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ExplodingSims posted:
Isn't freon inflammable? Can't a spark set it off?
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Jun 15, 2017 15:22
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ExplodingSims posted:And what happens when you throw a motor off a roof? Concrete wins: "Hi, I need to return this for my core charge."
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Jun 15, 2017 15:31
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Isn't freon inflammable? Can't a spark set it off? Refrigerants are normally halocarbons. While carbon-derivatives are widely used as fuel, halogens are very effective flame retardants and are generally very stable and inert due to their proximity to the noble gases. So, very generally, no.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:33
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Isn't freon inflammable? Can't a spark set it off? No, but some (generally older) refrigerants can turn into phosgene in the presence of open flame.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:39
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Adiabatic posted:Refrigerants are normally halocarbons. While carbon-derivatives are widely used as fuel, halogens are very effective flame retardants and are generally very stable and inert due to their proximity to the noble gases. Heck various types of it were used in fire extinguishers. This kills the operator if used in a sealed room with an automated system.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:39
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Adiabatic posted:Refrigerants are normally halocarbons. While carbon-derivatives are widely used as fuel, halogens are very effective flame retardants and are generally very stable and inert due to their proximity to the noble gases. There's a lot of flammable refrigerants to be fair, but R134 is pretty stable.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:40
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Propane can be used as a refrigerant.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:42
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Armacham posted:Propane can be used as a refrigerant. Yeah, but when people say "freon," I usually take that to mean the common CFC/HCFC/HFC and those are mostly A1 on the toxicity/flamability chart.
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Jun 15, 2017 15:45
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Any gas can be used as a refrigerant. I should have specified "halocarbons" as that's what most residential, automotive, commercial, and industrial applications are using. If you're using R290 as a refrigerant (and it's a great one don't get me wrong) you better know what the gently caress you're doing. Edit: I did specify halocarbons 
Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 15:47
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R152A will ignite
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Jun 15, 2017 15:58
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Yeah, that's great and all, but outside of specialty applications, you don't see those much. The most common ones, R22, 410A, 404, 407, 422B, etc... aren't really that flammable. Now, what will happen is if your brazing and you're not paying attention you can ignite it and you'll get a face full of poisonous gas. But these things aren't like a powder keg waiting to go off in a fiery explosion like you guys are making it sound like
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Jun 15, 2017 16:11
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ExplodingSims posted:But these things aren't like a powder keg waiting to go off in a fiery explosion like you guys are making it sound like Dammit.
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Jun 15, 2017 17:41
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The cool kids use ammonia for their refrigerant
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Jun 15, 2017 17:56
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H110Hawk posted:Heck various types of it were used in fire extinguishers. This kills the operator if used in a sealed room with an automated system.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:02
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InitialDave posted:It annoys me that I can't have it in my garage, hooked up to both fire and burglar alarm systems. That would be murder.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:10
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Cojawfee posted:That would be murder. Shouldn't be breaking into my garage then. I think a judge will rule it justifiable homicide.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:39
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Cojawfee posted:That would be murder. Well what if you hook the burglar alarm to a little incendiary device, and then let the fire suppression system do its thing?
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Jun 15, 2017 18:42
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BigPaddy posted:Shouldn't be breaking into my garage then. I think a judge will rule it justifiable homicide. http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-montana-man-sentenced-german-student-20150212-story.html And that's in Montana, where you're more likely to get convicted for poaching game than killing a person.
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Jun 15, 2017 18:43
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Sagebrush posted:Well what if you hook the burglar alarm to a little incendiary device, and then let the fire suppression system do its thing? 
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Jun 15, 2017 18:49
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Just accept the bid from the shadiest contractor that submits to install your halon system. It's a virtual guarantee they'll gently caress it up and wire it to the intrusion alarm. Our halon system at work has been disabled for years because there's some kind of wiring error and no money to fix it. 
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Jun 15, 2017 19:10
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slidebite posted:The cool kids use ammonia for their refrigerant During high school, I worked at a meat market; I'll never forget the time the freezer had a refrigerant leak.  "There's an ammonia leak in the freezer. By the way, I need that tray of ground beef out." ... "Just hold your breath."
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Jun 15, 2017 19:15
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Cojawfee posted:That would be murder. 
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Jun 15, 2017 19:27
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Sagebrush posted:Well what if you hook the burglar alarm to a little incendiary device, and then let the fire suppression system do its thing? Well the siren output is just 12V DC (a couple of amps).... and there's a couple of programmable relays on them too. I'll let your imagination run with that. 
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Jun 15, 2017 19:36
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Adiabatic posted:Refrigerants are normally halocarbons. While carbon-derivatives are widely used as fuel, halogens are very effective flame retardants and are generally very stable and inert due to their proximity to the noble gases. Florine: known for being stable and inert. Halocarbons are stable because they’ve already made buddies with the toughest guy in the joint.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:32
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Cojawfee posted:That would be murder. You could probably get away with it in South Africa.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:39
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CommieGIR posted:R152A will ignite Huh, how about that. Funny that's it's being used almost universally as an air duster. It's also a great R12 replacement.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:53
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Darchangel posted:Huh, how about that. Funny that's it's being used almost universally as an air duster. Have you never turned an air duster can upside down and ignited the resulting stream?? You feel both the cold from the evaporating refrigerant, and the heat from it then burning. Smells awful though
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Jun 16, 2017 01:05
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Yeeeeah, really not a great idea to be lighting refrigerant on fire in general.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:37
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:You could probably get away with it in South Africa. We saw spring-gun warning signs on big game park entrances. It was terrifying.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:54
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Pretty sure there is a flammability issue with hfo-r1234yf which is the replacement for r134a. Personally I'm fairly certain the only reason that this poo poo exists is collusion and kickbacks to make DuPont, Honeywell and China money. I can't see a reason to use it over CO2 or even loving propane. Apparently German automakers can't either.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:55
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Its highly combustable between like 15 and 45% concentration in atmosphere, so kinda the conditions you'd have in a bad accident where the a/c lines rupture. Thats why mercedes turned away from it after testing.it in conditions after a crash and started investing in the tech to make co2 feasible. 1234yf is largely being adopted because it doesn't require much of an update to existing designs, therefore its cheap to develop. Still gimmie co2, gently caress $100 a lb bullshit refrigerants only sold in 10lb canisters.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:30
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Personally, give me propane. It's safe to power the engine with, safe to keep in the trunk, but somehow the flammability is a huge issue with the AC? We can even have hydrogen fuel cells, lithium ion batteries, and CNG busses these days, but not propane in the AC. It's too dangerous.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:12
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rdb posted:Personally, give me propane. It's safe to power the engine with, safe to keep in the trunk, but somehow the flammability is a huge issue with the AC? We can even have hydrogen fuel cells, lithium ion batteries, and CNG busses these days, but not propane in the AC. It's too dangerous. It certainly could be done. The question is whether it's a cost-effective solution. Using nonflammable refrigerants allows you to make a simpler and overall cheaper system.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:15
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Darchangel posted:Huh, how about that. Funny that's it's being used almost universally as an air duster. Oh I know, I use it almost exclusively.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:16
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rdb posted:Personally, give me propane. It's safe to power the engine with, safe to keep in the trunk, but somehow the flammability is a huge issue with the AC? We can even have hydrogen fuel cells, lithium ion batteries, and CNG busses these days, but not propane in the AC. It's too dangerous. It's used in RV refrigeration all the time so idk what the big deal is.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:17
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I've heard stories about people using it for aircon gas in regular cars in Russia and then being just enough propellant to ignite the car in a minor accident, which then sets off a much larger fire. Considering the average reliability of Russian cars and the quality of Russian drivers, roads and emergency services, that's probably not even top 5 on their list of worst problems when driving.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:48
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TotalLossBrain posted:It's used in RV refrigeration all the time so idk what the big deal is. In RV refrigerators, it's burned to drive a piston engine which spins the compressor. The actual coolant is ordinary Freon.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:45
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Deteriorata posted:In RV refrigerators, it's burned to drive a piston engine which spins the compressor. The actual coolant is ordinary Freon. That makes sense. Don't listen to me
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Jun 16, 2017 04:50
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Another thing to consider is your condenser is right front and center on your car. This makes it prone to damage in normal driving due to debris kicked up off the road, then consider it'll be the first thing to be damaged in a more than minor accident. Thats a far cry from a sealed lpg tank in the trunk or lines carrying it up to the motor.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:56
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Deteriorata posted:In RV refrigerators, it's burned to drive a piston engine which spins the compressor. The actual coolant is ordinary Freon. Is this a new thing? As I understand them, propane‐powered refrigerators have no moving parts (but also don’t use propane as a refrigerant). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b527al9D_rY&t=788s e: Changed video embed Platystemon fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 04:56
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