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enraged_camel posted:If Kushner was given financing for his overextended investments, it might constitute a gift... for Kushner. I don't think the Enoulments Clause applies to him. Although it would make Trump bad by proxy. he has an official job of senior advisor to the president
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Jun 13, 2017 02:56
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skylined! posted:I just ...won't do anything. I wonder if there's a category for me, someone who is part "Nothing matters" and part "I hope everything matters".
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Jun 13, 2017 02:57
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Ularg posted:...won't do anything. the shouldn't post category
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Jun 13, 2017 03:01
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Ularg posted:...won't do anything. Hope, the quintessential delusion of the condemned.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:03
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skylined! posted:I just Finally a topic I would probably agree with Clarence Thomas on.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:03
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awesmoe posted:he has an official job of senior advisor to the president I mean is he *officially* a federal employee? There was a lot of objection to Ivanka getting an office and staff at the White House because she isn't on the federal payroll so I'm asking if Jared has a similar deal.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:05
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Nothus posted:They can't turn on Trump too early lest they torpedo their window to ram through horrific legislation and risk a primary by some crazed Trumpstaffel. You're right, but they're performing a twisted calculus here. The worse things get, the more likely they are to lose their majorities, and the sooner. At some point, they may calculate that they're more likely to get things done with two years of President Pence + R Congress than Trump + R Congress that may become a half-D Congress in 2018.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:06
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Party Plane Jones posted:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/28/1520916/-Morning-Digest-This-is-the-worst-polling-debacle-we-ve-ever-seen-by-a-huge-margin Hahaha drat. I mean who knows, there are only two polls of the SC race with high undecided voters so there could always be a surprise. The DCCC kicked in $275,000 compared to the $5 million they're putting into GA-6.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:09
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Google Butt posted:the shouldn't post category Well then I'm glad I'm in your company. 
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Jun 13, 2017 03:10
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Ularg posted:...won't do anything. oh, no, just trying to establish that that is the word. it's not the annulment clause or the emoji clause or any of the other words I keep seeing people make up nothing matters until everything matters. we are just temporarily embarrassed seekers of justice.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:10
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Cheekio posted:Finally a topic I would probably agree with Clarence Thomas on. Oh poo poo that's an interesting question isn't it? Especially in the nightmare universe where RBG dies of polonium poisoning.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:10
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Why's almost no one bringing up the 25th Amendment in the media? Surely there's enough precedent already to at least call for a mental evaluation on Trump's dementia or similar? I'm not well versed on constitutional law, so does anyone know how that'd actually be able to happen in a real world scenario? The guy's completely self-destructive at this point.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:12
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enraged_camel posted:I mean is he *officially* a federal employee? There was a lot of objection to Ivanka getting an office and staff at the White House because she isn't on the federal payroll so I'm asking if Jared has a similar deal. he has an official job of senior advisor to the president. I dont know how much clearer i cna be.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:13
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pepito sanchez posted:Why's almost no one bringing up the 25th Amendment in the media? Surely there's enough precedent already to at least call for a mental evaluation on Trump's dementia or similar? The twenty fifth amendment is serious stuff. It's not for political coups. Incompetence isn't disability. It's for when the president is in the hospital unconscious, not for when he does things you do not like. If you politicize the twenty fifth amendment, it may not be there when we need it.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:14
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Also Pence and the Cabinet were openly praising Trump on tv earlier today, which may have been the whole point. The 25th amendment is a fantasy.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:16
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awesmoe posted:he has an official job of senior advisor to the president. I dont know how much clearer i cna be. Oh I see, it's an actual position https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Advisor_to_the_President_of_the_United_States
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Jun 13, 2017 03:17
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VitalSigns posted:Hahaha drat. $275,000 is still a poo poo ton of money.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:18
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enraged_camel posted:Oh I see, it's an actual position Ivanka's page hasnt been updated but I thought I remembered seeing that she was also official, now. She got an office in the west wing and some stuff and then at some stage they were like "fuckit" and gave her a job. I think.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:18
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I don't entirely agree, but I am very slightly more nervous than I was before, because one more voice of reason may slip into hysterical laughter and screaming. Oh, I went off the cliff months ago. There's just no point in screaming during the long fall. Overall things have been going a lot better than I thought they would, mostly because Trump and the Republicans have been more self-destructive than I could have imagined, but there's a functional limit on that and we seem to be approaching it. It looks like they're actually getting their poo poo together to actually pass the health care genocide bill (and my use of the term "genocide" is deliberate and considered, not rhetorical), and if Mueller's investigation is torpedoed I don't see how they're held to account before 2018; we need a solid investigation of the russian hacking before 2018; and I'm not sure our democracy is strong enough to last if we can't retake the House with sanity in 2018.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:19
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pepito sanchez posted:Why's almost no one bringing up the 25th Amendment in the media? Surely there's enough precedent already to at least call for a mental evaluation on Trump's dementia or similar? Trump will obviously contest it, and it requires two-thirds of both houses to override him. It's a higher vote threshold than impeachment.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:19
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Ogmius815 posted:The twenty fifth amendment is serious stuff. It's not for political coups. Incompetence isn't disability. It's for when the president is in the hospital unconscious, not for when he does things you do not like. If you politicize the twenty fifth amendment, it may not be there when we need it. It is! Just not in America. 
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Jun 13, 2017 03:20
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enraged_camel posted:If Kushner was given financing for his overextended investments, it might constitute a gift... for Kushner. I don't think the Enoulments Clause applies to him. Although it would make Trump bad by proxy. That is why he has the person with the best knowledge of criminal law helping with the investigation, and not a bunch of posters on a dead gay comedy forum. If someone takes a loan from a bank that is at very favorable terms, that is probably a type of bribe, and there is probably 150 years of case law on what type of terms are favorable enough to include a bribe. If Kushner indeed had a gift given to him, in the form of a favorable loan, then he was acting as a foreign agent, and was committing a crime by not registering. But all of that is probably hard to prove, and needs a really sharp and knowledgable legal mind, which is why the investigation is going on so long and needs a former head of the FBI to head it. Also, from a counterintelligence perspective, the burden of proof is probably different from a criminal perspective. Someone who has taken a lot of loans from foreign banks, even if it is not provably a crime, probably would not be eligible for even a normal intelligence clearance.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It looks like they're actually getting their poo poo together to actually pass the health care genocide bill (and my use of the term "genocide" is deliberate and considered, not rhetorical) It's definitely not genocide, wtf is with this forum and calling everything genocide.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:21
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Rewatching the first episode of West Wing, and the scandal of the week is so heartwarming. "Lady, the god you pray to is too busy being indicted for tax fraud!"
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Jun 13, 2017 03:21
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Ogmius815 posted:The twenty fifth amendment is serious stuff. It's not for political coups. Incompetence isn't disability. It's for when the president is in the hospital unconscious, not for when he does things you do not like. If you politicize the twenty fifth amendment, it may not be there when we need it. The 25th is perfectly applicable here and its use would absolutely be appropriate. The problem is that it was drafted assuming an unconscious president not one whose competency is a subject of potential argument. It would turn into a giant clusterfuck as Trump contested it and the political fallout among Trump's base would be immense.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:21
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Yeah if there are the votes to use the 25th there are the votes to impeach him Edit: Unless he has a legitimate medical issue such as a stroke, in which case you might use the 25th to quietly dispose of him while he was ill Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 03:21
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Anyway the reason I hope Trump fires Mueller is two-fold: 1) If Mueller stays, his investigation can take a long time to complete. Like, a year or more. That's too long imo. 2) There is always the chance that Mueller doesn't find anything, or what he finds is too minor. In which case that would be seriously bad news for Democrats But if he fires Mueller, that would be insta-confirmation that he is guilty. Even if Congress still does nothing, the resulting leaks from career officials would quickly bring him down.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:22
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Sinteres posted:It's definitely not genocide, wtf is with this forum and calling everything genocide. If the House health care bill passes in its current form, 23 million people will lose their health insurance, and of those, many millions will die. That's not me saying that, that's the CBO. Medicaid pays for two thirds of all nursing home care in the country. Nobody is in a nursing home who doesn't need that level of care to stay alive. The proposed Medicaid cuts, by themselves, are a genocide upon those who are simultaneously poor and old. I suppose you could call it a decimation if you were being very technical, but nobody uses that term technically any more, and a tenth is an understatement. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 03:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If the House health care bill passes in its current form, 23 million people will lose their health insurance, and of those, many millions will die. That's not me saying that, that's the CBO. Poor and old isn't a race, and some people will die in the long run as an indirect result of a policy isn't genocide.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:24
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Ogmius815 posted:The twenty fifth amendment is serious stuff. It's not for political coups. Incompetence isn't disability. It's for when the president is in the hospital unconscious, not for when he does things you do not like. If you politicize the twenty fifth amendment, it may not be there when we need it. Incompetence to the point of threatening the Republic is actually a perfect use for the 25th. This isn't "doing things you do not like".
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Jun 13, 2017 03:24
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VitalSigns posted:Trump will obviously contest it, and it requires two-thirds of both houses to override him. It's a higher vote threshold than impeachment. That clears up the legality question. Thanks. Welp! I'm not expecting much from Sessions' hearing tomorrow, but if he actually fires Mueller? Even telling people he's thinking about it should bring down his approval rating. He's obsessing on an investigation he's been told has nothing to do with him personally It'd be copying Nixon's actions, and build on the already damning obstruction allegations from Comey. I'd genuinely be surprised if non-Newt-types don't condemn him for it to the point where impeachment does become possible.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:24
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What's the expectation for tomorrow's testimony from sessions? We had a pretty good idea with Comey since that document came out the day before he spoke. But his testimony in person was a bit more damning, which was nice. Sessions appears way more buddy-buddy with trump so he'll probably lie through the whole thing? Can he get in trouble for lying?
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Jun 13, 2017 03:25
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Sinteres posted:Poor and old isn't a race, and some people will die in the long run as an indirect result of a policy isn't genocide. lmao @ thinking 23 million people is "some people"
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Jun 13, 2017 03:25
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Sinteres posted:Poor and old isn't a race, and some people will die in the long run as an indirect result of a policy isn't genocide. Is poverty suddenly not correlated with race any more? Yes. "indirect." See, I'm gonna stop paying for the care that's keeping you alive, but I'm not killing you! Poverty is! The deaths will be a direct result of the policy change, not an indirect one.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:26
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Sinteres posted:Poor and old isn't a race, and some people will die in the long run as an indirect result of a policy isn't genocide. A disproportionate number of the poor also happen to be minorities. It is not an accidental or indirect result.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:27
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Sinteres posted:Poor and old isn't a race, and some people will die in the long run as an indirect result of a policy isn't genocide. I'm sure that the corpses care a great deal about this semantic distinction you've discovered.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:27
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Low Desert Punk posted:lmao @ thinking 23 million people is "some people" 23 million people aren't going to die because of it, ,jfc. I hate the Republican healthcare plan too, but this is obvious hyperbole.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:27
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Ogmius815 posted:The twenty fifth amendment is serious stuff. It's not for political coups. Incompetence isn't disability. It's for when the president is in the hospital unconscious, not for when he does things you do not like. If you politicize the twenty fifth amendment, it may not be there when we need it. That is not clear from the text of the amendment itself: The 25th Amendment, Section 4 posted:Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" are the only words used, and it doesn't specify that this has to be due to obvious medical reasons. I mean, the intent is probably a medical emergency, but it doesn't say that he has to be unconscious, just unable to do his job. The political objection, that it isn't likely that a majority of the cabinet and a supermajority of both houses of the legislature are going to go along with this, is a better objection than it is legally impossible to use the 25th for incompetence.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:27
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Sinteres posted:23 million people aren't going to die because of it, ,jfc. I hate the Republican healthcare plan too, but this is obvious hyperbole. Nope, sorry. 23 million people is the short term estimate of health insurance losses. Long term death toll is actually likely to be much higher. (though admittedly that depends on how long a term you're discussing). Depending on how you slice the numbers, it's tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dead over the short term, millions over the long term. Personally, I think most of those estimates are under-estimating the death toll dramatically, because Medicaid patients tend to have more severe medical needs than the population norm (due to poverty etc.). Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 03:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Nope, sorry. 23 million people is the short term estimate of health insurance losses. Long term death toll is actually likely to be much higher. You realize not everyone who loses health insurance dies as a result, certainly? Call it whatever you want, but the idea that you're being coolly rational rather than provocative when you call it genocide is absurd.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:30
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