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Badger of Basra posted:Sometimes it seems like y'all could never enjoy any retail experience, ever. I think a good proportion of people don't. Hence the rise of internet shopping.
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Jun 14, 2017 14:59
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hobbesmaster posted:I live in Minnesota and for several months out or the year you need giant bulky coats and would track a ton of snow/water into each store. Why don't you put a roof over that to catch all the snow? But now you've built a giant wind tunnel and still have to deal with the cold. Let's just put some walls up on either end of that "street"! Then you'd have a great competitive advantage over places where you don't need to be messing with your gloves and shopping bags constantly! Might get stuffy in there though, and definitely too hot in the summer so we'll need some air conditioning... So the natural progression of public spaces is to bring the entire city under a roof? I come from a quite cold climate as well and let me tell you i hate indoor malls with a vengeance. Especially since a lot of main streets get built in and then the whole space is commercialized. But then again we have actually walkable cities so. I don't think anybody cares if a walmart is inside a mall or as a standalone box in the middle of no where. But everyone loves walking around in old, dense, urban cores, especially if they live close by OR (and here is the key) they can rely on public transport to do all their needs.
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Jun 14, 2017 15:06
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Badger of Basra posted:Sometimes it seems like y'all could never enjoy any retail experience, ever. So I can either drive my rear end through traffic, find a parking space with old people and other terrible drivers, wade through rival BO, crying infants everyone needs to bring to the store with them and closed artery clogs of people hanging out in one isle that I want to look at; only to find they're out of stock of the one item I want. Or I can look on the internet and have the thing come to me in a few days?
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Jun 14, 2017 15:09
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Leaving your house a shitload of times a week for stuff that you don't immediately need is not going to be a thing anymore. Americans work the most hours of any 1st world nation, that time has to come from somewhere. I would like some fishing lures for this weekend because I'm going out with my friend. Do you think I'm going to go to Dick's sporting goods Saturday morning or do you think I'm going to Amazon?
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Jun 14, 2017 15:24
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Crabtree posted:So I can either drive my rear end through traffic, find a parking space with old people and other terrible drivers, wade through rival BO, crying infants everyone needs to bring to the store with them and closed artery clogs of people hanging out in one isle that I want to look at; only to find they're out of stock of the one item I want. Isn't this literally "no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded"?
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Jun 14, 2017 15:30
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White Rock posted:So the natural progression of public spaces is to bring the entire city under a roof? I come from a quite cold climate as well and let me tell you i hate indoor malls with a vengeance. Especially since a lot of main streets get built in and then the whole space is commercialized. But then again we have actually walkable cities so. You can be under a roof without being in a mall. See the skyways in Minneapolis, the +10 system in Calgary and tunnel systems in various cities. Obviously its not happened everywhere but the modern North American mall really took off first in the Midwest for those reasons. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Isn't this literally "no one goes there anymore, it's too crowded"? I went to a mall last Saturday night and parking was easy and there are no crowds. I guess it worked! (And now malls are dying)
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Jun 14, 2017 15:33
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Leaving your house a shitload of times a week for stuff that you don't immediately need is not going to be a thing anymore. This literally never was a thing outside of the idle rich.
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Jun 14, 2017 15:34
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White Rock posted:So the natural progression of public spaces is to bring the entire city under a roof? I come from a quite cold climate as well and let me tell you i hate indoor malls with a vengeance. Especially since a lot of main streets get built in and then the whole space is commercialized. But then again we have actually walkable cities so. I welcome our archology cyberpunk future
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Jun 14, 2017 15:38
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Crabtree posted:So I can either drive my rear end through traffic, find a parking space with old people and other terrible drivers, wade through rival BO, crying infants everyone needs to bring to the store with them and closed artery clogs of people hanging out in one isle that I want to look at; only to find they're out of stock of the one item I want. 1-2 days, even. You tiny normies also forget that no store in the country sells shoes over size 13 or has a big and tall section worth a poo poo. Peachfart posted:Saying that TB is angry all the time doesn't mean she is a bad poster. She is a good poster(imo), but she does get really really mad for almost no reason. I think most people have angryposted on Something Awful Dot Com, including myself, but PMing someone to let them know I hate them? Never gone there yet. And I guess I would care about the dastardly and infamous FISHMECH if he/she were actually wrong. From here it seems like people to need to get treatment for their burns. Badger of Basra posted:Sometimes it seems like y'all could never enjoy any retail experience, ever. It's true, I don't loving LOVE shopping for groceries to the point that I object to people doing it any other way.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:08
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dont even fink about it posted:It's true, I don't loving LOVE shopping for groceries to the point that I object to people doing it any other way. It seems like everyone itt objects very loudly to people enjoying shopping! But also at the same time, here are all my ideas about how retail should be better: Badger of Basra fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 16:22
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fishmech posted:Yes it's getting common these days. A lot of malls find that they can't replace one of their closing anchor stores with another "traditional" anchor like a Sears or JC Penney, so they decide to bring either like a Target with the full grocery inside, or straight up a supermarket. A big advantage of this is that such stores tend to bring people to the mall on a regular basis, even weekly, which increases the temptation to go check out other stores in the mall. I know of one mall that half-assed this by replacing one of its former anchors (JC Penney) with a Walmart Supercenter. This involved tearing down the entire anchor building and painting a crosswalk between the former anchor entrance and the standalone building that actually housed said Walmart. This lasted for about a decade until the Walmart suddenly shut down. The mall itself is an older mall that saw its best days back in the 60s and 70s and managed to hang on by catering to the area's "urban" clientele. It has two or three eateries but no food court and it just lost another one of its anchors, a Burlington Coat Factory that moved in when the anchor before it moved out several years ago. The city it's in is cash-strapped and the area the mall sits in is a retail brownfield that largely died out by the late 90s. It'll probably be a dead mall within the next 10 years or so. Badger of Basra posted:It seems like everyone itt objects very loudly to people enjoying shopping! That tends to happen when you can order things from THE INTERNET from the comfort of your own basement without having to socially interact with anyone. /s Peachfart posted:Saying that TB is angry all the time doesn't mean she is a bad poster. She is a good poster(imo), but she does get really really mad for almost no reason. TB's an idiot. So is fishmech. They're both idiots. 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jun 14, 2017 |
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Jun 14, 2017 16:28
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Americans work the most hours of any 1st world nation, that time has to come from somewhere.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:39
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Badger of Basra posted:It seems like everyone itt objects very loudly to people enjoying shopping! it is absolutely blowing my mind people are arguing that the ones who actually go outside and walk around a mall are more goony then the people who never leave their home to get stuff
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Jun 14, 2017 16:56
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Well gently caress. I expected a slight weather derail, bit not this poo poo. Anyway. I'm currently sitting in a mall about to have lunch. The 4 anchors are Macy's, JC Penny, Sears and Nordstrom's. In a year or two three of them will be bankrupt. I think Winter is Coming for Ridgedale.
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Jun 14, 2017 16:58
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Flayer posted:That is patently untrue, the Japanese work more hours. Americans work the longest hours of any Western nation though, I'd wager. If only there was a place to look this up. https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS The US worked 1790 hours per worker in 2015 just above the OECD average of 1766. Japan worked 1719 and South Korea worked 2113 hours.
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Jun 14, 2017 17:06
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This thread keeps making me think of the scene in True Stories where he's talking about how the mall is the new town square.
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Jun 14, 2017 17:15
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What the gently caress is wrong with South Korea. Also malls are vastly preferable to whatever they set up near my home town where you have a handful of large stores (Costco, Best Buy, Target) surrounding a vast, nearly unwalkable parking lot. Hell I tried to not be a lazy gently caress and walk my cart back across the lot to my car at the other end and the wheel locked halfway there because they thought I was trying to steal the cart. They do not expect or want you to do it.
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Jun 14, 2017 17:57
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Xae posted:Well gently caress. I'm not all that nostalgic when it comes to mall shops and eateries, but I'll shed a tear the day that Sbarro's finally closes shop.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:15
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mandatory lesbian posted:it is absolutely blowing my mind people are arguing that the ones who actually go outside and walk around a mall are more goony then the people who never leave their home to get stuff I don't think it's a matter of gooniness But by the definition of some people in this thread, the vast majority of the first world is now Goony as gently caress™. While we're at it, if you want to walk around some place actually interesting, go on a hike.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:27
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Great Metal Jesus posted:What the gently caress is wrong with South Korea. Businesses got to really abuse their workers during the dictatorship years, and a lot of labor law reform to cut down on that is still missing. Bosses often "expect" workers to "voluntarily" come in before the boss and leave after the boss every day, and that sort of thing proceeds all the way down from top executives to middle managers to the average worker. (So like let's say the CEO comes in at 10 am and leaves at 4 pm everyday. His immediate underlings might be expected to try to come in at 9:30 am and leave at 4:30 pm to ensure that they never come in after or leave before the CEO. Their underlings are doing 9-5, theirs are doing 8:30 - 5:30 etc. In some big companies, the average grunt worker in the office might be working til like 8 PM many days because of this - while their salary is still based on doing a normal 9-5.)
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Jun 14, 2017 18:35
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RIP Sears (Canada)
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Jun 14, 2017 19:01
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dont even fink about it posted:I don't think it's a matter of gooniness I'm pretty goony, if the username wasn't a clue, and I enjoy shopping. I do. But when the stores are all built on the edge of town near the interstate, and I'm not exactly rolling in the dough. It's easy to not spend money when it's a chore to get to the store. It's less expensive and more fun to go to a thrift store or a flea market or something to hunt up something interesting. If they'd built more stuff actually inside of the drat town I live in, I'd be more inclined to go.
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Jun 14, 2017 21:14
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dont even fink about it posted:1-2 days, even. They rarely even have more than one or two pairs of any size like 12 or so. I'm a 6' tall guy with long legs, big feet, and a slender frame. It's so god damned hard for me to buy clothes. But yeah I can go on the interblag and say "dear Amazon; I want some Dickies pants of this exact size tia" and they'll have like however many I want delivered right to my front door so long as I can afford them. 5,000 pairs of pants in some bizarre size? The internet will hook me right the gently caress up. A traditional clothing store will just plain have zero pants my size about half the time I go to one and it's just gotten worse over the years. 10 years ago sometimes they'd be out but I could usually get a pair or two. Now? Total crapshoot.
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Jun 14, 2017 22:47
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ToxicSlurpee posted:They rarely even have more than one or two pairs of any size like 12 or so. I'm a 6' tall guy with long legs, big feet, and a slender frame. It's so god damned hard for me to buy clothes. But they could totally order it in for you at the store! I've had to explain to people that, no, if I didn't want X right now and/or be able to actually see it or try it on, I could order it too! If you're just going to order the same thing I would, and then force me to drive to the store to pick it up, you are in fact worse than useless.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:05
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karthun posted:If only there was a place to look this up.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:23
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Cicero posted:I've read these stats before too, but IIRC Japanese bigcorps have people working a LOT of hours off the books. I can only speak for larger companies but it's well-known that salarymen work like crazy. If memory serves a lot of those "working" hours aren't actually working in Japan which is I think where the fewer hours comes in. Salarymen are expected to be seen at the office for some crazy hours but don't always have things to do. It's bad manners to leave before your boss but if you have nothing needing doing you can just like sit at your desk and play Quake for all anybody cares. I could be horribly wrong about that.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:25
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Japan also has a lot of part-time workers. That may also be relevant.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:28
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mandatory lesbian posted:it is absolutely blowing my mind people are arguing that the ones who actually go outside and walk around a mall are more goony then the people who never leave their home to get stuff Lots of people just don't see shopping as an experience, which is why this always end up as a point of contention whenever this topic comes up. I try to get out as much as humanly possible because I work from home and need to escape my home office to recharge, but I still really hate shopping and will generally choose to do literally anything (even work!) to avoid it. People who don't see shopping as an enjoyable experience are still relevant to the topic because stores actually serve the practical purpose of being a place where you buy stuff, whether you like being inside of them or not. It is legitimate goony to jump from "this person hates shopping!" to "this person must hate human interaction!" tho
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Jun 14, 2017 23:28
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Good staff make all the difference for me. There's a department store I go to for most of my clothes shopping because the head of the men's department is this very, well, he's an extremely fussy grumpy middle aged dude with strong opinions on clothing (and everything) and he makes shopping a treat and I know I can trust his advice, both on how things fit and if they are good deals and when sales are coming up. He knows his poo poo so it makes shopping easy and fun. If he isn't working that day or is busy helping other people, I just keep walking and try again another day. The unhelpful or just not very knowledgeable staff at so many other shops are worthless, even worse is when they give you attitude. These are usually minimum wage part time teens so I hardly blame them for not being invested in their jobs. I like retail when you can find experts there. Sure the electronics supplier costs 5x as much as ordering parts from china online, but I get them instantly and can talk to a real human who knows his poo poo and give me advise. Invest in good staff who give a poo poo and you can retain them long enough that they can become experts at what ever it is you sell, high turnover part time kids aren't worth the savings.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:48
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Japan also has 10 days mandated vacation and a reasonable number of days that everyone gets off as holidays (but totally unpaid). Compared to America with no vacation for many people and maybe no holidays.
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Jun 14, 2017 23:49
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We live in a world where both parents work, and more people are working longer hours at their jobs than any generation previously... so is it any wonder why no one wants to trek their rear end out to some remote location to buy poo poo? Worse is if you involve any kids and they're too young to leave at home. You're expecting people to coral children into their cars, drive on average 20-30 minutes (assuming suburban living) to a shopping center, then waste at least another 1/2 hour to an hour in this grand shopping "experience" to just buy the damned thing... and head home for another 20-30 minutes. Or someone can just go on amazon, find the thing they want, and get it in a few days and not have to worry. No one shops at JC Penny / Sears / or even Macy's because why would they? At what point is the death of retail the fault of online shopping vs. dinosaur entities that never cared to update their shopping experiences of literally do anything to actually develop inbound demand? Furthermore, we can also trace the failure of retail back to garbage city planning which placed emphasis on communities based on car traffic instead of walkable / accessible community areas that also include shopping experience. To me the failure of retail is less to do with the rise of online shopping and more to do with 40+ years of lovely commercial / residential planning that's finally come home to roost. https://youtu.be/NMvwHDFVpCE
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Jun 14, 2017 23:55
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Baronjutter posted:Good staff make all the difference for me. There's a department store I go to for most of my clothes shopping because the head of the men's department is this very, well, he's an extremely fussy grumpy middle aged dude with strong opinions on clothing (and everything) and he makes shopping a treat and I know I can trust his advice, both on how things fit and if they are good deals and when sales are coming up. He knows his poo poo so it makes shopping easy and fun. If he isn't working that day or is busy helping other people, I just keep walking and try again another day. Experts cost more money than Random Teenager Making $7.50 an Hour #912,602 and that's all certain people high up on the chain see. Stores used to actually do just that for exactly that reason; there are certain stores that still do but overall the response has been "we can get the job done cheaper." But then you get somebody who knows little about hardware going to the hardware store and not being sure what they need because nobody there knows anything. It's a frustrating experience but even that is being wrecked by the internet as you can just get on Forum about *Thing*, get your question about *Thing* answered, then order what you need on Amazon without going anywhere.
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Jun 15, 2017 00:00
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G-III posted:
Millions of people do though? Sears for example is only dying hard because they've had a literal insane man with insane policies in control of the company for like 10 years straight.
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Jun 15, 2017 00:03
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fishmech posted:Millions of people do though? Sears for example is only dying hard because they've had a literal insane man with insane policies in control of the company for like 10 years straight. Well not enough people shop at these stores at a level to keep a large amount of their current stores open. As far as SEARS goes, that's another aspect to this problem. Insane CEO wealth class scum that destroy centuries of institutional value off of crackpot right wing ideologies while never once reinvesting in their own businesses to make them thrive. When a business like SEARS fails it seems part of the overall news cycle / narrative never wants to place the blame on the dipshits running the show and instead somehow it's always the fault of technology and/or THE YOUTH. G-III fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 00:13
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G-III posted:When a business like SEARS fails it seems part of the overall news cycle / narrative never wants to place the blame on the dipshits running the show and instead somehow it's always the fault of technology and/or THE YOUTH. Maybe, but all you have to do is type in "Eddie Lampert" in google and the first page is all hit-pieces on how his insane corporate culture ruined Sears from the inside out.
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Jun 15, 2017 02:16
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karthun posted:If only there was a place to look this up.
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Jun 15, 2017 10:20
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Flayer posted:I would not take the Japanese figures at face value since Japanese companies are notorious for fostering a culture where workers are expected to work a ridiculous amount of unpaid overtime to get ahead. How do they deal with expat workers (probably not too many in Japan, but probably not zero either) who are used to actually doing 9-5 if it says 9-5 on the contract, or leaving after they finish whatever they were paid to do that day?
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Jun 15, 2017 10:29
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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To respond slightly late to DC mall chat, I'm talking about a Safeway over by NASA, in that part of town which feels like another decade. Well, I guess that's more than one part of town. H-Marts, in my experience, are in strip malls. I've never seen one in an indoor mall. Our apartment is less than a mile from a big H-Mart. I walk there and get all our produce (and incredible quantities of vegetarian dumplings).
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Jun 15, 2017 12:47
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G-III posted:When a business like SEARS fails it seems part of the overall news cycle / narrative never wants to place the blame on the dipshits running the show and instead somehow it's always the fault of technology and/or THE YOUTH. Pretty much all the blame for Sears is focused on their crazy CEO, though.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:14
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blowfish posted:How do they deal with expat workers (probably not too many in Japan, but probably not zero either) who are used to actually doing 9-5 if it says 9-5 on the contract, or leaving after they finish whatever they were paid to do that day? In some cases they overlook it because expats are a separate and exotic species whose ways are not like those of civilized folk and in other cases they make them get in line or get fired, I imagine. That's more or less the way it works here in Chile, anyway. Though working exactly the hours and duties in your contract and absolutely nothing else because gently caress you is pretty much The Culture here to begin with.
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Jun 15, 2017 14:48
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