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Snuffman posted:What's the best way to sync a laptop and a desktop, both running Windows 10, so the data between the two matches? I've used SyncToy for this for years. Thought it didn't work with Windows 10, but I just had to enable .NET 3.5.
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Jun 14, 2017 18:26
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A bunch of my customers are really pissed off at Windows 10 home updating when ever the gently caress it wants. People have lost in-production work because of this poo poo. Whats the current thinking on preventing 10 home from updating whenever?
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Jun 15, 2017 19:47
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Don't run a home version of the OS in a business setting?
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Jun 15, 2017 19:51
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redeyes posted:A bunch of my customers are really pissed off at Windows 10 home updating when ever the gently caress it wants. People have lost in-production work because of this poo poo. They're gonna be even more pissed when all their poo poo is cryptolockered because they didn't allow updating. They can loving deal.
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Jun 15, 2017 19:54
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redeyes posted:A bunch of my customers are really pissed off at Windows 10 home updating when ever the gently caress it wants. People have lost in-production work because of this poo poo. Any edition of Windows 10 can be kept from upgrading to new Windows releases by setting up a WSUS server for the org. Only LTSB can be set to indefinitely ignore all upgrades without a WSUS server. Have fun convincing them to pay for Windows Server and configure a WSUS role, or to pay out the rear end for LTSB licensing!
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Jun 15, 2017 20:12
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sorry, I should have been more specific These are home users, not corporate anything. Running Windows 10 Home 64bit on various types of computers. If only there was just an option to reboot in say 12 hours or something. I am not asking how to prevent updates, just how to prevent them from rebooting whenever they want. The active hours don't seem to be working with the last set up updates but maybe that was because of the zero day they were trying to patch.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:16
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GreenNight posted:They're gonna be even more pissed when all their poo poo is cryptolockered because they didn't allow updating. They can loving deal. Wannacry only hit unpatched systems. Win 7, Win 8, Win 10, the 2016 update of Win 10, and the 2017 update of Win 10 all got patches for Wannacry. Even Win XP just got a patch for Wannacry. Cryptolocker will wreck your poo poo regardless of your flavor of OS, and regardless of how you're patched. All that matters is whether Windows Defender / other antivirus can detect the malware before you execute it, or not. I bring up this distinction because it's perfectly fine to allow Windows to install updates, and security updates. What the previous poster is pissed about is Windows 10 upgrades.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:19
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redeyes posted:sorry, I should have been more specific There are ways to stop automatic updates and make them manual only. Unfortunately, your users will then get hosed by a zero-day because they weren't installing updates manually. I'm afraid you're out of luck.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:21
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bobfather posted:There are ways to stop automatic updates and make them manual only. Unfortunately, your users will then get hosed by a zero-day because they weren't installing updates manually. I am not asking how to stop updates. Just stop the auto-rebooting
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Jun 15, 2017 20:28
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redeyes posted:I am not asking how to stop updates. Just stop the auto-rebooting Auto rebooting is a consequence of the update. In other words, the only way to stop auto reboots is to also stop updates.
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Jun 15, 2017 20:39
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bobfather posted:Auto rebooting is a consequence of the update. My Win 10 Home doesn't auto reboot, it will wait till I actually reboot before it runs updates
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Jun 15, 2017 21:03
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bobfather posted:Auto rebooting is a consequence of the update. Well, since this is already turning into a shitstorm, the only way to stop auto reboots is to also stop updates on Windows. But honestly, can someone give me a legitimate technical explanation of why Windows has to be rebooted for every drat update, and why other operating systems don't. And why Microsoft apparently doesn't care about changing whatever underlying reason reboots are required for everything? Silent, background updates that don't require a reboot would solve so many complaints. Don't act like the operating system rebooting while you're in the middle of important things isn't a flaw even if that flaw is there to solve bigger flaws.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:29
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BrainDance posted:Silent, background updates that don't require a reboot would solve so many complaints windows.txt On Linux patched running executables are still insecure until they are restarted, right? I don't get why Windows doesn't do similar and just restart those.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:54
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:On Linux patched running executables are still insecure until they are restarted, right? I don't get why Windows doesn't do similar and just restart those.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:05
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windows can't restart at the component level for updates in flight because it's a lasagna of shame that probably has MS-DOS code in it to this day. you poo poo updates to keep you from getting buttfucked by the latest 0-day. loving. deal with it. i have also literally never experienced the "losing production work" to a reboot as you describe, and i use this computer from 9a-9p pretty much every day of the week for business and then play.
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Jun 16, 2017 00:52
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Deviant posted:windows can't restart at the component level for updates in flight because it's a lasagna of shame that probably has MS-DOS code in it to this day. Me neither man but I'm not on home and I think that's where people are running into problems? I don't know, but it's obviously a problem for people or they wouldn't be wasting their time bringing it up to begin with, no reason to get mad about how other people use their computers or the problems they have, this stuff might be serious for other people.
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Jun 16, 2017 01:11
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BrainDance posted:Me neither man but I'm not on home and I think that's where people are running into problems? I don't know, but it's obviously a problem for people or they wouldn't be wasting their time bringing it up to begin with, no reason to get mad about how other people use their computers or the problems they have, this stuff might be serious for other people. The reason it happens is because they probably ignore all the messages Windows pops up ahead of restart and then lie that it just restarted "out of nowhere".
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Jun 16, 2017 01:40
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I basically sit with my laptop every night of the week and all weekend and Windows 10 gives you ample loving warning when it wants to reboot. If you ignore it, it'll reboot on it's own over night if you leave it turned on. I can see people not saving their poo poo, leaving it on and then wondering what the gently caress. It's their own drat fault.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:08
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fishmech posted:The reason it happens is because they probably ignore all the messages Windows pops up ahead of restart and then lie that it just restarted "out of nowhere". The worst one is the notification that allows to postpone restart for a week.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:58
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fishmech posted:The reason it happens is because they probably ignore all the messages Windows pops up ahead of restart and then lie that it just restarted "out of nowhere". GreenNight posted:I basically sit with my laptop every night of the week and all weekend and Windows 10 gives you ample loving warning when it wants to reboot. If you ignore it, it'll reboot on it's own over night if you leave it turned on. I can see people not saving their poo poo, leaving it on and then wondering what the gently caress. It's their own drat fault. The problem could be solved by doing the download and update automatically, and just constantly nagging you to restart until you do. You come back the next day when the simulation is finished, let it reboot, and get on with life. But hey, it doesn't impact your forums posting workflow so it must not be a real problem for anyone, anywhere. W10 is absolute poison on this, because even if you pay extra for W10 ultimate you get no say. Good luck getting every freelance petrolium consultant to setup his own IT department and domain server just to be able to render a loving flow simulation. It's also great for the guys writing Cryptolockers, because every time it happens the first loving thing people ask is "how do I make sure this never happens again?" Spoiler alert: there's tons of workarounds on google to disable forced reboots. This poo poo experience they had gets relayed to everyone they work with, and people do it "preventatively" and whoops now there's a worm running rampant that should have been patched because the patch process hosed too many people over.
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Jun 16, 2017 04:38
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Yeah my neighbor renders video stuff for freelance work and Win 10 owned something he was rendering overnight lol
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Jun 16, 2017 05:27
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The 'disable the reboot task in Task Scheduler' trick has been working fine to let me pick when the reboots happen so far. Wasn't Microsoft walking back on the forced reboots with a newer update anyways?
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Jun 16, 2017 05:40
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isndl posted:The 'disable the reboot task in Task Scheduler' trick has been working fine to let me pick when the reboots happen so far. Wasn't Microsoft walking back on the forced reboots with a newer update anyways? Ah is this really how it can be done? cool.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:47
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I, for one, don't think the consumer should be able to determine when and where their hardware reboots 
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Jun 16, 2017 06:32
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Harik posted:The problem could be solved by doing the download and update automatically, and just constantly nagging you to restart until you do. You come back the next day when the simulation is finished, let it reboot, and get on with life. But hey, it doesn't impact your forums posting workflow so it must not be a real problem for anyone, anywhere. When checking to make sure systems were patched for WannaCry back when it hit I found a system that had been up since December. It had a bunch of patches downloaded but not actually in effect because the user never shut down or rebooted. It ended up requiring four more reboots before it was up to date. Laptop users are the worst as far as this goes, because the machine may never be awake and plugged in but unused. Any time the OS could possibly try to reboot would be a bad time for the user. It's kind of amusing that these days Windows systems having too *high* of an uptime is a legitimate problem. fishmech posted:The reason it happens is because they probably ignore all the messages Windows pops up ahead of restart and then lie that it just restarted "out of nowhere". If you're going to start a big processing job, check to make sure Windows Update doesn't want you to reboot already. If it does, reboot first. I think what they should do is some kind of notification area icon that's persistent and brightly colored, like Chrome's update icons. Green to say "hey, there's an update, mind restarting some time soon?", yellow after a day or two for "you should probably restart soon", and red for "if you don't restart in the next 24 hours we're restarting for you". That way there's no excuse.
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Jun 16, 2017 06:44
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I've personally ridden out Home's restart nags (a message in the notification centre saying I needed to restart) for up to two weeks before I finally get around to rebooting. If anything my complaint is that it doesn't reboot without me.
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Jun 16, 2017 07:09
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wolrah posted:As noted already an un-rebooted system is an unpatched system. The goal of the forced updates is to reduce the number of unpatched systems. If you do not force reboots at some point you end up with the same problem in a different form. That would be fine, 24 hours is way different than "Left it running overnight everything was gone in the morning." Yes, it was outside "active hours" but goddamn it'd be nice to be able to do work on Tuesday. Updates should be faster too, I've got a 4590 and a SSD, there's no reason that a system with every process shutdown should take 10-15 minutes to copy some files to backup and replace them. It's too late by now, but it'd be nice if long-running processes without user interaction had to register their restart context with the OS or be severely penalized in scheduling. poo poo happens, it'd be nice if renderers and simulators could just save their state and pick it up later. It's far too rare a feature. E: I'm nowhere near as angry about this as that sounded, cutting down the invective. Harik fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 07:25
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Back in the day, when i had Windows 98, the only way to make sure that I will be able to successfully burn a CD was to reboot windows before attempting the operation. Otherwise, I was running a high risk of a blue screen. This would probably be the best advice for your clients as well: before starting your simulation, your whatever thing that cannot be interrupted, be a peach and reboot the drat thing. I know, I know, it's not 1998 anymore, but history always (and I mean always) repeats itself. Don't fight it, just run with the flow. Or install linux. Or, even better, FreeBSD. You reboot whenever you want to and nobody will tell you otherwise.
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Jun 16, 2017 07:43
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I guess I'm a weird one here but if I had to run some task overnight I'd do a quick reboot beforehand just to make sure there isn't any cruft running in the background that might slow it down. I'm with the others in that these people are ignoring Windows telling them they need to reboot and that's where they get into trouble. If you ignore your electric bill your power gets shut off, there's just consequences for your actions.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:28
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Harik posted:It happens because some people's jobs involve computers doing computations while they're not using them. Rendering, simulations, stress analysis, neural networks all involve setting something up then leaving it overnight to finish. I get where you're coming from - unless I'm doing a full build of android (which can be restarted, anyway) a reboot won't kill me. Unfortunately, it does gently caress up a lot of people's work. If an important task can't handle being paused and started again, that's the fault of the application developer. That stuff should be done in a service, not in the console. If you're running important network services that need 99.99999% availability, you shouldn't be running them on Windows 10.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:38
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Double Punctuation posted:If you're running important network services that need 99.99999% availability, you shouldn't be running them on Windows 10. You're overlooking the fact that some people know so little about computers that they don't even know there are various versions of Windows, let alone all the crazy differences that they entail. They just buy a fancy desktop or laptop, expecting that it's not going to just shut itself down on a whim. We really shouldn't be blaming the user here, even if they are making "mistakes" that we'd recognize because it's in our wheelhouse. Microsoft has made some indefensible decisions around Windows Update, largely because they've been backed into a corner and over corrected. I hope that they moderate their position over time and find a better middle ground.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:55
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bobfather posted:All that matters is whether Windows Defender / other antivirus can detect the malware before you execute it, or not. As you previously stated, patches are more important than AV. AV is terrible and shouldn't be used. Edit* Also, tell your users to reboot before doing anything overnight. Problem solved. FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 14:08
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Harik posted:That would be fine, 24 hours is way different than "Left it running overnight everything was gone in the morning." Yes, it was outside "active hours" but goddamn it'd be nice to be able to do work on Tuesday. quote:It's too late by now, but it'd be nice if long-running processes without user interaction had to register their restart context with the OS or be severely penalized in scheduling. poo poo happens, it'd be nice if renderers and simulators could just save their state and pick it up later. It's far too rare a feature.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:39
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Give people a warning that they can delay for up to a week, then put a notification in the corner that gently flashes red and can't be removed until they restart.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:40
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Give people a warning that they can delay for up to a week, then put a notification in the corner that gently flashes red and can't be removed until they restart. You have a lot more faith in the average user than I if you believe that a few months down the line there wouldn't be tens of thousands of systems sitting there with red flashing indicators while people happily kept using them and ignoring it. If it doesn't actually stop them from doing what they want to do most people will pay almost no attention.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:36
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ratbert90 posted:As you previously stated, patches are more important than AV. AV is terrible and shouldn't be used. My samsung phone reminds me to restart it after a week of use. Pester people for restarts after x days or when system updates hit. Plaster the screen with a big fuckoff message when you wake the system.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:45
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Double Punctuation posted:If an important task can't handle being paused and started again, that's the fault of the application developer. That stuff should be done in a service, not in the console.
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Jun 16, 2017 22:57
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Double Punctuation posted:If an important task can't handle being paused and started again, that's the fault of the application developer. That stuff should be done in a service, not in the console. It seems like the forced reboot system should at least be a bit smarter about when it does it though - it has no problem performing other maintenance when it detects the system is 'idle'. I've had Win 10 reboot while I was streaming something from the Plex server running on it. Sure it knew where it had been stopped so I could pick up where I left off, defensive programming achieved, but it would be nice if I didn't have to wait around while the computer updated in the middle of what I was trying to watch
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Jun 16, 2017 23:31
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baka kaba posted:It seems like the forced reboot system should at least be a bit smarter about when it does it though - it has no problem performing other maintenance when it detects the system is 'idle'. I've had Win 10 reboot while I was streaming something from the Plex server running on it. Sure it knew where it had been stopped so I could pick up where I left off, defensive programming achieved, but it would be nice if I didn't have to wait around while the computer updated in the middle of what I was trying to watch Bbbbuttt that would not have happened if you hadn't ignored Windows' requests to reboot for a week! [/apologist]
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Jun 16, 2017 23:36
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They're in a dumb hard place at the moment, not wanting to pester too much. I only had the problem once months ago, because I dared to go out for a night and forgot to babysit the machine first.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:59
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