|
MrMidnight posted:Remember that American student that was sentenced 15 years of hard labor in a North Korea prison? He just got sent home due to being in a coma for the last 13 months. The N. Koreans are blaming it on a sleeping pill. Link won't open at work for me for some reason, but wasn't he in there for trying to steal a propaganda poster or something?
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 03:57 |
|
|
Alereon posted:Every time I see people bitch about how juries won't convict without evidence anymore because they've seen shows like CSI, I think "Good." The problem's more the opposite: CSI and other shows have given bullshit forensics the imprimatur of TRVTH and juries send people to prison based on bullshit like bitemark analysis or bullet-matching.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:Link won't open at work for me for some reason, but wasn't he in there for trying to steal a propaganda poster or something? Yeah, they charged him of stealing a sign off a hotel wall or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
So can we feel bad for that guy now? I remember everyone was going like "serves im right". I get that he's a spoiled white American brat who pulled the stupidest fratbro bull but now I just feel bad
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
Punkin Spunkin posted:So can we feel bad for that guy now? I remember everyone was going like "serves im right". I get that he's a spoiled white American brat who pulled the stupidest fratbro bull but now I just feel bad Yeah, I feel bad for him. Definitely a dumb kid, but he shouldn't have to pay for it with his life, which seems likely - nobody in a coma for a year has a good prognosis, let alone a guy in a coma for a year in a North Korean prison.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
serious norman posted:Reminds me of the case of Thomas Quick, the most famous serial killer (not to be) here in Sweden, who confessed to killing 30+ people (and got convicted for 8 murders) but later withdrew all his confessions and is now a free man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sture_Bergwall Difference being that Quick confessed to the murders without any prompting, but yeah, the cops fed him the info they needed to convict him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 17:33
|
|
|
ravenkult posted:Difference being that Quick confessed to the murders without any prompting, but yeah, the cops fed him the info they needed to convict him. Not entirely though. "Dan Josefsson claims that a "cult" like group led by psychologist Margit Norellmanipulated the police and talked Sture Bergwall into false confessions. "Quick's attorney claimed that his client is mentally ill and was being given prescription drugs (benzodiazepine) when he confessed to the killings.[16] These arguments were some of the grounds for quashing all the eight murder convictions in six trials and six appeals."
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
serious norman posted:Not entirely though. Highly related read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
I watched a doc on quick last weekend. The one thing i didnt get about his story is at the beginning he stabs a guy multiple times. They never went back an addressed if that was really him or not, but the guy lived and said it was quick didnt he? A guy in the doc sums it up best when he says its the most perfect example of groupthink you will ever come across.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
DogonCrook posted:I watched a doc on quick last weekend. The one thing i didnt get about his story is at the beginning he stabs a guy multiple times. They never went back an addressed if that was really him or not, but the guy lived and said it was quick didnt he? afaik, he stabbed a guy in his youth (p. long before the alleged murders), can't find any trial records of it however
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
MrMidnight posted:Remember that American student that was sentenced 15 years of hard labor in a North Korea prison? He just got sent home due to being in a coma for the last 13 months. The N. Koreans are blaming it on a sleeping pill. Every time I hear a story about an American being held captive/jailed in North Korea, the first thing that pops into my head is "Why would somebody willingly go to North Korea?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 00:30
|
|
Cat Army
|
MightyJoe36 posted:Every time I hear a story about an American being held captive/jailed in North Korea, the first thing that pops into my head is "Why would somebody willingly go to North Korea?" Most of the same reasons people take a vacation to any unique place, they want to see something few people have seen, have stories to tell the folks back home, etc. There's an added element of danger implicit in being an American and visiting there, even though by all the accounts I've read, they treat tourists pretty well, given that it is one of the few sources their government has to get hard currency. They're the international equivalent of the guy you know who's so bad with money that he can't get a bank account or a non-prepaid cell phone, so if they want anything on the international market, they gotta pay up front, so they've got a vested interest in making it a good visit. That said, short of visiting somewhere that has an active war/insurgency, it's probably the most "dangerous" place that most people could think to visit. There's also a perverse fascination with the entire culture, like they're one of the last uncontacted Amazon tribes, outsiders get to gawk at the ignorant natives, then go back to civilization and tell everyone at home just how weird it was. Full disclosure, I've read a few books about North Korea and I find it fascinating, but more in the same sense of "how can something like this exist?" than "that sounds like a neat place to visit".
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 01:50
|
|
|
Sarcopenia posted:Holy moly just once I want one of them to put their money where their mouth is, put on a steel suit, and lie in a pool of burning jet fuel for half an hour.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 01:52
|
|
|
MightyJoe36 posted:Every time I hear a story about an American being held captive/jailed in North Korea, the first thing that pops into my head is "Why would somebody willingly go to North Korea?" Sports Illustrated did an oral history a few years back on a pro wrestling excursion to North Korea in 1995 that had Muhammed Ali as a special guest. No one was quite sure what to expect and all of them were quite happy to get back to Japan. "Sports Illustrated posted:Bischoff: Almost immediately, they separated us into groups of two and assigned each of us a handler, or 'minder' as they called it. And that person’s job—ours was a woman and she was a member of the North Korean version of the secret service or CIA—was to basically chaperone us 24/7 and make sure that we didn’t do anything wrong. She was also there to educate us, or indoctrinate us as the case may be. And the first thing she did was ask for our passports, which was their way of saying, We control you. What good is a passport in North Korea? It’s not like you were gonna run to the embassy with it. You can’t jump on an airline and get out of the country. It’s a worthless piece of paper once you land on their soil in terms of its ability to help you. But the idea that they would say ‘give it to us,’ and you had to give it up, kind of made the point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 02:50
|
|
|
My cousin once went there to run a marathon. His photos were pretty surreal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 03:17
|
|
|
POOL IS CLOSED posted:I just don't understand how memory implantation is accomplished. I also don't understand why you would even decide to do that to another person. That's an extreme goal with extreme methods. Someone who comes up with that poo poo should've displayed some warning signs, I'd think. I think most of the time it probably isn't hannibal lecter style mind fuckery, but a bunch of different things going on. All of which are set on the back drop of severe stress - participating in the crime at some level/finding the victim/being wrongfully arrested and accused etc. Plus other factors such as drugs, alcohol, mental illness, ignorance of what is actually going on, various people involved being outright stupid or stubborn, not getting quality legal aid etc. I don't think it would even be intentional memory implantation by cops. I doubt any memory implantation would even result in "memories" like other normal memories. It would more likely be a situation of armed police arresting you, then they adamantly state they have an air tight case that it was you, and that the only way for you to get any leniency in sentence is to sign their confession etc. Then a few incredibly lovely years later you go to trial. I have no idea about this case with the psychologist but I imagine it would be pretty easy for one to talk you in circles in this type of situation. As for his motivation, just because someone is a doctor or cop or whatever doesn't mean they aren't as flawed or incompetent as people you'd find in any other job I guess?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 12:38
|
|
|
Psychologists loving with people's brains. Dr. Money and his patient David Reimer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer Gender is confusing and weird stuff and forcing children into whatever gender identity is pretty hosed up no matter how well intentioned it is. There's a documentary about it called "Dr. Money and the boy with no penis"
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 12:52
|
|
|
RC and Moon Pie posted:Sports Illustrated did an oral history a few years back on a pro wrestling excursion to North Korea in 1995 that had Muhammed Ali as a special guest. No one was quite sure what to expect and all of them were quite happy to get back to Japan. I love the passage about Ali as described by Ric Flair: "Because of the ravages of Parkinson’s disease, it was difficult to understand Muhammad Ali when he spoke. But at one function, we were sitting at a big, round table with a group of North Korean luminaries when one of the guys started rambling on about the moral superiority of North Korea, and how they could take out the United States or Japan any time they wanted. Suddenly, Ali piped up, clear as a bell, “No wonder we hate these motherf*ckers.”"
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 12:58
|
|
|
Sarcopenia posted:
I am aware of psychology's almost laughably ridiculous/terrible formative history, but I feel like you may have buried the lede on this one. quote:Reimer said that Dr. Money forced the twins to rehearse sexual acts involving "thrusting movements", with David playing the bottom role. Reimer said that, as a child, he had to get "down on all fours" with his brother, Brian Reimer, "up behind his butt" with "his crotch against" his "buttocks". Reimer said that Dr. Money forced David, in another sexual position, to have his "legs spread" with Brian on top. Reimer said that Dr. Money also forced the children to take their "clothes off" and engage in "genital inspections". On at "least one occasion", Reimer said that Dr. Money took a photograph of the two children doing these activities. Dr. Money's rationale for these various treatments was his belief that "childhood 'sexual rehearsal play'" was important for a "healthy adult gender identity".[9][page needed] In an interesting bit of symmetry for the current conversation, Dr. Money (and/or his supporters) apparently went on to suggest that the above statement and others like it expressing David's discomfort and dissatisfaction with the process are the result of false memories built up by his parents. It's pretty hosed up all around, and it's weird to think that up until the 90's this case was being lauded as proof you could simply assign a gender to a child and expect everything to turn out hunkey dorey psychologically for them and their interactions with society.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 13:56
|
|
|
Shady Amish Terror posted:In an interesting bit of symmetry for the current conversation, Dr. Money (and/or his supporters) apparently went on to suggest that the above statement and others like it expressing David's discomfort and dissatisfaction with the process are the result of false memories built up by his parents. I always find it mind boggling that medicine should be formed around the most thoroughly researched evidence based practice, yet there seems to be a significant amount of scientists/doctors willing to cut corners to get the results they want for... fame? Money? And then so many studies and trials are funded by a drug company and structured in such a way as to get the results they want. There's a controversial condition called excited delirium, attributed to drugs or mental illness that basically is said to give people PCP style super powers and health problems you'd see in movies etc. It has come to attention lately as these people are prone to die when police taze them, with excited delerium being determined post mortem. Tazer International distributes information to police forces saying that it's excited delirium that killed someone, and they totally didn't get tazed to death: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/06/excited_delirium_deaths_in_police_custody_diagnosis_or_cover_up.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 14:41
|
|
|
turntabler posted:I always find it mind boggling that medicine should be formed around the most thoroughly researched evidence based practice, yet there seems to be a significant amount of scientists/doctors willing to cut corners to get the results they want for... fame? Money? There's no doubt that what you describe accounts for a lot of it, but there is also a very basic human instinct to make what they see conform to what they believe to be true. I can't find the article now, but I read about a study that the Army did on this, where they presented commanders with conflicting intelligence on whether the enemy were going to attack their base or not, then asked them to make a determination on whether an attack was imminent and give their confidence level in that conclusion. They then gave the commanders evidence undermining their initial conclusion, and asked them to rate their confidence level in their initial conclusion. Paradoxically, 9 out of 10 groups reported that, upon receiving evidence undermining their initial conclusions, that they were actually more confident in their initial assessment. Apply that to a doctor doing a diagnosis for something that doesn't have a definitive, immediate test, or to a drug trial where the doctor knows that this drug works and would help a lot of people, they just can't quite prove it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 15:05
|
|
|
Sarcopenia posted:Psychologists loving with people's brains. I've seen an awful lot of useless idiots act as though this case proves that it's bad to let a trans kid transition, because they're loving stupid and don't realize that actually this case proves that you can't force a person to change their gender identity
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:There's no doubt that what you describe accounts for a lot of it, but there is also a very basic human instinct to make what they see conform to what they believe to be true. Yeah in the thomas quick case it was based on solid an uncontroversial science and they were doing good work for awhile. But they went from: some violence is caused by past trauma. To: all violence might be caused by past trauma? Repression is a real thing so its not a leap to think everybody has repressed something on some level. Etc. It spiraled out of control until the belief was: Every single murderer was sexually abused or witnessed a murder or extreme violence as a child, if they cant remember we just need to help them remember. The subject they based all this on was profoundly mentally ill, just not the way they thought. Poor guy was just a very needy and lonely person and one of the more extreme examples you will ever see. He loved every bit of it and played along. Honestly i dont think anybody did anything wrong intentionally at any point. Its a travesty and negligent in the extreme but i personally have a hard time seeing it as criminal or cynical at all. E: i guess i should add for like 10 years everybody was incredibly happy with the situation. The cops were told they would be handed evidence about tons of crimes if they would let the pyschologist extract the confessions and do their research. The doctors of course got evidence of their theory that made them rockstars. And the patients got treated like stars, felt good about "helping" were kept in very good conditions that they wouldn't be able to afford on the outs, and they were all drug addicts and they were handing out massive doses of valium. They loving loved it. Steaks, cigars, drugs, people waiting on your every whim, day trips etc. He loved the life they gave him and didnt want to give it up. DogonCrook has a new favorite as of 19:17 on Jun 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Rev. Bleech_ posted:just once I want one of them to put their money where their mouth is, put on a steel suit, and lie in a pool of burning jet fuel for half an hour. Fun fact: a significant number of unrecovered Black Boxes from airliner crashes were because they sat in a pond full of burning jet fuel for days.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2017 21:14
|
|
Bad Angus! Bad!
|
https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil?utm_term=.xdYNWLDaL#.jul1JG2YGquote:Lavish London mansions. A hand-painted Rolls-Royce. And eight dead friends. For the British fixer Scot Young, working for Vladimir Putin's most vocal critic meant stunning perks – but also constant danger. His gruesome death is one of 14 that US spy agencies have linked to Russia – but the UK police shut down every last case. A bombshell cache of documents today reveals the full story of a ring of death on British soil that the government has ignored.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 11:15
|
|
|
Jose posted:https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil?utm_term=.xdYNWLDaL#.jul1JG2YG Noted hard hitting journalism site buzzfeed
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 13:29
|
|
|
BENGHAZI 2 posted:Noted hard hitting journalism site buzzfeed Their news division is actually really well regarded and puts out a lot of great stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 13:35
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:Paradoxically, 9 out of 10 groups reported that, upon receiving evidence undermining their initial conclusions, that they were actually more confident in their initial assessment. In my day gig - biomedical research - we get to deal with a lot of over-confident doctors, clinicians who know better than you how to do your work, who are never doubtful about anything and never make mistakes. It's an occupational trait. As a colleague of mine observed: "Scientists are trained to be sceptical. Doctors are trained to be certain."
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
Bamabalacha posted:Their news division is actually really well regarded and puts out a lot of great stuff. P unnerving in and of itself
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 13:56
|
|
|
They use their click bait to fund pretty great investigative journalism. It's loving genius.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 14:09
|
|
|
15 things you won't believe about Watergate!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 14:28
|
|
|
Russian People taste test English Blood!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
the newspaper can't be taken seriously as journalism -- it's just a publisher of lovely comic strips. lol nice hard hitting article from garfield lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 17:52
|
|
|
We've talked before in this thread about Anna Stubblefield, the woman who had sex with a severely disabled man she had been practicing facilitated communication with. Her conviction was recently overturned and she might be getting a new trial that would allow a lot of evidence that had been excluded the first time around: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...n_case_has.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
I had no idea the word "ken" was used as legal jargon, I thought that was just a dead word that Stephen King resurrected for his Dark Tower series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 18:48
|
|
|
on the bored wop posted:We've talked before in this thread about Anna Stubblefield, the woman who had sex with a severely disabled man she had been practicing facilitated communication with. Her conviction was recently overturned and she might be getting a new trial that would allow a lot of evidence that had been excluded the first time around: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...n_case_has.html Blargh. I hate that rapist. Basebf555 posted:I had no idea the word "ken" was used as legal jargon, I thought that was just a dead word that Stephen King resurrected for his Dark Tower series. Oh, totally. Amidst all the Latin and Norman French, a random Scots word.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
InediblePenguin posted:the newspaper can't be taken seriously as journalism -- it's just a publisher of lovely comic strips. lol nice hard hitting article from garfield lol Yes because The Newspaper is a thing that exists and is primarily known for lovely comic strips I didn't even know BuzzFeed had an investigative journalism department!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
They've had some really good long form stuff. It seems like their serious output has increased and their garish website has become less ugly and more serious looking after they gained some recognition. They also removed their comment section which is nice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
I did know that BuzzFeed had an investigative journalism department, maybe you're just ignorant
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 03:57 |
|
|
InediblePenguin posted:I did know that BuzzFeed had an investigative journalism department, maybe you're just ignorant Maybe, or maybe youre just being a prick because I associated BuzzFeed with the lovely click bait that they're primarily known for Who knows man, who knows
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 19:51
|
|