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It actually would trigger a mark. Attacks and attack powers are two separate things. Attacks are specifically when you target something and deal damage, whereas an attack power can include multiple attacks. An attack power like Twin Strike for example specifies two attacks while fighter's Dual Strike has a primary and secondary attack. I'd imagine the easier way to think about it would basically be unless the marked character is using a close or area attack against both the defender and his ward(s), he's gonna trigger the mark response.
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May 31, 2017 01:08
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Yeah, I'd say it triggers the mark. The (usual) condition is "make an attack without including the marker as a target." Twin Strike can trigger that if you make even just one of the two attacks against someone else, Dual Strike has to trigger it since one attack is made against someone else as a rule. By contrast, there's an enemy in Gardmore Abbey that has a melee basic attack with up to three targets, and I've also seen that in some class powers - if I'm not mistaken, as long as the marker is one of the targets, these would not trigger the mark. But you would also roll damage once and each attack separately like for area attacks.
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May 31, 2017 06:56
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Looks like somebody updated epic destinies and Destined Scion and whatever the other essentials generic epic destiny is called are just straight up gone. They're showing up as houseruled on character builds that already have them but they're completely blank. Something is bork'd.
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May 31, 2017 23:44
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Dick Burglar posted:Looks like somebody updated epic destinies and Destined Scion and whatever the other essentials generic epic destiny is called are just straight up gone. They're showing up as houseruled on character builds that already have them but they're completely blank. Something is bork'd.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:53
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Yeah, I did. God damnit. I don't want to go through that again. I also don't remember how to do it off-hand so that's a big part of it.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:17
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Dick Burglar posted:Yeah, I did. God damnit. I don't want to go through that again.
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Jun 1, 2017 20:25
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I had a look at our party, sans Warlord, and it plays out to something like this: Chaos Sorcerer: does mainly damage, some minor situational pushing and slowing Swarm Druid: some combat advantage and damage zones, some dazing, some dominating Bear Shaman: healing and THP, secondary defender Swordmage: just tries to draw fire away from his allies Barbarian: damage and more damage I'm thinking someone who does mostly forced movement (get enemies in those zones!) and attack bonuses would slot in quite nicely. So far I've been putting together a Cunning Bard with Staggering Note, Blunder and those powers that let you reroll allies' attacks, and it's looking pretty decent. Then again, between the Shaman's healing/THP focus and the Swordmage and Barbarian both having some sort of self-healing powers, I'm starting to question whether we strictly need another leader at all.
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Jun 2, 2017 09:41
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it sounds like you should roll an invoker
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Jun 2, 2017 10:41
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Cease to Hope posted:it sounds like you should roll an invoker Flame of Hope is a cool rear end PP. Though, my personal favorite invokers are the convoker types. They're just really cool to me 
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Jun 2, 2017 10:49
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My favorite Invoker gimmick was the Tiefling Invoker|Cleric that rolled anywhere from 2-8 times on attack rolls and dominated on a crit. Too bad my rolls were still poo poo and I only managed to trigger the dominate once. 
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Jun 2, 2017 11:27
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isndl posted:My favorite Invoker gimmick was the Tiefling Invoker|Cleric that rolled anywhere from 2-8 times on attack rolls and dominated on a crit. Too bad my rolls were still poo poo and I only managed to trigger the dominate once. Wouldn't you need a Bard multiclass for Life Singer for the double rolling, or am I thinking of something else?
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Jun 2, 2017 11:54
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NachtSieger posted:Wouldn't you need a Bard multiclass for Life Singer for the double rolling, or am I thinking of something else? Nah this was using the Cleric PP, Divine Oracle I think.
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Jun 2, 2017 12:21
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NachtSieger posted:Flame of Hope is a cool rear end PP. Flame of Hope is cool but I always liked Devoted Orator and Keeper of Nine.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:36
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Cease to Hope posted:it sounds like you should roll an invoker Actually, you know what, while I have time to plan: what's the way to grant allies the most rerolls possible at around level 9 and up? Always thought that was one of the best offensive buffs outside of granting extra actions.
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Jun 3, 2017 16:15
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My Lovely Horse posted:Tell me more, I had a quick look but it seems to come down on the controller side of things a bit much (unsurprisingly, of course). Invokers are the second-best controllers at making people explode, plus being divine and naturally favoring cleric multiclass/hybrids they come with a leader secondary. Take a look at Rain of Blood to get an idea of what they can do. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 21:02
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I know the general consensus is that "Heroes of Shadow" is poo poo and "Heroes of the Feywild" is a good book, but what's the feeling on "Heroes of the Elemental Chaos" (generally, but in particular the options for specific classes)? e: VVV "CON-secondary" is like a running theme in Essentials, afaict P.d0t fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jun 12, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 23:53
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Elementalist is basically a one-trick pony but, unlike most E-classes, it's actually good at its job. RBA and fire optimization both play in its favor. The hexblade pact is hamstrung by still being a hexblade. It's neither the best nor worst pact. I personally like it, but its pact boon and retaliatory attacks kinda suck. Also randomly rolling for which elemental you summon sucks, so hopefully you can convince your DM to let you pick. So, now that I type all that out, it does kinda suck. At least it's CON-secondary? That's all I know.
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Jun 12, 2017 00:20
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The Elementalist is really good but it's kinda boring to play. You like lightning optimization on top of static charge to get a huge friendly repositioning AoE
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Jun 12, 2017 11:59
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P.d0t posted:I know the general consensus is that "Heroes of Shadow" is poo poo and "Heroes of the Feywild" is a good book, but what's the feeling on "Heroes of the Elemental Chaos" (generally, but in particular the options for specific classes)? I came away with 'functional but dull' for pretty much everything in there, which I guess is okay to good for E products.
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Jun 12, 2017 14:21
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Do any of the options add anything meaningfully new, in terms of distinct mechanics or playstyle? Or is it just mostly power-flavours (which in a game so friendly to reskinning seems borderline pointless)?
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Jun 12, 2017 16:52
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Shields take up the Arm slot, right? I've never really messed around with shield builds but that's kinda discouraging, especially since I'm not seeing a lot of shield enchantments that are really very impressive. Fighters get enough shield-specific material that it's probably worth it, but it seems like you're better off taking a rhythm blade dagger in your off-hand (and a separate Arm slot item) or just going two-handed for a lot of other builds. I'm specifically looking at fighters and paladins at the moment. Edit: also, any neat paladin builds/tricks? I like the double-punishment from champion of order, but other than that I don't know of many tricks. I tend to like baladins because that affords you greater power selection but I can be convinced to go in another direction. Also trying to decide whether to go sword and shield or two-hander. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 03:12
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Dick Burglar posted:Shields take up the Arm slot, right? I've never really messed around with shield builds but that's kinda discouraging, especially since I'm not seeing a lot of shield enchantments that are really very impressive. Fighters get enough shield-specific material that it's probably worth it, but it seems like you're better off taking a rhythm blade dagger in your off-hand (and a separate Arm slot item) or just going two-handed for a lot of other builds. I'm specifically looking at fighters and paladins at the moment. Hybrid Dragon Sorcerer Baladin?
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Jun 14, 2017 06:54
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Dick Burglar posted:Shields take up the Arm slot, right? I've never really messed around with shield builds but that's kinda discouraging, especially since I'm not seeing a lot of shield enchantments that are really very impressive. Fighters get enough shield-specific material that it's probably worth it, but it seems like you're better off taking a rhythm blade dagger in your off-hand (and a separate Arm slot item) or just going two-handed for a lot of other builds. I'm specifically looking at fighters and paladins at the moment. Only magical Shields take up the Arm slot, otherwise they just take your Off-Hand.
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Jun 14, 2017 13:59
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Unfortunately, by and large, magic shields are few and far between, and almost none are a match for the real good arm items, though unfortunately in turn, those are almost always going to end up being Iron Armbands of Power, and since shield users are gonna be in melee... 4e really is a perfect example on why you don't want to make items that give basic +x to maths. They managed to learn all the wrong lessons from 3e itemization.
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Jun 15, 2017 03:26
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Probably the only magic shield I would ever consider is the one that grants resist to range and area attacks.
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Jun 15, 2017 04:08
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Wait, do magic shields really take up the arm slot? I mean, I guess they do, since it has Arms Slot on the item card. I'd still err on the side of house-ruling it to be in line with how all the character builders handled it; i.e. just letting you equip magic shields in your off-hand.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:04
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even then, shields don't compare very well to additional weapons/implements in the offhand
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Jun 15, 2017 08:10
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ProfessorCirno posted:Unfortunately, by and large, magic shields are few and far between, and almost none are a match for the real good arm items, though unfortunately in turn, those are almost always going to end up being Iron Armbands of Power, and since shield users are gonna be in melee...  "The +numbers always end up being the go to items. Let's bake the +numbers into the items as standard so they don't compete with the fun effects!" "Good idea! Also, let's make some of the effects be more +numbers."e: "Ok you didn't like that idea, but what if we made a lot of these +numbers require specialisation into specific, repetitive gimmicks to reliably activate?"
Splicer fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 08:13
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also and are people working on separate books that may not have spoken with each other at any point or indeed worked for the same company at the same time
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Jun 15, 2017 08:26
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Mecha Gojira posted:Wait, do magic shields really take up the arm slot? I mean, I guess they do, since it has Arms Slot on the item card. I'd still err on the side of house-ruling it to be in line with how all the character builders handled it; i.e. just letting you equip magic shields in your off-hand. They do in fact take up the Arms slot. You can (and in fact must) equip them in your off-hand as a shield / weapon, but not as a magic shield. Basically, they take up both the Off-hand and the Arms You can also make use of the properties of the magic shield in the Arms slot without being proficient in shields.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:48
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TheDemon posted:They do in fact take up the Arms slot. You can (and in fact must) equip them in your off-hand as a shield / weapon, but not as a magic shield. Basically, they take up both the Off-hand and the Arms Shield chat is giving me flashbacks about staff implements technically being quarterstaves, and some of the mind fuckery involved that can happen "Weapon Enchanted Quarter Staff = two handed" vs "Implement enchanted staff is offhand" confusing the builder's brain. Or friends asking me "Wait, if Small can't wield a staff because it is a two handed weapon... How am I using a staff implement?" and telling them not to worry about it. Section Z fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 09:57
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implements being separate from weapons was a bad idea and it was never, ever clear which could also count as which
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Jun 15, 2017 10:06
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Small sized characters were a bad idea from the start. They had to go back and introduce a bunch of new weapons in a late book to try to make small, non-rogue melee characters on par with medium ones.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:56
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We always just houseruled it that small characters could use non-small weapons if they dropped the damage die down by one. 2d4 to 1d8, 1d8 to 1d6, etc.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:16
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Why is that even necessary? Small races don't even have the defensive advantage compared to medium races that they had in 3.x (which was of dubious value to begin with), so why are they penalized with weapon size when they get nothing to counterbalance it?
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Jun 15, 2017 21:24
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Dick Burglar posted:Why is that even necessary? Small races don't even have the defensive advantage compared to medium races that they had in 3.x (which was of dubious value to begin with), so why are they penalized with weapon size when they get nothing to counterbalance it?
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Jun 15, 2017 23:05
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Dick Burglar posted:Why is that even necessary? Small races don't even have the defensive advantage compared to medium races that they had in 3.x (which was of dubious value to begin with), so why are they penalized with weapon size when they get nothing to counterbalance it? Because they are tiny, you see.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:37
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PMush Perfect posted:Because the sacred cows cannot be touched. At least ability score penalties have finally been ditched. Even if that sort of poo poo keeps causing problems for a pal of mine who likes short races that are not Dwarves. "A Halfling paladin of moradin? Sounds like it could work out... oh you're... using a throwing hammer as your primary weapon... Because options that let you one hand a warhammer don't exist yet..." Along with our long labored off and on many years gone by run through Scales Of War, with their Kobold Arena Weapon fighter. If we ever reach that level, I've at least convinced them to not settle for the chump default version of "Normal races get to use large sized weapons! Small races now get to use weapons like a normal loving person." on their intended epic destiny. Section Z fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 20:51
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What are the best/most fun monsters to fight in 4e? What are the most interesting gimmicks, in terms of the monster design?
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Jun 19, 2017 09:39
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I always liked Displacer Beasts. Incredibly mobile, difficult to approach thanks to Threatening Reach, and of course the 50% miss chance being elegantly built in the existing mechanics (whether a 50% miss chance is by itself desirable is up to you, but the execution is good).
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Jun 19, 2017 09:58
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