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Ausmund posted:Care to explain? Does that poster have an MA in literature?
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Jun 13, 2017 00:37
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I think the ending was fantastic. In the universe the writers created, she's not lying, we know. They were prepared to film sections of her journey in the other world, and show them to us, as they said. So as far as the writers are concerned, she did go, and did find the departed. (Or at least imagined it so clearly that it was worth filming a "dream segment") But for whatever reason, they've given it to us in this fashion instead, and it's just superior. Ok, in the writer's vision, she went and experienced it. And if you want the story as they intended it, that's what happened. But they gave us the chance to see it as we WANT it to end. The way they've given us the option is just ridiculously clever and I am grateful they decided to make it ambiguous. We need more of this kind of storytelling from writers that can execute as well as this.
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Jun 13, 2017 09:28
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Yeah, reading about what they had planned to film made me really want to see it, but I can appreciate the way they chose instead Plus it was much cheaper
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Jun 13, 2017 09:33
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Funso Banjo posted:I think the ending was fantastic. You may have misread those interviews. When the idea was first mentioned at their brainstorming session way back before they wrote the rest of the season it was intended to be an unambiguous look at Nora's journey into the world of the departed. But that was just one moment at the start of a long process. Doesn't mean that was still the intended meaning by the time the whole creative process was over. IIRC Perotta vetoed that idea pretty much right away, and then later during the production of the episode they didn't tell even Carrie Coon which way to play the scene. They let her choose.
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Jun 13, 2017 09:45
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Lord Krangdar posted:You may have misread those interviews. When the idea was first mentioned at their brainstorming session way back before they wrote the rest of the season it was intended to be an unambiguous look at Nora's journey into the world of the departed. But that was just one moment at the start of a long process. Doesn't mean that was still the intended meaning by the time the whole creative process was over. IIRC Perotta vetoed that idea pretty much right away, and then later during the production of the episode they didn't tell even Carrie Coon which way to play the scene. They let her choose. But let's not forget what Lindelof said about shooting the first scene of the show, with the woman in the car. Someone from the crew said "what if we shot it another way, too, from the perspective of the baby, and mom is gone?" and they didn't do that, only because they were losing light. Since then, that idea stuck in his head. Also, I'd like to think that in the other world, there was finally a full Perfect Strangers reunion show.
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Jun 13, 2017 11:14
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:
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Jun 13, 2017 11:23
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There's no problem with believing Nora's story. It's asinine to think either answer is the right answer though. Sure Damon seems to have made up his mind, Tom is on the other side though. Damon even admits that he thinks Carrie Coon's opinion is more valuable than his, and she said she made up her mind but won't tell people. She did say though (unless I'm mis-remembering) that she played the scene with a decision. She alluded that even if it was a lie, Nora was so invested in it that it might as well be real.
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Jun 13, 2017 13:48
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Lord Krangdar posted:You may have misread those interviews. When the idea was first mentioned at their brainstorming session way back before they wrote the rest of the season it was intended to be an unambiguous look at Nora's journey into the world of the departed. But that was just one moment at the start of a long process. Doesn't mean that was still the intended meaning by the time the whole creative process was over. IIRC Perotta vetoed that idea pretty much right away, and then later during the production of the episode they didn't tell even Carrie Coon which way to play the scene. They let her choose.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:06
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It's probably been said already, but I'd love to watch just a few episodes of the world where 98% of the people vanished and people have to migrate and find others, ultimately consolidating but leaving vast amounts of the world vacant, then after several years this scientist who was thought to have vanished appears, followed by a few hundred others who appear sporadically in different parts of the world.
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Jun 13, 2017 14:16
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You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author quote:Barthes' essay argues against traditional literary criticism's practice of incorporating the intentions and biographical context of an author in an interpretation of a text, and instead argues that writing and creator are unrelated. Taking Nora's story at face value really is extremely retarded and demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the finale that has to be, I imagine, the product of a severely broken brain. It also totally diminishes the power of the finale, since the lie and Kevin and Nora's acceptance of it is the whole point of the scene, and the whole point of their character development. It doesn't matter what Lindelof says or doesn't say -- we can only go by what is there.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:15
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oliwan posted:You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: Thank god you have your MA in literature and can educate us plebs. What day in your courses did you learn about Death of the Author? Day 1 or did they save it all the way until the beginning of day 2??
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Jun 13, 2017 16:26
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I don't even think it's, strictly speaking, a lie. It's just not true, and she's deluded herself to the point where she basically believes it. She just needs someone else to share the delusion with. Ultimately, for a show that so often was about the power of delusion -- both in regards to self-delusion, and the way it operates on a mass scale -- I reckon it makes a strong thematic endpoint. The alternative is to have the show come completely unteathered, and raises a thousand stupid questions that it just can't solve. (Also the more I think about it, the less I feel that Kevin's deathworld actually contributed to the show. I get that it contributes a bit, in terms of characterisation, and I know a lot of people found it very entertaining, but on some level it's basically a massive tangent.)
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Jun 13, 2017 16:29
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Open Source Idiom posted:I don't even think it's, strictly speaking, a lie. It's just not true, and she's deluded herself to the point where she basically believes it. She just needs someone else to share the delusion with. a good post in the Leftovers thread.
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Jun 13, 2017 16:33
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oliwan posted:You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: You suck
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Jun 13, 2017 17:39
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The Dave posted:I'd say Kevin's car too. It was a Mitsubishi i-MiEV  
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Jun 13, 2017 17:46
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So what you're saying is that the Shlong Scanner is real but the Departure Machine isn't.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:10
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oliwan posted:You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: I'm starting to doubt you have the worthless MA that you claim. You have a limited understanding of Barthes and art in general. You also use the phrase "extremely retarded."
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Jun 13, 2017 18:15
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big time bisexual posted:It was a Mitsubishi i-MiEV I thought it was some current electric car...reminded me of how Children of Men just used then-current Fiats and Renault models with some extra body panels to make the cars of the near future.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:27
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oliwan posted:You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: You should go gently caress yourself. It must really gnaw at you that you'll never be as good at anything as Lindelof is at writing TV.
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Jun 13, 2017 18:58
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What's funny is that you only need to take out a small chunk:oliwan posted:You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: And suddenly it's just a post expressing a valid opinion about the show without being unnecessarily lovely to other people!
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Jun 13, 2017 19:09
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"I have an MA...." ".... your view is extremely retarded." 
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Jun 13, 2017 19:12
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:But let's not forget what Lindelof said about shooting the first scene of the show, with the woman in the car. Someone from the crew said "what if we shot it another way, too, from the perspective of the baby, and mom is gone?" and they didn't do that, only because they were losing light. Since then, that idea stuck in his head. Plus it's a nice callback to LOST: even back in Season 1 people were suggesting that maybe the 98% disappeared from the point of view of the 2%, just like LOST ended with them all in purgatory, like what people were theorizing during the first season of that show 
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Jun 13, 2017 19:56
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oliwan posted:You guys should read up on your Barthes and your Foucault if you're bringing the authors into it: My reading of "Death of the Author" is that critics are desperate to pretend their views have meaning, and sometimes try to downplay the importance of the author. I'm sure he intended another message when writing it but, well, death of the author.
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Jun 13, 2017 20:19
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I'm glad I don't have an MA in Lit so I can enjoy good TV shows like The Leftovers
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Jun 13, 2017 21:46
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I should mention that I have a BA in English and this MA English guy is one of my favorite characters in recent memory, and I know good characters *nods towards unread copy of Ulysses on shelf and wiggles eyebrows*
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Jun 13, 2017 22:21
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oliwan posted:Taking Nora's story at face value really is extremely retarded and demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the finale that has to be, I imagine, the product of a severely broken brain. It also totally diminishes the power of the finale, since the lie and Kevin and Nora's acceptance of it is the whole point of the scene, and the whole point of their character development. It doesn't matter what Lindelof says or doesn't say -- we can only go by what is there. Why does TVIV always bring out the biggest loving assholes?
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Jun 13, 2017 23:33
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:But let's not forget what Lindelof said about shooting the first scene of the show, with the woman in the car. Someone from the crew said "what if we shot it another way, too, from the perspective of the baby, and mom is gone?" and they didn't do that, only because they were losing light. Since then, that idea stuck in his head. The show would have been really different if they had used that scene from the baby's perspective. It would have kind of answered part of the mystery as to where everyone went. I like the idea of filming Nora going to the other side since it can be portrayed as her telling a story (whether you believe it or not), but once you show the baby's perspective there is no mystery.
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Jun 13, 2017 23:38
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It sounds like they meant to have the mom be one of the 2% in this hypothetical scene
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Jun 14, 2017 00:01
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I don't have a MA in Literature but from what I can recall from all of my lit classes, interpreting the material differently never seemed to be a problem and I could be wrong but I was never called 'extremely retarded' for offering alternative viewpoints.
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Jun 14, 2017 00:08
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This feels like the True Detective thread, only before the foot stamping and clenched fists
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Jun 14, 2017 01:23
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Professor Shark posted:This feels like the True Detective thread, only before the foot stamping and clenched fists What happened there? Seemed like a great show.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:52
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I liked all the titties
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Jun 14, 2017 03:06
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RentACop posted:It sounds like they meant to have the mom be one of the 2% in this hypothetical scene What? I thought he was pretty clear on how the crew member was meaning that they'd show what happens from the perspective of the 2% at the moment of departure. Edit: that is a goddamned terrible sentence but I'm tired and wish that this barely-sleeping infant would at least temporarily depart for dreamland. 
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Jun 14, 2017 05:19
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I want to know what oliwan thinks of the new Twin Peaks.
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Jun 14, 2017 05:41
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Dr. Tim Whatley posted:What happened there? Seemed like a great show. Remember that kid who did really well on the Math test because he was sitting next to the smartest kid in class, but then the teacher changed the seating arrangement?
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Jun 14, 2017 10:02
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Professor Shark posted:Remember that kid who did really well on the Math test because he was sitting next to the smartest kid in class, but then the teacher changed the seating arrangement? Oh, Nicky Pizzas...
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Jun 14, 2017 10:04
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i once took a course in traffic directing and can safely say that the leftovers is a tv show that i watched and mostly enjoyed. now yield left fuckers.
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Jun 14, 2017 10:49
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I played football for the University of Phoenix so I think I'm qualified to say that this is a good show.
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Jun 14, 2017 11:40
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Oh, Nicky Pizzas... Yeah, that kid! Well he flunked his next test so his parents got him a tutor. I'm really looking forward to Season 3!
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Jun 14, 2017 12:00
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ruddiger posted:I liked all the titties
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Jun 14, 2017 12:33
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