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Hey, dudes, how about we all just acknowledge that Republicans are effectively committing mass murder through policy and move on? The terminology you use doesn't loving matter.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:44
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Trabisnikof posted:Lol who cares about a piddly million dead when climate change will kill billions if we don't change our ways. Zero out the planet's carbon footprint tomorrow and we'd still hit +3C.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:45
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Ogmius815 posted:Look guys I hate Trump too but you're dead wrong on the twenty-fifth amendment. Incompetence is a political question, the twenty-fifth amendment isn't meant to deal with that. Unless you think any president who makes policy you disagree with is "disabled", but that's an insane interpretation that would destroy the Twenty-fifth, an important part of the constitution for continuity of the executive. Once again, this isn't a question of doing things people don't like. If a President is compromised by a foreign power and demonstrates willingness to go against his oath of office, exactly what sort of circumstances would the 25th be applicable for? This isn't calling for the 25th because he made a bad trade deal.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:45
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Low Desert Punk posted:Once again, this isn't a question of doing things people don't like. If a President is compromised by a foreign power and demonstrates willingness to go against his oath of office, exactly what sort of circumstances would the 25th be applicable for? This isn't calling for the 25th because he made a bad trade deal. That's what impeachment is for.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:46
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If the Senate goes for the 7 year medicaid phase out, or really anything more than the 3 year, there's a possibility of there never being a phase out. If Democrats retake power in 2020, I think restoring that would be a day one item.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:47
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mdemone posted:Zero out the planet's carbon footprint tomorrow and we'd still hit +3C. In fact things get worse the longer we let things go. Just because we are locked into a billion deaths now doesn't mean we can't cause another few billion if we keep at it.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:47
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awesmoe posted:the key word is deliberate and while this isnt an argument I'm going to win here, the deliberate purpose of the ahca isn't to kill poor people (that's just a side effect of making rich people richer. If they could get more money by not killing people, most of them would take that option, because it would be easier to get votes for) It's deliberate in the sense that they know it's going to happen and they're doing it anyway. If I fire a gun into a crowd because I like the sounds guns make, I may not specifically intend the death of the person my bullet strikes, but I still killed them deliberately.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:47
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So let's say Trump fires Mueller. What do you think the public opinion of that would be? I already see plenty of Twitter chatter pre-justifying his firing, saying he violated a code of conduct by having known Comey, therefore he must be fired. Think that'll catch on, or is this going to be one of those "a few loud voices on Twitter make it sound like it has popular support but to everyone else it looks as sketchy as it is" things?
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Jun 13, 2017 03:47
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It doesn't have to be genocide to be bad
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Jun 13, 2017 03:47
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EwokEntourage posted:It doesn't have to be genocide to be bad I completely agree.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:48
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Low Desert Punk posted:Once again, this isn't a question of doing things people don't like. If a President is compromised by a foreign power and demonstrates willingness to go against his oath of office, exactly what sort of circumstances would the 25th be applicable for? This isn't calling for the 25th because he made a bad trade deal. It is just a question of doing things you don't like. It isn't clear Trump is compromised by a foreign power at this time. He could just be an idiot who can't shut up. Even if strong evidence existed that he was compromised, it would be easier and more legitimate to use the impeachment procedure.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:48
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Trabisnikof posted:In fact things get worse the longer we let things go. Just because we are locked into a billion deaths now doesn't mean we can't cause another few billion if we keep at it. gently caress that lets go for the high score.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:49
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Xae posted:Genocide requires targeting a class of people for extermination. It is targeted at nonwhite Americans. Trump was elected on the promise of continuing and intensifying america's long genocide against black citizens. The deaths will break down along class lines, which are race lines in the us.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:49
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Sinteres posted:I said it matters, it's just not loving genocide. Stupid slapfights demanding people to use incorrect terminology or they're the real Hitlers are unbelievably stupid. It's a concerted effort to kill a particular group of people. You're being annoying and pedantic.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:50
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https://twitter.com/charliearchy/status/874442553919062017
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Jun 13, 2017 03:50
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"23 million people lose the ability to pay for their medicine or receive treatment for their conditions. lol no one gunna be ded" I hope you never have to go cold turkey on SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, or MAOIs because you can't afford the medication or afford the copay to get a new refill prescription.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:51
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Party Plane Jones posted:It's not like Republicans will be setting up death panels oh wait Look at that loving flabby sack of poo poo standing in the middle to the right of Paul Ryan. loving get a heart attack you gently caress.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:52
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Ularg posted:I hope you never have to go cold turkey on SSRIs, SNRIs, TCAs, or MAOIs because you can't afford the medication or afford the copay to get a new refill prescription. Thank you friend, I'm glad your charity extends to those who disagree with you on word choice while agreeing with you that the policy is loving terrible.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:52
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Sinteres posted:Thank you friend, I'm glad your charity extends to those who disagree with you on word choice while agreeing with you that the policy is loving terrible. so much for the tolerant left
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Jun 13, 2017 03:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's deliberate in the sense that they know it's going to happen and they're doing it anyway. If I fire a gun into a crowd because I like the sounds guns make, I may not specifically intend the death of the person my bullet strikes, but I still killed them deliberately. quote:By ‘genocide’ we mean the destruction of a nation or of an ethnic group. This new word, coined by the author to denote an old practice in its modern development, is made from the ancient Greek word genos (race, tribe) and the Latin cide (killing)…. Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. Genocide is directed against the national group as an entity, and the actions involved are directed against individuals, not in their individual capacity, but as members of the national group” (80)
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Jun 13, 2017 03:54
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Sinteres posted:Genocide's an important word which has a specific meaning and shouldn't be thrown around lightly. Callous indifference and partial reversion to the healthcare status quo of eight years ago isn't genocide. Is Obamacare genocide because it's not single payer and could save more lives if it were? Obamacare was an improvement over the then-status quo, you incredible cretin.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Judges are way more independent than congressmen. Unelected judges might be, but elected judges are another matter entirely and I wish direct elections for the judiciary were outlawed at every level. Sinteres posted:So my prediction that John McCain would do the right thing when push came to shove may be changing.  John McCain is truly the embodiment of American Exceptionalism. The son of greater men which allowed him to (repeatedly) fail upwards in life when a normal person would've crashed and burned. He and Trump are kindred spirits.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:54
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Sinteres posted:Thank you friend, I'm glad your charity extends to those who disagree with you on word choice while agreeing with you that the policy is loving terrible. Well I wasn't really focusing on the use of the word Genocide. Sinteres posted:23 million people aren't going to die because of it, ,jfc. I hate the Republican healthcare plan too, but this is obvious hyperbole. Sinteres posted:You realize not everyone who loses health insurance dies as a result, certainly? Call it whatever you want, but the idea that you're being coolly rational rather than provocative when you call it genocide is absurd.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:54
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It's not genocide to try to kill a class of people it's only genocide if you succeed.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:55
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enraged_camel posted:Obamacare was an improvement over the then-status quo, you incredible cretin. I realize that, but not doing more indirectly killed a lot of people. I'm obviously not saying it's genocide, I'm just saying if AHCA has about double the number of uninsured as Obamacare, that means Obamacare is about equally as bad compared to single payer as AHCA is to Obamacare.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:56
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do you guys think donald trump likes rap music?
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Jun 13, 2017 03:56
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I think single payer is the only ethical form of health insurance, but I also think unethical health insurance isn't the same as putting people in death camps for being Jewish.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:57
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https://twitter.com/yashar/status/874451593017544704 "What's his process?" Hmm, yes, truly a compelling question 
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Jun 13, 2017 03:58
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People should shut up about genocide ACHA bullshit. You clearly all agree about the important points and these stupid arguments over semantics is getting in the way of me watching the world burn. Edit: birds posted:do you guys think donald trump likes rap music?
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Jun 13, 2017 03:58
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Evil Fluffy posted:Unelected judges might be, but elected judges are another matter entirely and I wish direct elections for the judiciary were outlawed at every level. McCain only crashed and burned the one time, really.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:58
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/yashar/status/874451593017544704 I think the idea that bad ideas die when exposed to light has been pretty firmly debunked at this point. gently caress anyone who gives Alex Jones air time.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:59
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Sinteres posted:You realize not everyone who loses health insurance dies as a result, certainly? Call it whatever you want, but the idea that you're being coolly rational rather than provocative when you call it genocide is absurd.  Death comes for us all, therefore the AHCA kills 0 additional people. Why are you getting so worked up about what's really after all just a timetable adjustment.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:59
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awesmoe posted:Basically this: Here's the thing: I live in the South and I've lost count of the number of times I've heard "Democrats" and "Blacks" uses as interchangeable synonyms, often by elected politicians. These cuts are part and parcel of the same ongoing denial of civil and human rights that gave us Jim Crow. quote: You start out in 1954 by saying, “friend of the family, friend of the family, friend of the family.” By 1968 you can’t say “friend of the family”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “friend of the family, friend of the family.” Now, you can argue about whether or not that's still genocide when we've abstracted it out into purely economic terms. And you can debate whether or not Jim Crow or Apartheid counted as "genocide." Hell, you can even intellectually debate whether or not slavery was a "genocide." But it's all on the same spectrum. It's arguing over whether or not lavender is still purple.
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Jun 13, 2017 03:59
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I'm constantly amazed at the silly poo poo that goons can fight about. And no, the AHCA is not genocide, that is loving absurd.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:00
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Ogmius815 posted:You are correct that "disability" is not defined in the amendment. What constitutes disability is also a political question. You could use the twenty-fifth to get rid of presidents that are merely incompetent. But it would be very unwise. You shouldn't politicize a part of the constitution put in place to deal with things like assassinations and terrorist attacks. So, where would you draw the line at what constitutes "unable to discharge the duties of the office"? You agree that someone who is unconscious is unable by the meaning of this amendment. What about someone who is conscious, but unable to perform anything more than normal life tasks? Like, someone who is conscious, can put on their shoes and make toast, but has trouble focusing on anything beyond their immediate surroundings? Would you consider that as being someone who is unable to discharge the duties of the office?
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Jun 13, 2017 04:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:Unelected judges might be, but elected judges are another matter entirely and I wish direct elections for the judiciary were outlawed at every level. Sure, but the discussion was about the appointed federal judiciary pushing back against Trump, not elected state judiciaries.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:01
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birds posted:do you guys think donald trump likes rap music? He was on a Wu-Tang album at one point, but that was just because at the time, that was a group of people who could give him validation.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:01
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Rigel posted:I'm constantly amazed at the silly poo poo that goons can fight about. And no, the AHCA is not genocide, that is loving absurd. 1. It is. 2. It doesn't matter whether it is or isn't.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:02
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Look at that loving flabby sack of poo poo standing in the middle to the right of Paul Ryan. loving get a heart attack you gently caress. That's Billy Long. He's my congressman. I'm... not happy about that fact.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:04
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glowing-fish posted:So, where would you draw the line at what constitutes "unable to discharge the duties of the office"? You agree that someone who is unconscious is unable by the meaning of this amendment. What about someone who is conscious, but unable to perform anything more than normal life tasks? Like, someone who is conscious, can put on their shoes and make toast, but has trouble focusing on anything beyond their immediate surroundings? Would you consider that as being someone who is unable to discharge the duties of the office? Maybe. That's not the situation we're in though. Trump is clearly capable of making policy decisions, the problem is just that the decisions he makes are bad. That's not disability.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:04
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