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Dutch Harpoon
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Jun 12, 2017 04:23
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 09:00 |
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Night10194 posted:That sounds like the Dutch's problem to a far greater extent than it does us. Except the goal is to kill the sub, and as everyone seems to agree, we're really reliant on the Dutch for the heavy lifting for that.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:25
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Joke's on anyone who thinks the goal of Heavy Metal is actually killing the sub rather than generating ill-defined laughs.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:30
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Has anyone posted a rundown of the flaws of heavy metal and how the flaws can be compensated for?
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Jun 12, 2017 04:31
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xthetenth posted:Joke's on anyone who thinks the goal of Heavy Metal is actually killing the sub rather than generating ill-defined laughs. The people who pay us might disagree.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:32
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HEAVY METAL
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Jun 12, 2017 04:41
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RandomPauI posted:Has anyone posted a rundown of the flaws of heavy metal and how the flaws can be compensated for? Short form: - CAP aircraft aren't actually airborne, so it's hard to respond to threats - No AEW of any kind, so we don't get advance warning to launch the above - No real contingency plan for if the submarine is not in fact crewed by the most gullible sailors in existence #1 and #2 are pretty easy to fix - I actually went over this earlier. Launch with two Phantoms on max A/A, two Gripens on max A/A on standby (or reverse if you want, it's probably irrelevant). Rotate out when the active pair have to land to refuel/etc. You'll need a tanker airborne to keep these guys in the air for a notable length of time, so send up the KC-135 and swap it for the VC.10 if it runs out of gas, which it might. Hopefully we won't run out of quick turnarounds on the fighters. Keep a second pair of Phantoms on max A/A on standby for emergencies. Launch with the S-100 and the Reaper. If at any time neither are up (non-infinite endurance), order one of the active fighters to radar active. Leave three Tornadoes with Sea Eagles on standby in case we suddenly have a need to sink a boat, but I'm not especially worried about that. The third is a lot harder to plan for, but honestly our ASW is so anemic I'd rather place my trust in the absurd plan anyway. Maybe drop sonobouys in an arc closing in on the bay after a while in the hopes of pinning the sub in.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:42
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RandomPauI posted:Has anyone posted a rundown of the flaws of heavy metal and how the flaws can be compensated for? The biggest one in my opinion is the fundamental concept of it. For it to even have a prayer of working, the submarine has to be crewed by gibbering idiots. Small, shallow bays are not places subs want to be, you're restricted in depth and where you can manoeuvre. Subs are all about avoiding detection, they're really vulnerable once they're spotted. If you're in a shallow bay, you're likely so close to the surface that you can be seen with the eye. That's even assuming that they actually bite on this, it's so daft. There is, in my opinion, no compensating for this, not now that it's moved into voting. Another significant flaw is that we can't see incoming aircraft until they've either gone radars on to provide guidance for their missiles or until the missiles they've launched have gone radars on. That puts a significant dampener on the reaction time for the standby aircraft. I don't think this one could be fixed either, it's a pretty big change to the plan now that it's gone into voting.
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Jun 12, 2017 04:45
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Dutch Harpoon Sorry Beer, but having a plan that relies on thr enemy being suicidally gullible just inst that viable IMHO. Plus Dutch Harpoon lets us acomplish some tertiary objectives.
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Jun 12, 2017 05:10
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Dutch Harpoon
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Jun 12, 2017 05:22
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Dutch harpoon
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Jun 12, 2017 05:36
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As it stands, I'm going with Dutch Harpoon. The lack of a CAP for Heavy Metal is what really seals it for me. Assuming that's fixed, I'd be more split, but I like to at least pretend to prefer professionalism. Also, I have found the worst (missile armed) bote in the entire game. Feast your eyes upon the truly god awful Floreal. A "ship" that was commissioned by France in 1992, it is effective at nothing but bottom priority flag waving duties. For weapon systems, it has a standard 100mm gun, 2 Exocet IIs, and Mistrals that were ADDED in 1996. What's that? Where's the ASW kit? There isn't one. Adding to that, there's no sonar system at all, so any frogmen or stray sea mines are going to ruin your day, and good luck trying to catch the more resourceful smugglers. Radar is better in that it exists, but it has a pathetic range of 60 nm. Speaking of electronics, it's also lacking in any form of actual datalink, that's not a huge issue considering just how bad the rest of it is. The true cap stone though is the speed; topping out at a whopping 20 knots. That's right, it can be outrun by cruising container ships. It's sole reason for existence is to be a sea bunker from which to operate a usually unarmed chopper from. The only reason they're not a coast guard vessel is that they're stationed in rear end-end of nowhere territorial holdings. The gun is essentially production surplus from every other ship they have, but the inclusion of the Exocets is completely pointless. Ironically, it might be the only vessel that has an actual use for Mistral 1s; discouraging casual terrorist attacks and warding off insufficiently persistent news choppers.
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Jun 12, 2017 05:48
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Also, Heavy Metal is basically outside the mechanics of the game engine and is more RPG mission than anything else. If this was Twilight 2000 I'd be on board.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:03
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omegasgundam posted:
Before I clicked link I thought it was 500 tons and I though "yeah that's bad but it's small so  "Then I saw that it was 2600 tons. 
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Jun 12, 2017 06:04
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RandomPauI posted:Has anyone posted a rundown of the flaws of heavy metal and how the flaws can be compensated for? Where to begin? 1. In game terms, the plan relies on a chain of highly-specific scripted events. Some of them might not work in the CMANO engine. And scripting that much stuff creates extra hassle and work for Yooper. 2. It assumes the submarine is working for AngerPeace and so will care about the whales. We have zero evidence to confirm this. It could very well be a BSNC-operated submarine , in which case they probably won't give a poo poo about a few old orcas and won't take the bait. 3. It assumes that the submarine will be able to get the leaked intel about the "TLC whalehunting." If it is an AngerPeace sub, they've probably got very little contact with the outside world (no internet access, only able to make occasionally radio contact). So even if they care about the orcas, they might not even get the intel. 4. It assumes the submarine crew are morons. For one, whale song is extremely hard to duplicate with speakers. There's an ultrasonic range that human ears can't hear (and most commercial speaks don't make). But a submarine's passive sonar can hear that sound range. If the crew hear "whale song" that doesn't look right, they're going to get suspicious. Submarine sonar operators know what whales sound like, especially if they're working for whale-huggers like AngerPeace. Two, the crew will come to periscope depth as they approach the island. They're going to see the frigates, the Atlantique and the helos on radar and they're going to realize its a trap. Plus, they'll be able to see the ZSU batteries on shore. They're going to get wise to our plan and then gently caress off. And Heavy Metal has no contingency plan to deal with that.... 5. It has no Plan B if the submarine doesn't show up. No search areas. No rules of engagement. Nothing. 6. It has no airborne CAP. And the Alert 15 force of two Gripens is pathetically weak. Su-30s can launch, get to altitude, fire Alamos, kill off the Atlantique and the choppers and gently caress off before our measly two Gripens can get airborne to oppose them. 7. It has no airborne AEW. Without the Argus, we won't be able to see BSA fighters until they're on top of us. The radar can also do surface search for warships. 8. It has no Prowler support. That lets the submarine and any hostile aircraft use their radar with impunity. EW is our biggest edge and we're just throwing it away. The Prowler is also an important ELINT platform that can sniff out the sub and aircraft if they use radar. Bottom line, it's asking to miss the the sub, get a bunch of planes and ships wrecked, and piss off our employers and the Dutch. When (not "if") it fails it'll be a huge blow to our reputation and bottom line. Plus, if you want a laugh, it's not like Dutch Harpoon doesn't have a fun set of sub-stealing, helocasting shenanagins all its own. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 06:05
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If we really want to get stupid absurdist comedy in this LP, we need reassurances from Yooper than stupid plans can actually work. And many of us would need a guaranty that any off script events would be manageable, and that there's no hard failure outcomes for the RNG to screw us over with.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:24
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Yeah, I'm all about actually playing to win, not to lose. Dutch Harpoon is my vote.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:24
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Dutch Harbor seems like the only sane plan. As awesome as Heavy Metal sounds, the consequences will be terrible for us when it inevitably goes poorly.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:26
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Dutch Harpoon Effectiveness before laughs. Both if possible, but definitely effectiveness first.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:35
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Realbarrow posted:Dutch Harpoon Sorry, Heavy Metal. But since they both (ideally) lead to a captured sub, and Dutch Harpoon has some safety valves, I have to vote that. However, I say we compromise and force the Bacarruda Briefing to have Vocaloid J-pop in the background (say, this), and generally use J-pop whenever possible regarding messages about the sub (and that we've found the sub).
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Jun 12, 2017 06:44
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Dutch Harpoon. It has a chance of capture but also has backupsin place thigs don't work.
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Jun 12, 2017 06:54
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Dutch Harpoon sounds good to me
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Jun 12, 2017 07:36
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Dutch Harpoon.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:43
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I may have miscounted due to posting mobile, but as of 14 votes for Operation Heavy Metal 25 votes for Operation Dutch Harpoon Mercocracy works!  EDIT: Updated because H-G Human/Mechanical Resources values the input of each and every member of the Hayard-Gunnes family. Realbarrow fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 12, 2017 07:46
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Dutch Harpoon
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Jun 12, 2017 08:40
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Heavy Metal Let's Rockeye out with our cock out!
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Jun 12, 2017 08:52
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Dutch Harpoon
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Jun 12, 2017 11:10
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I finally caught up! Please don't let this LP devolve into infighting guys, it's really good. I'd like to sign up as a pilot/flying crewmember callsign Splode. I don't think we ever resolved the death flag thing, but if I am in a plane and the cockpit gets destroyed then I am absolutely dead. voting for Dutch Harpoon
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Jun 12, 2017 11:15
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Heavy Metal Have some faith in Yooper and the RNG.
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Jun 12, 2017 11:50
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This is a reminder that Yooper made a poster for Heavy Metal. I don't see one for Dutch Harpoon. 
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Jun 12, 2017 12:08
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Splode's post reminds me, I'd like to sign up as a helo or large bomber pilot, callsign "Pipeline". Because even the personnel & logistics guys at Hayard-Gunnes are laid-off military/airline/bush pilots waiting to get back in the cockpit. (Yes, I am aware we don't have any proper bombers yet. I plan to lobby hard to constructively address this at an unspecified but appropriate future juncture.  )In the meantime, I'll be happy to fly Cobbie's Mi-8 or whatever other whirlybirds need driving. No permadeath for now, bitte! Can't be witnessed and ride eternal without the right steed, you know?
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Jun 12, 2017 12:17
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:This is a reminder that Yooper made a poster for Heavy Metal. I don't see one for Dutch Harpoon. 
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Jun 12, 2017 12:56
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Oh sure, now you decide to be equal. We both know where your true feelings lie.
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Jun 12, 2017 13:04
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:We both know where your true feelings lie. Dogtatorship.
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Jun 12, 2017 13:26
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Yooper posted:Dogtatorship. Yes, in case of a tie I would aprove!
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Jun 12, 2017 13:49
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Stago Lego posted:Yes, in case of a tie I would aprove!
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Jun 12, 2017 13:57
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Sorry guys, it might not be sensible, or even possible, plan, but I want to see how will Yooper spin the in-game fallout if it wins. HEAVY METAL
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Jun 12, 2017 14:02
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Unfortunately Boring but Practical has like a 2:1 advantage, so I don't see any daugury in our immediate future. Who knows, though.
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Jun 12, 2017 14:02
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Davin Valkri posted:Sorry, Heavy Metal. But since they both (ideally) lead to a captured sub, and Dutch Harpoon has some safety valves, I have to vote that. I agree. Maybe make it K-pop instead though, since the main in-theater source of terrible Asian pop is SMARF.
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Jun 12, 2017 14:22
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Quickly, retrofit daugury into Dutch Harpoon.
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Jun 12, 2017 14:23
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