail. However, the resident of that apartment would often be out. And going through that process would be a real pain. Because of that, some mailmen would make a little tool out of wire with a loop at the end, and use that to fish the mistakenly placed postcard out through the crack of the mailbox... "...I've heard something similar from a friend of mine at a building management company. It seems they'd sometimes get drunks who locked themselves in the bathroom and fell asleep, so to get them out of there, they would stick a thin, metal tool through the crack in the door and undo the latch..." "Exactly. All industries have little tools that can easily open things that normally can't be opened. It wouldn't be particularly surprising if the servants of a mansion had something of the sort." "...G... good point..." "...Once you figured out the knack of it, you probably could set the chain from the outside by using a wire. Yes... we can't be sure that it's impossible..."...True, physically speaking, one couldn't say for sure that there existed absolutely no way to set and unset chain locks from the outside. Chain locks allow for the door to be opened a crack. If you stuck something through that crack, you should be able to manage it easily... It was very natural for them to think that.  BGM: Smile-less Soiree Though it might be possible in reality, the red truth had already declared that these closed rooms could not have been constructed from the outside. In other words, it was impossible to manipulate the chain lock from the outside. And yet. Erika was guiding their thoughts with the illusion that only the servants could have constructed the closed rooms... With an air of solemnly revealing some vital point, she steadily steered the situation in the direction she wanted. Everything about her serious face for the last few minutes... was an act. No, to put it in her words, it was a detective technique for tricking suspects...  Rudolf and Hideyoshi looked at each other again. What she was saying made sense, and it sounded as though she was calmly smoking out the most suspicious people at this point in time. With her accomplished conversation techniques, Erika was skillfully grasping the initiative. Even without the detective's authority, it is possible to control human nature to this degree. What do you think, everyone...? 
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 14:33
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| # ? May 14, 2024 09:55 |
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The profiles page has been updated.
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Jun 11, 2017 14:44
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