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esperterra posted:Oatmeal raisin cookies are loving delicious! See, i'd buy the Jersey to burn, and you'd buy it to wear, Jacquelyn is a genius!
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Jun 7, 2017 01:04
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Jane Krakowski as a Native American is eyeroll-worthy no matter what the jokes around it are, because "ha ha, this white lady is an indian" is what it boils down to. I found the redskins meeting very funny, but I'm pretty glad it seems to be over with. That said, if we lose her parents I will be pretty pissed. Despite my objections, this show, and particularly this season is the first time I have really loved Jane Krakowski. She was the weak link in Ally Mcbeal, she was the weak link in 30 Rock, and I never watched anything else she was in. Titus was definitely the MVP of this season, dude deserves an Emmy for Lemonading. I'm pretty sure David Cross left because his character's whole shtick was "Isn't David Cross repulsive?"
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Jun 7, 2017 22:59
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He's made a career out of that, seems odd to object now. I like Jane's character here because she's like the literal only person to have any meaningful character development.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:18
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Titus realizes he's a bad person and needs his friends help changing that. Lillian realizes that change can be good and starts to move forward. Kimmy is probably the one I think grows the least this season but I've only watched it once so far.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:44
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I'm enjoying the slow integration of Kimmy into the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
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Jun 7, 2017 23:51
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Titus realizes he's a bad person and needs his friends help changing that. Lillian realizes that change can be good and starts to move forward. Kimmy is probably the one I think grows the least this season but I've only watched it once so far. Yeah, but I disagree with Lillian saying that Kimmy is his conscious, it's clearly Mike
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Jun 8, 2017 00:32
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fwiw I come from a small Canadian town, and one of my best friends is hella native. He and his sister are blonde/blue eyed, supet white. You wouldn't know without asking. Krakowski playing aboriginal isn't that unbelievable, from a skintone standpoint. esperterra fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 01:18
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esperterra posted:fwiw I come from a small Canadian town, and one of my best friends is hella native. He and his sister are blonde/blue eyed. It's frustrating because she has the insecure rich aging white lady down to a t alongside the 30 Rock cast reunion, but I'll always wonder what a native actress could have brought to the table.
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Jun 8, 2017 01:23
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An entirely different character, for starters, unless they cast an aboriginal woman who can pass as white. Jackie as is would need to be completely retooled if they cast her more overtly aboriginal. Which is fine, ofc, and I certainly wouldn't complain seeing more aboriginal people in main roles on non-Canadian television, but I'd rather have Jane in this show, myself.
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Jun 8, 2017 01:53
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I think casting a native American actress and then turning her into a white person would be more offensive.
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Jun 8, 2017 02:33
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Cojawfee posted:I think casting a native American actress and then turning her into a white person would be more offensive. Yeah. Jacqueline's main story is that she rejected her heritage and did everything she could to physically transform herself to a white person. So, the end product of said character would either be casting a white woman, or casting a native american woman and doing tons of makeup to whitewash her. Native Americans and their culture was never the joke. The joke was always the rejection of that and the subsequent fallout.
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Jun 8, 2017 05:04
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Exactly. Either they would still have to cast a white woman, cast a metis woman with mostly white features, or change the character entirely. There's nothing really offensive about the character, anyway, it kind of blows my mind when people get up in arms about it-- the character is supposed to be making fun of offensive people. Especially when juxtaposed with how incredibly normal and not stereotypical her parents are. I could just be seeing it differently because I'm Canadian, though, and aboriginal people already have a lot of representation in media here, and the general culture of our country. - Oh! And out of general curiosity, is the word 'native' not seen as kind of outdated/offensive in the States? Just curious about the differences. It isn't super offensive here (and I'm pretty sure I used it in a previous post) but instead that it's too broad a term. The general attitude is people have been leaning away from using it for a while now, opting instead to use terms First Nations or aboriginal (though there's been some pushback on the latter lately, too, iirc), or simply whatever specific band/nation someone hails from. esperterra fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 20:15
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esperterra posted:Exactly. Either they would still have to cast a white woman, cast a metis woman with mostly white features, or change the character entirely. There is more representation of First Nations in Canada, to the point where they have more control of the dialogue of what they're called. Down here we're still having a Washington Guntakers debate. I doubt that would fly up north. Down here, "aboriginal" would get slightly funny looks with people thinking you were talking about Australia. "First Nations" isn't really a term used down here either. Native American is mostly what's in use with "Indian" seen as antiquated but not as offensive as in Canada. Refering by tribe usually works, except with using Sioux/Lakota interchangeably and probably at least one other case like that. I could be wrong on some of this.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:37
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I used to work near a reservation and all the Native American's I ran into preferred to be called Native. This was about 5 years ago so things may have changed.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:53
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e: ^^^ That's interesting, my knowledge of this is pretty out of date lately.Dogwood Fleet posted:Native American is mostly what's in use with "Indian" seen as antiquated but not as offensive as in Canada.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:54
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Dogwood Fleet posted:There is more representation of First Nations in Canada, to the point where they have more control of the dialogue of what they're called. Down here we're still having a Washington Guntakers debate. I doubt that would fly up north. Down here, "aboriginal" would get slightly funny looks with people thinking you were talking about Australia. "First Nations" isn't really a term used down here either. Native American is mostly what's in use with "Indian" seen as antiquated but not as offensive as in Canada. Refering by tribe usually works, except with using Sioux/Lakota interchangeably and probably at least one other case like that. I could be wrong on some of this. Yes, all of this. Even within an academic anthropology context (circa 2005, at least), people in the US didn't generally use "Aboriginal" to mean North American. "First Nations" would also have implied Canada. "Native American" was still the polite term of reference for indigenous tribal societies in the US. Or yeah, you'd use a specific label...Lakota, Navajo, Cherokee, Pequot, etc.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:04
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Cool, thanks for all the answers!
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Jun 8, 2017 21:58
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Neon Noodle posted:e: ^^^ That's interesting, my knowledge of this is pretty out of date lately. Native American or (American) Indian is down to individual preference based on what I've seen. I think I saw a poll that had it at a 50/40 or so split. Specific tribe seems to be the ideal, though, obviously. Sankis fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 22:07
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Neon Noodle posted:e: ^^^ That's interesting, my knowledge of this is pretty out of date lately. I had to do some research regarding the Bureau of Indian Affairs recently and I was very surprised how much "Indian" came up in text written by Native Americans. I also learned Alaskans are always Alaska Natives, but somehow that didn't surprise me.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:19
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I grew up next to a Navajo reservation and went to school with a bunch of kids from the tribe. They would always say "I'm not a Native American. I'm an Indian" if you said NA. My college had an American Indian studies school. I assumed if a college could get away with it, it's probably the more accepted term. But yeah, specific tribe is the best way to go if you can.
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Jun 9, 2017 00:26
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Just call them Redskins, its perfectly fine according to the NFL.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:00
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This season is really loving bad about 5 episodes in.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:43
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sector_corrector posted:This season is really loving bad about 5 episodes in. Would you care to elaborate? Most people in this thread agree that this season isn't quite as good as the previous two but that the jokes are still on point. But that's not quite as edgy as dropping a one sentence lovely opinion.
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Jun 9, 2017 03:50
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King of Foolians posted:Would you care to elaborate? Most people in this thread agree that this season isn't quite as good as the previous two but that the jokes are still on point. But that's not quite as edgy as dropping a one sentence lovely opinion. I'm good.
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Jun 9, 2017 05:17
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sector_corrector posted:I'm good. I'm only 2 posts in, but you're actually really poo poo
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Jun 9, 2017 10:57
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I thought the first couple weren't great but by episode 5 it was very funny again.
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Jun 9, 2017 12:10
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With the exception of Titus being a massive hilarious rear end in a top hat I'd say the season was pretty crummy. He carried everything as far as I'm concerned.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:23
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swickles posted:Just call them Redskins, its perfectly fine according to the NFL. Native Gun-takers is the correct term now.
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Jun 9, 2017 14:31
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I've also heard that "native American" is generally disliked more than just "native," and "Indian" is disliked by some people, and preferred by others. The obvious conclusion is that you should ask each individual native/Indian/First Nations/aboriginal/indigenous person what term they would prefer you to use, and then use that. Discussing First Nations people as a group, I would almost always say "First Nations" but I get the feeling that's a particularly Canadian term. Also, Canada has a football team called the Edmonton Eskimos, and that's a bit controversial. "Eskimo" is apparently not considered as offensive in the US as in Canada, where it has definitely fallen out of favour.
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Jun 9, 2017 16:20
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PT6A posted:I've also heard that "native American" is generally disliked more than just "native," and "Indian" is disliked by some people, and preferred by others. The obvious conclusion is that you should ask each individual native/Indian/First Nations/aboriginal/indigenous person what term they would prefer you to use, and then use that. Discussing First Nations people as a group, I would almost always say "First Nations" but I get the feeling that's a particularly Canadian term. The US/Canada divide is pretty obvious, but I think some of what we're seeing is based on regions or tribes.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:20
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Yeah, eskimo has been considered offensive as long as I can remember, with Inuit being preferred for the Northern nations. Something like 'eskimo kisses' is harmless, though. It's only really bad if you're using it to refer to people. That Edmonton team probably has had some controversy, but I don't pay attention to football unless the Grey Cup is on.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:41
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esperterra posted:Yeah, eskimo has been considered offensive as long as I can remember, with Inuit being preferred for the Northern nations. So is Eskimo Brother a no go then?
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Jun 9, 2017 17:43
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Oh, probably. drat I haven't heard someone say that in a while.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:46
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I haven't been liking this season all that much but goddammit the 13th episode has some GOLD.
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Jun 10, 2017 19:23
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Are those Jacqueline's birth parents? I thought she was adopted but it's been a while since I watched the first season.
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Jun 11, 2017 00:34
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clown shoes posted:Are those Jacqueline's birth parents? I thought she was adopted but it's been a while since I watched the first season. She had some cosmetic procedures or something. It's been a pretty cringe-y plot from the beginning. 
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Jun 11, 2017 02:35
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This season was funny but the weakest. Scrap Lillian's sub-plots and the stupid Redskins stuff. Make it Kimmy, Titus and Xanthippe focused like the first season was.
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Jun 11, 2017 04:18
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I'm two episodes in to season 3 and my patience for Lilian has worn thin already.
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Jun 11, 2017 15:37
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CelestialScribe posted:This season was funny but the weakest. Scrap Lillian's sub-plots and the stupid Redskins stuff. Make it Kimmy, Titus and Xanthippe focused like the first season was. Agreed on all counts. This was my favorite season for Titus, though. He has really become "jerk-rear end Homer" in all the best ways, and got all my favorite lines and moments. This exchange made me laugh so hard I had to pause it to laugh and repeat it to myself for five minutes: TITUS: You better make like me eating beans drunk and spill the beans! KIMMY: And then you eat them off the floor! TITUS: Shut up, girl! The part about Titus not wanting to go in a room that was haunted by the ghost of a water bug Lillian killed, and Lillian saying it was a different water bug that got tangled in a Kleenex also slayed me. I kept envisioning a little bug doodling around, covered with a tissue, and Titus being beside himself with fear.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:00
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I'm rewatching season 2 and I cannot believe there are fools who think Lillian is a bad character. She is a delight and any scene with her is the best scene of the episode
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Jun 13, 2017 16:31
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