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I have Mario Paint in both cartridge styles. I wonder if anyone's started chronicling a list of which games had both the old and new shell variants?
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Jun 11, 2017 19:47
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Laslow posted:Getting any Nintendo system without some kind of Mario was definitely not the norm. I feel like this wasn't necessarily true for the SNES for a lot of the kids I knew, who got the Donkey Kong Country bundle. Which is pretty close to a Mario game, DK got huge there for a while, but I distinctly remember thinking Mario World looked kind of bland as a kid compared to the DKC games. Which was kind of crazy, since Super Mario Bros 3 was my very first video game and I played like hundreds of hours of it, so clearly I should have expected Mario World to be good too. Of course before DKC, everyone had a Genesis or an NES and that was kind of it. It's weird how it took the SNES so long to catch on with the kids I knew. Thank god I had a friend who's dad was a tech nerd that let me borrow Chrono Trigger whenever I wanted though.
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Jun 11, 2017 19:53
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Mario World was ancient at that point. Those Killer Instinct and DKC bundles had to fend off the PSX and Saturn until the N64 was ready which was way late to market. They were so lucky to have Rareware. They probably got a lot of sales from Sega kids once the Genesis well ran dry in '94 too.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:12
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Even on release Mario World felt strangely conservative. All the lame rear end reviewers said Earthbound looked like a NES game but Mario World is pretty bland with like four environment types. I think the funniest story coming out of launch SNES era is Nomura getting super embarrassed after hearing Yuzo Koshiro's instrument samples on Actraiser. Another thing about Mario World, the music sounds the closest to analog programmed sound on that console.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:41
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Speaking of $99 Wii, can that late model compact red top-loader one be modified for outputting component or RGB?
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Jun 11, 2017 20:43
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Am I heretic for not liking Mario World? I've given it several chances but there's something about the air control that just feels way, way too twitchy to me.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:44
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MrLonghair posted:Speaking of $99 Wii, can that late model compact red top-loader one be modified for outputting component or RGB? No, it's missing the parts to do so. The Red Wii is a very cost reduced model. It doesn't even do S-Video.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:47
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SwissCM posted:Am I heretic for not liking Mario World? I've given it several chances but there's something about the air control that just feels way, way too twitchy to me. Mario World was the first game in the series to kill momentum as a mechanic so it feels different to play than 1 and 3. They brought momentum back for Mario 64, but that's the last we saw of it until the NSMB series ... which eventually killed it again  E: Mario 2 didn't really have momentum either, but the overall gameplay was different enough that it wasn't so jarring.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:48
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al-azad posted:Even on release Mario World felt strangely conservative. All the lame rear end reviewers said Earthbound looked like a NES game but Mario World is pretty bland with like four environment types.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:19
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SwissCM posted:Am I heretic for not liking Mario World? I've given it several chances but there's something about the air control that just feels way, way too twitchy to me. Yes 
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Jun 11, 2017 21:58
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It doesn't help that Super Mario World was a huge rush job that was changed halfway into development and then buggily patched up to a releasable state. Given some more time to polish it it probably would've been a drat good game instead of just a slightly better than mediocre one.
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Jun 11, 2017 22:15
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Laslow posted:Getting any Nintendo system without some kind of Mario was definitely not the norm. I did appreciate the Killer Instinct bundle when I needed a replacement SNES and got a cool new game that I didn't already have. The Killer Instinct bundle was the one me and my brother got back in the day, wasn't till the PlayStation 1 that we started getting games even semi regularly, like for SNES the only games we owned were Killer Instinct, Donkey Kong Country 2, and a SNES adaptation of Pinocchio(which holds up surprisingly well), didn't bug us too much though since a cousin of ours who we saw very often had a very large SNES collection Had almost no SEGA exposure as a kid in comparison, Sonic was more of a cartoon & comic book character than a video game one
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Jun 11, 2017 22:25
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Thanks to the Neo Geo chat a few pages back, I decided to look into it on my softmodded Wii. I finally found an eBay scart cable that gave me RGB on my Bang & Olufsen CRT too, so it's like having an arcade monitor in my apartment! The Neo Geo games look like nothing special just testing them out on my laptop, but on a CRT it's like something from a different planet! The NES and SNES emulators look spectacular too. Now I'll have to swap to a bigger memory card, and get lots of cool fighting games.
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Jun 11, 2017 22:35
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Zamujasa posted:It doesn't help that Super Mario World was a huge rush job that was changed halfway into development and then buggily patched up to a releasable state. Given some more time to polish it it probably would've been a drat good game instead of just a slightly better than mediocre one. Do you have a link detailing this
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Jun 11, 2017 23:18
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I hadn't heard of that before either but there's some interesting stuff here: https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Super_Mario_World_(SNES) Beware of that website, it can consume a many evenings of your time.
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Jun 11, 2017 23:46
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al-azad posted:Even on release Mario World felt strangely conservative. All the lame rear end reviewers said Earthbound looked like a NES game but Mario World is pretty bland with like four environment types. At the time, Miyamoto said he deliberately kept the team from using the full colour palette or using too many of the new features like sprite scaling because he wanted to save the flashier, more obvious upgrades for later games rather than do everything upfront and then have to come up with new tricks to impress people later. In hindsight he was probably just making excuses for it being a launch title and a worked-over NES game but his excuse is still plausible, I think.
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Jun 12, 2017 00:02
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Zamujasa posted:It doesn't help that Super Mario World was a huge rush job that was changed halfway into development and then buggily patched up to a releasable state. Given some more time to polish it it probably would've been a drat good game instead of just a slightly better than mediocre one. SMW is a loving amazing game. Also its pretty obvious what SMW would be with more polish; you could already see the things they were playing with in a few unused cartridge assets. Things like red coins. SMW with more polish is SMW2. Which is also a loving amazing game. 
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Jun 12, 2017 00:03
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:At the time, Miyamoto said he deliberately kept the team from using the full colour palette or using too many of the new features like sprite scaling because he wanted to save the flashier, more obvious upgrades for later games rather than do everything upfront and then have to come up with new tricks to impress people later. In hindsight he was probably just making excuses for it being a launch title and a worked-over NES game but his excuse is still plausible, I think. It's probably a bit of both
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Jun 12, 2017 00:23
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falz posted:I hadn't heard of that before either but there's some interesting stuff here: Don't forget the main page: https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_World_(SNES) It's mostly the sheer amount of crap that got left in, but also a few things that aren't unused but signs of rush: the bottom-right corner tile in Switch Palaces, for example, isn't actually solid. Rather than go back and fix that bug, they hacked in an "invisible solid block" object and placed it there. The corner is still kind of janky because of it.  One of my good friends did quite a bit of ROM hacking on Super Mario World years ago, and most of this is just the conclusion he came to after digging through the game's code.
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Jun 12, 2017 01:39
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That's not really a sign of rush, that's just how game development is done. I mean, in a way, all game development is a "rush". You're on a budget. But taking shortcuts like that all over the place is extremely common in mainstream video games.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:11
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You will be able to play some of your old Xbox game discs on an Xbox One. Crimson Skies is the first title mentioned.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:13
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Zaphod42 posted:That's not really a sign of rush, that's just how game development is done. I mean, in a way, all game development is a "rush". You're on a budget. But taking shortcuts like that all over the place is extremely common in mainstream video games. Yeah, but SMW was a major problem for Nintendo. They actually delayed the Super Famicom launch because it wasn't ready. It got to the point where they said, "You have to finish it now so we can release our new hardware." dishwasherlove posted:You will be able to play some of your old Xbox game discs on an Xbox One. Crimson Skies is the first title mentioned. No Metal Wolf Chaos, no sale.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:14
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I'm kind of surprised to see SMW talked about like it's a mediocre game. I've put countless hours into it over the last 20 years and it's never felt rushed or buggy or anything. One of the best games ever IMO.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:24
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wa27 posted:I'm kind of surprised to see SMW talked about like it's a mediocre game. There are people who think that? 
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Jun 12, 2017 02:26
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Jose Oquendo posted:There are people who think that? Someone just posted that and they're crazy. It just had a very troubled development history.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:30
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It's a fun game but I don't particularly care for how it looks and most of the really fun stuff is front/backloaded, I feel.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:37
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Jose Oquendo posted:There are people who think that? Dude read the thread we were just talking about this Its on this page
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Jun 12, 2017 02:38
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You know what game wasn't rushed and had plenty of dev time to be fully baked and gone over? Duke Nukem Forever
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Jun 12, 2017 02:41
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Zaphod42 posted:That's not really a sign of rush, that's just how game development is done. I mean, in a way, all game development is a "rush". You're on a budget. But taking shortcuts like that all over the place is extremely common in mainstream video games. I guess that's how all game development goes now since it's all bloated and incomplete at release, but much less so back then.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:43
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Zaphod42 posted:Dude read the thread we were just talking about this I scrolled up and uh, wow. Well, everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:45
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falz posted:Compared to a bunch of other titles from tcrf of similar era, it seems to have much more crap going on. I disagree. Even in the 90s there were plenty of games that had lots of behind-the-scenes hacks. Doom and Quake had to have all kinds of janky hacks to work on certain hardware or to make certain things faster or whatever. Its a big thing recently that games are released as "early access" or even "finished" but still basically beta state, compared to before they'd Q&A them to hell and back because they couldn't patch. But that doesn't mean that there weren't TONS of invisible behind the scenes hacks. As long as it passes Q&A, its fine. You don't always go back and re-design a whole game engine just because you changed something during development. Its not worth it. That said: Random Stranger posted:Yeah, but SMW was a major problem for Nintendo. They actually delayed the Super Famicom launch because it wasn't ready. It got to the point where they said, "You have to finish it now so we can release our new hardware." That's pretty definitive if there's some source on this. If they had to push it out, they had to push it out. But I wouldn't say stuff like that block are indicative of a rushed game per se.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:46
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Zaphod42 posted:I disagree. Even in the 90s there were plenty of games that had lots of behind-the-scenes hacks. Doom and Quake had to have all kinds of janky hacks to work on certain hardware or to make certain things faster or whatever.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:56
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All I was saying was it just wasn't as flashy as Sonic. Sonic looked amazing in screenshots and video footage, whereas SMW simply looked like a more colorful Mario 3. It was stark enough to give Sega a chance to compete on that basis alone, regardless of how good SMW was at pretty much everything else. Now when you compare gameplay, Sonic wasn't even in the same league. SMW isn't perfect, but it's way higher on the list of best platformers of all time than any Genesis Sonic.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:59
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falz posted:Isn't this just the design of the game to get it to do neato tricks? Vs say.. leaving a bunch of unused graphics on the ROM because they poo poo canned the level they were to be used on. Eh sometimes, but not allways. All kinds of games ship with unused content on the ROM or disc. Ocarina of Time has unused levels, Goldeneye has test levels with broken height map data, GTA had the infamous "Hot Coffee" fiasco... Its just not worth the time to "properly" fix/remove it. Until somebody goes snooping in your code and data files nobody would probably notice.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:02
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Smb3 was my favorite game and was immensely disappointed by smw. I was there. This is is how I felt.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:03
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Zaphod42 posted:That's pretty definitive if there's some source on this. If they had to push it out, they had to push it out. But I wouldn't say stuff like that block are indicative of a rushed game per se. Both of the books I have that are the history of Nintendo mention it (Game Over and Super Mario), but the books aren't really what I'd call completely accurate.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:04
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Zaphod42 posted:Eh sometimes, but not allways. All kinds of games ship with unused content on the ROM or disc. Ocarina of Time has unused levels, Goldeneye has test levels with broken height map data, GTA had the infamous "Hot Coffee" fiasco... Yeah all of those games came out waaaaay after 16 bit carts that only had a few megabits of rom. Anyway, that site is great and it's cool that people go decipher all of that stuff.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:17
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falz posted:Yeah all of those games came out waaaaay after 16 bit carts that only had a few megabits of rom. Doesn't matter that they only had a few megabits, the ROM chips would only get manufactured in certain sizes. If you studiously cleaned up every bit of unused things, all that means is your extra space is blank and if you want to use something in the next build you have to put it back in the image manually. Much simpler to simply leave it in and overwrite it when it becomes necessary to do so. Laslow posted:All I was saying was it just wasn't as flashy as Sonic. Sonic looked amazing in screenshots and video footage, whereas SMW simply looked like a more colorful Mario 3. It was stark enough to give Sega a chance to compete on that basis alone, regardless of how good SMW was at pretty much everything else. Sonic 1 came out 8 months after Super Mario World's original release, and nearly 3 whole years after the Megadrive was originally released. Programmers simply had a lot more experience with the Genesis hardware when they were making Sonic.
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Jun 12, 2017 03:29
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Super Mario World Haters Vacate. I mean, that's like hating donuts and freedom. Do you hate donuts and freedom?
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Jun 12, 2017 03:42
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Mario World is an expertly crafted game but I have no real passion for it and Mario 3 is better in like every way
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Jun 12, 2017 03:47
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