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fishmech posted:The something awful forums are being recorded and preserved in massively redundant storage by the Library of Congress. All of our posts will live forever. I pity the historians who'll go through all of our garbage.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:22
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In the future, history will be done by bots that can read and analyze one shitpost every 0.05 seconds
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Jun 14, 2017 02:24
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Since it's coming up: sorry future historians for some many tweets(14 character messages often used for quick communication with the world by groups & inderviduals) , photos and archives which aren't archived with posts. If you do see a quote with an article link it sometimes and sometimes isn't the whole thing, and LP is screenshots of people playing games usually showing only the game itself, sorry they all gone.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:31
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I just hope the secrets of the Atlanteans survive.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:52
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Arglebargle III posted:I just hope the secrets of the Atlanteans survive. good news! bolivia would likely survive nuclear war intact
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Jun 14, 2017 09:13
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skasion posted:For a relatively non-technical look at this I recommend The Bible Unearthed, by Finkelstein & Silberman. But tl;dr the modern Torah probably wasn't assembled until the late 7th century at the very earliest, the majority of scholars would say it was as much as a couple hundred years after that (post-exilic). The story of the exodus was to some degree known to the authors of Amos and Hosea, which are among the oldest books in the Tanakh (8th century), but its present form was probably achieved under Persian rule in the 5th or 4th centuries. Obviously these are extremely fraught questions to some people so it can be difficult to find good information even in a scholarly context, and Finkelstein & Silberman are not above a hot take every now and again. But I do recommend the book if you're interested in how the biblical text pertains to the history of the Jewish culture and religion. Related to this, how accurate are the biblical documents as historical accounts? I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but I can't be arsed to look through 500 pages of bickering.
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Jun 14, 2017 09:34
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There's whole books and fields of study dedicated to that, but in general the Bible isn't a great source, but there are things in there that do have an archaeological basis, and for many of those the Bible is the only written material so you try to dig out what you can.
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Jun 14, 2017 10:20
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Related to this, how accurate are the biblical documents as historical accounts? I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but I can't be arsed to look through 500 pages of bickering. They aren't history. Historiography was not on the minds of the composers of ancient Hebrew oral traditions, nor was it a major concern of the redactors and editors who assembled the text. On a very basic level the biblical texts make claims that aren't historically accurate in any sense that we can determine: the Israelite people were never enslaved in Egypt en masse, they did not migrate to Canaan from the outside and violently conquer it, they were not ruled over by a splendid united monarchy before the existence of separate kingdoms of Israel and Judah (though these two kingdoms did unequivocally exist), they were not originally possessed of a monotheistic religion. I think the best comparison is probably to stuff like the Iliad: it isn't without historical value because it tells us what the people that produced it wanted to believe about themselves, their past, present, and future, but at the same time telling a sober historical account of the past wasn't at all the purpose of the exercise. On the other hand, on at least one level it is more veracious than the Iliad. We have no evidence that any of the characters of the Iliad were ever real people or based on anything more secure than oral tradition -- people have made claims about how the Tawagalawa letter's "Piyama-radu" is Homer's Priam but that is a stretch for sure. However, at least some and probably most of the biblical kings of Israel and Judah were beyond doubt real people -- Israel's Omride dynasty is reasonably well attested archaeologically for example, to the extent that the Assyrian name for the kingdom of Israel was "the House of Omri". By the time you get near to the end of the "histories" they're talking about events like Sennacherib besieging Hezekiah in Jerusalem: we have a comparatively good sense that this happened because Sennacherib wrote about it and, for that matter, so did Herodotus though he didn't bother to mention the relatively insignificant event itself in the context of Sennacherib's invasion of Egypt. So the essential point is that it isn't a historical text by design; it incorporates material from royal annals which are of some historical value, but in general the further back you go the less reliable that is and before where it starts (Torah and the Deuteronomistic History) you might as well be reading about the wrath of Achilles. skasion fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 12:26
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Isn't it generally the consensus that the written version of the Exodus was initially produced during the Babylonian exile? In that context, it makes sense to promote a preexisting story that has that the Israelites living through a period of exile and being saved from it by sticking with their culture/faith.
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Jun 14, 2017 13:04
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Kassad posted:Isn't it generally the consensus that the written version of the Exodus was initially produced during the Babylonian exile? In that context, it makes sense to promote a preexisting story that has that the Israelites living through a period of exile and being saved from it by sticking with their culture/faith. The story of the Exodus became the national epic for the Hebrew confederacy, so it underwent a large number of changes and expansions as more tribes were grafted in. It was sung at festivals everywhere, and every tribe had its own version that emphasized its own role. Thus there was never one Exodus story, there were dozens of them. The version that got written down during the Exile was based on the memories of the survivors, mostly from the tribe of Judah. It's entirely possible that the core message is correct - a small band of people did indeed escape Egypt during the Sea Peoples troubles and ended up in Canaan to form the core of the confederacy, but the story as written down is embellished almost beyond recognition. Egypt lost control of the Levant during the Sea Peoples crisis, so it would have been a free-for-all for a while as they sorted out what to do. Many of the Hebrew tribes can be identified as local, the tribe of Dan may have even been of the Sea Peoples themselves. The tribes were a motley collection of diverse origins that glued themselves together with the "out of Egypt" story. There have been discoveries in the highlands of Judea of new early iron-age settlements that certainly have the look of new immigrants who didn't eat pork - good candidates for the proto-Hebrews, but there is no evidence as to just where they came from as yet. As the nation got organized, better record-keeping followed. The book of Judges seems to be based on contemporaneous accounts and is generally more believable than Exodus. Once they had a monarchy and court reporters and all that, it gets reasonably solid, historically. We can cross-check with other cultures and find similar accounts of events, as well as actual evidence of building projects begun by various kings that corresponds to the correct time period. So my general take on it is that anything pre-Abraham in Genesis is pure mythology. From Abraham to the Exodus is largely unverifiable oral history. Then from about 1000 BC on, it gets reasonably accurate, as accurate as any documents from that time period are. Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 14:21
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Related to this, how accurate are the biblical documents as historical accounts? I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but I can't be arsed to look through 500 pages of bickering. If you're interested in this, Garry Stevens has a good (at least, interesting to me, who knows gently caress-all about the subject otherwise) podcast on the topic. quote:In this podcast I present a layman's guide to the latest research into the Biblical texts and the archaeological evidence behind them. I also explore the religion of ancient Israel, and the development of Christianity.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:08
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Mods?!
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Jun 14, 2017 21:12
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Related to this, how accurate are the biblical documents as historical accounts? I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but I can't be arsed to look through 500 pages of bickering. Every word in it is literally true, so 100% accurate.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:49
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Does anyone have good non wiki sources on intentional skull deformation? specifically why the huns did it. Asking for the gbs china thread
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Jun 15, 2017 07:14
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snergle posted:Does anyone have good non wiki sources on intentional skull deformation? specifically why the huns did it. Asking for the gbs china thread It made them more aerodynamic, and therefore faster.
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Jun 15, 2017 13:38
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snergle posted:Does anyone have good non wiki sources on intentional skull deformation? specifically why the huns did it. Asking for the gbs china thread I have no idea why the huns did it but for the Maya some evidence suggests that it was a method of easily determining social class and position as well as group allegiance. It might fulfill a similar role?
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Jun 15, 2017 18:45
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Hats and cool helmets stay on better. KISS
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Jun 15, 2017 20:00
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LingcodKilla posted:Hats and cool helmets stay on better. 
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Jun 15, 2017 20:22
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homullus posted:No skull deformation required The skull deformation comes AFTER you put those on.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:53
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We don't really know why skull deformation was done in any particular culture. It likely was a high status thing, and also probably scary as gently caress if a bunch of coneheads rolled into your village. You'd look taller, might be the same idea as the giant hats grenadiers wore.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:10
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Grand Fromage posted:We don't really know why skull deformation was done in any particular culture. It likely was a high status thing, and also probably scary as gently caress if a bunch of coneheads rolled into your village. You'd look taller, might be the same idea as the giant hats grenadiers wore. There were some African tribes that did this until fairly recently, and as I recall it was primarily for esthetic reasons and to help distinguish "us" from "them."
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Jun 16, 2017 02:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpJli8jcXbM anybody else see the trailer for this game? it's a small-scale neolithic rts village building type thing and it looks pretty neat
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Jun 16, 2017 08:40
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Kanine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpJli8jcXbM I doubt they will reach their goal. 100k in 2 weeks is just unrealistic.
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Jun 16, 2017 08:47
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I hope they do, that's pretty much my dream game.
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Jun 16, 2017 12:06
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Kanine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpJli8jcXbM Looks nice. I might actually donate. Reminds me of that other game which came out 2 or 3 years ago, in which you build a village and try to survive as long as you can. Until one of your guys get sick and wipe out the entire population.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:25
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Dalael posted:Looks nice. I might actually donate. Reminds me of that other game which came out 2 or 3 years ago, in which you build a village and try to survive as long as you can. Until one of your guys get sick and wipe out the entire population. That game is called Banished, which while fun is also hilariously unfair when it wanted to be. If anyone is a fan of the Outpost series or low-level city builder games in general I really recommend getting it. It's only $20 and the guy is going to release it on mac and linux in the near future. zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 00:56
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9-Volt Assault posted:I doubt they will reach their goal. 100k in 2 weeks is just unrealistic. It looks neat but heck, 2 weeks to get 100k?! Apparently they have a small community of supporters from their time being green-lit by Steam, but even with the head start that is a really short period of time for a small company trying to kickstart their first game. From their page: "If successful, we expect Ancient Cities to become a powerful game platform for next developments, moving us more and more into the realms of history, exploring different places and ages around the world with you: Bronze Age, Mighty Ur, Classic Greece, Egypt, Rome or Middle Ages." Ambitious.
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Jun 17, 2017 20:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:If digital records for the whole of SA do survive centuries into the future, I wonder how future scholars will deal with the absurd amount of words to parse through, what individual threads will be chosen out of the pile to actually read in earnest rather than just running algorithmic analysis with computers. The same way we do archival research now: conduct a search of an interesting archive of documents using the terms, people, date ranges, etc. that seem interesting then start reading. Skim for interesting poo poo, read closely when you find that, use what you find to develop and refine new searches. Do that 8 hours a day five days a week and you can read a gently caress ton. I was a relatively lazy researcher and I have no doubt I read tens of thousands of pages of German educational ministry documents. Edit lets do some napkin math. Let's say you read 15 pages an hour and read for only six hours a day. That's 90 pages a day. You're a lazy grad student so you only work 4 days a week. That's 360 pages a week. Out of the 52 weeks in you year of funded research you gently caress off to get stoned or pretend you're a pikeman or just rock back and forth in a spiral of self doubt and depression for 3 months, so you only get 40 weeks of real work. That's still 14,400 pages read - and that's at a very careful reading speed. You will have skimmed over many times that if you are being even moderately selective in what you devote your time to. Now that's going to go up and down. Typewritten documents are faster to work with than hand written ones and your native language is going to be faster than a foreign one. Forum posts read by a native English speaker are going to be on the fast end of that spectrum.
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Jun 18, 2017 06:32
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In the future they'll have a computer do it because it's faster and also there are no literate humans left.
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Jun 18, 2017 07:30
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Cyrano4747 posted:The same way we do archival research now: conduct a search of an interesting archive of documents using the terms, people, date ranges, etc. that seem interesting then start reading. I think saying this will be *same* massively underestimates how much more powerful document search will be with even another decade or so of advancement, let alone centuries
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Jun 18, 2017 07:38
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But the fundamental principle is still there, even if the methods change. Large chunks of data get boiled down and concentrated (by computer or by human) into smaller chunks of data, and so forth.
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Jun 18, 2017 07:46
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I can't imagine not being constrained by the lack of information required to look in more obscure places which you only acquire as you trundle through material, much like my discovery that my research subject and Friedrich Max Müller had a correspondence tucked away, likewise with Charles Sumner.
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Jun 18, 2017 07:51
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:But the fundamental principle is still there, even if the methods change. Large chunks of data get boiled down and concentrated (by computer or by human) into smaller chunks of data, and so forth. I mean, if you describe stuff at a high enough level of generality, nothing ever changes, yeah
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Jun 18, 2017 07:52
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:I think saying this will be *same* massively underestimates how much more powerful document search will be with even another decade or so of advancement, let alone centuries Sure, but if anything that just supports my point. More powerful search techniques and digital documents that are more readily searchable (compared to, say, a few hundred running meters of paper that some intern had to label the boxes and make a hopefully accurate entry into a database for) are only going to make doing something like a deep cultural history of the SA forums easier, not harder. As it stands right now the raw amount of reading isn't a problem, which was my point. The sheer amount of information available isn't going to overwhelm historians.
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Jun 18, 2017 15:16
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What was the correct form of address when talking to a high priest/priestess?
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Jun 19, 2017 10:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c9mlOrDhc4
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Jun 19, 2017 16:11
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Ephemeron posted:What was the correct form of address when talking to a high priest/priestess? In ancient Greek, the vocative of high priest is ἀρχιερεῦ (archireu) and the vocative of high priestess is ἀρχιέρειᾰ (archireia), so that's what I'd go with. Those are formed from the generic words for priest and priestess - various cults had particular terms for their priests, so there are more specific words for particular kinds. (eg, priest of Artemis, priest of the Roman imperial cult, "one who initiates others into orgies", etc).
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Jun 19, 2017 17:29
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Thank you, that's very helpful!
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Jun 19, 2017 18:29
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Latin equivalent would be pontifex or flamen, depending on which particular role they filled. There were also priestly offices of augur, quindecemvir, and epulone which were less important.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:00
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Could Hannibal have plausibly conquered Rome had he gotten more reinforcements from Carthage?
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Jun 19, 2017 23:57
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