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Trunko posted:Can you switch from Uskuya to TSO with no punishment? Guilty feet have got no rhythm Penance: Get stuck in place and lose 1AUT randomly when you try to move  Oh man if there was ever a reason to incorporate music into crawl, having the sax solo be your penance music...
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Jun 15, 2017 17:57
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| # ? May 15, 2024 15:36 |
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Trunko posted:Finally got two runes with my formid, and the promptly got pounded into the pavement on vault 5. The answer is always immolation, except when it isn't. Sometimes it is even two or more immolations! The above may get you dead if you're not wearing heavy armor. rF+++ is actually helpful. Seconding bigass crossbows or extreme evocations. They've got Hydra levels of MR (60) which is either extremely hard or very easy to overcome. Once everybody else has been exploded, it's much easier to bring the xxxbow or wands to bear. poo poo Evo, then a beam damage wand. As awful as lightning is, it doesn't lose range to intermediate assholes. Cheibriados has two options, neither of which are slouch. Zin has sanctuary, but your results may vary. Makhleb has executioner's, etc. Spells always good, from shatter to ignite poison + otr, maybe fire or ice magic if you've deviated from the true paths. If you have enough stealth, and monsters aren't stepping in it, passage of golubria still works, as do a few god abilities and boots of running. My bizzaro shadow dragon scale formicids did manage to lose the remnants after some immolation. Really, just immolation. That is everything you need to know. Stop by the discord when playing online, or toss a paste in of your dump when playing locally
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Jun 15, 2017 21:28
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I'm going to win with a DEFi. I must.
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Jun 15, 2017 21:41
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Trunko posted:Can you switch from Uskuya to TSO with no punishment? Usk is a Neutral god so if you abandon Usk, you will suffer penance regardless of what god you switch to.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:05
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LordSloth posted:The answer is always immolation, except when it isn't. Sometimes it is even two or more immolations! Generally with Fo I do V5 by just being such a murder-tank that you can take on all comers. Zin recite can be handy as well.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:10
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Vaults5 is actually really simple. 1: Equip a vampiric executioners axe 2: Hold tab 3: Congratulations on your Silver rune
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Jun 16, 2017 03:16
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So it sounds like vault:5 is actually one of the easiest parts of this game. Cool! (PS thanks for the advice thread I will try to do better next time. For some reason I've never used scrolls of immolation, but I for sure will now)
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Jun 16, 2017 08:20
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Trunko posted:So it sounds like vault:5 is actually one of the easiest parts of this game. Cool!
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Jun 16, 2017 08:27
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Trunko posted:So it sounds like vault:5 is actually one of the easiest parts of this game. Cool! lol slime is also easy, just put on rCorr and hold tab
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Jun 16, 2017 08:31
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tote up a bags posted:lol
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Jun 16, 2017 11:31
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tote up a bags posted:lol Sounds like someone forgot about shining eyes
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Jun 16, 2017 14:25
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FulsomFrank posted:Sounds like someone forgot about shining eyes it being on super-endgame threats like OoDs makes sense, but for midgame stuff, with no more cMut... I dunno, I just don't like it. Slime is punishing enough as it is. Edit Admittedly, calling Slime 1-3 "midgame" is a little disingenuous, but the point still stands. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 14:26
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PMush Perfect posted:Isn't their malmutate still permanent? Even Abyss doesn't make you suffer through (much) permanent malmutate these days. Oh yes they are. A caster can nuke them from orbit barring an unfortunate 1-turn-around-the-corner malmutate, but a melee dude better get good with angles and scrolls of fog, unless they aren't attached to any mutations they've currently got and want to start chugging pots. Slime can be either a cake-walk or gigantic mistake.
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Jun 16, 2017 14:36
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If you're melee why don't you have throwing or a launcher
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Jun 16, 2017 15:09
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Is it just me or Shoals just a miserable branch in general?
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Jun 16, 2017 15:17
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vulturesrow posted:Is it just me or Shoals just a miserable branch in general? PMush Perfect posted:Bring at least one of the following, but as many as you can manage: Edit Repel/Deflect Missiles works, too. Really, you just need some kind of way to deal with all the nets and javelins and manticore spines and giant boulders aside from "facetank it", and some way to deal with the sirens aside from "try to kill them before they drown me". It's the weirdest 'main' branch, because while most of the others are just "do you have rPois and a way to deal with [strong monster here]", Shoals requires a lot of prepwork to really handle right. Edit2 Or you can play a Formicid with a large shield and an amulet of reflection and cackle maniacally as everything kills itself trying to harm you. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 15:34
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Do be careful- even with the ambush dead, V:5 can still kill you. Nothing stands out as a particularly nasty surprise, but there is still a high density of high quality monsters like Titans and Dragons. The ambush isn't actually that dangerous in itself, it's the fact that it pins you down while those aforementioned monsters investigate the noise and kick you while you're down. If you run around carelessly, you can put yourself in just as bad a situation. I remember when I teleported away from a bad fight and ended up next to titans and liches and dragons. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 15:38
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Unless its changed ancient liches can show up in V5. Nothing says "nasty surprise" like 75% HP to -10% in a single turn.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:11
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I guess it shows how bad of a player I am that I've been playing this game for the better part of a decade and I only today bothered to look up what exactly a scroll of immolation does.....
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Jun 16, 2017 17:27
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Well, it didn't always work like that. It used to just blow you up. The V5 ambush is by far the least dangerous part of V5, the actual danger is the powerful enemies hanging out in the quadrants who can be drawn in by noise. So definitely do not actually immolate the ambush and make a shitton of noise if you want to beat V5, you're making the easy part easier and the hard part harder. You don't want titans and golden dragons and deep elf sorcerers etc etc murdering you while a warden stands behind them locking the stairs.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:41
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Unless you teleport roulette out of the ambush you're going to have to deal with a few of those things unless you get exceptionally lucky. If you aren't going to do that, you need to be able to stop chaff blocking your ability to snipe threats as they appear. Axes do this actively, long blades do it passively.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:03
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Ignore anyone who tells you Immolation ain't the solution to most problems.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:06
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Carcer posted:Unless you teleport roulette out of the ambush you're going to have to deal with a few of those things unless you get exceptionally lucky. if you get to the outer corridors and clear a small space to rest in you're usually fine
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Jun 16, 2017 18:27
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Oh, yeah, I was just saying be ready for a titan/dragon/elf/lich to wander into the stairs ambush even if you don't make much noise.
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Jun 16, 2017 19:05
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I miss old council-god because his abilities made Vault 5 a joke. Why yes, I would love to slaughter everything in a mass of golden fog while I explore the floor, why do you ask?
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Jun 16, 2017 20:24
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My strategy for handling Vaults:5 nowadays is to just go down a shaft. Its a lot easier to clear from the outside corners than the middle, where all 4 chambers will pour out to murder you. If there's no shaft or I get dumped in a horrible place, I burn teleports until I end up somewhere better. Of course, doing this means you have no completely safe place to fall back too, so you have to be pretty liberal with your consumable usage if you find yourself in a bad spot.
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Jun 16, 2017 20:39
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Internet Kraken posted:My strategy for handling Vaults:5 nowadays is to just go down a shaft. Its a lot easier to clear from the outside corners than the middle, where all 4 chambers will pour out to murder you. If there's no shaft or I get dumped in a horrible place, I burn teleports until I end up somewhere better. I go down the main stairs so I can make a bunch of noise in the center, then teleport away after a couple turns when I'm sure everything is coming my way. It usually helps to make the teleport landing spots a bit safer.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:05
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Floodkiller posted:I go down the main stairs so I can make a bunch of noise in the center, then teleport away after a couple turns when I'm sure everything is coming my way. It usually helps to make the teleport landing spots a bit safer. this is usually my strategy as well. 90% of the time it works every time i mean, apart from my other strategy of "don't do v:5"
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Jun 16, 2017 21:52
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I must be the only person who doesn't rely completely on chance when running v5. 1. Haste, Agility, whatever other buffs you find appropriate (heroism, etc). 2. Go down. 3. Read magic mapping. In some cases there will be a grid pattern or otherwise obvious choke point where only 1-2 enemies can get to you at once OR SEE YOU (important!). In that case your best bet is to move there. Most V5 attackers will have no problem handing 1-2 of any enemy, if you can't you have no business being here. This is also the point where if you are Fo and you don't see a good hidey hole to run to or a pair of easily broken quadrants you should go back upstairs and get another rune. 4. Examine the map:  In most cases, like this one, there's no clear hidey hole.You are now going to head for the outer walls. Identify where you want to go based on quadrant layout. Quadrants closed by doors or mostly blocked by walls are best. Both the right quadrants are total disasters with open layouts and half to all of the quadrant coming from one or two shouts. The upper left quadrant is ideal because the bottom left corner (circled in red) is a natural sound and sight block. And the bottom left quadrant is designed where if I ran towards the pink x I would get pulls but maybe max of a third of the quadrant if it goes really poorly. 5. Blink in that direction - in this case, west. Sometimes there will be a path thru the guards but blink so stuff does not see you and you take a minimum of damage. 6. (optional) if you have immol and a good way to guarantee blowing up one or two guys (evocables etc) you might as well blow up the center spawn now and make a fuckton of noise to pull things out of the quads. This is also good in case you need to tport later as you probably emptied a couple quadrants. Don't do this if it will slow your roll, you want to get out of there while a minimum of things drawn to the center by shouts see you. 7. Run to the outer wall. Stop to deal with problematical attackers like titans, demon summoners, anything with anything corrosive. 8. Run up to your target spot (far enough that you can't see the intersection to the south. 9. Fight. If you immolated the center on your way out you can likely teleport if things go bad because at least a couple quads will be emptied. It's rare that I have any real trouble doing it this way. Sitting in the center means you are usually hosed up when you finally have to teleport. Shafting or immediately teleporting is likely to put you in a situation where you have to teleport 1 or 2 more times to reach a position you can defend and by then you are messed up.
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Jun 16, 2017 22:51
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Is there a way to check the % number of times you have died on a floor vs visited it for webtiles? Because I think I have been to Vault 5 probably almost a hundred times and died on it, like, twice. It's definitely at a pretty easy spot in the game in my opinion, for character power versus threat. I usually do it as my 2nd or 3rd rune (rarely 4th) depending on what's in lair.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:01
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Araganzar posted:I must be the only person who doesn't rely completely on chance when running v5. Great explanation here, this is essentially the same as mine but I use ?fear instead of ?blink to get out. jon joe posted:Is there a way to check the % number of times you have died on a floor vs visited it for webtiles? Because I think I have been to Vault 5 probably almost a hundred times and died on it, like, twice. It's definitely at a pretty easy spot in the game in my opinion, for character power versus threat. I usually do it as my 2nd or 3rd rune (rarely 4th) depending on what's in lair. code:
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Jun 16, 2017 23:12
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Internet Kraken posted:They definitely aren't gonna add any religious backgrounds. There's a reason they removed basically all of them. I am actually kind of curious as to what the reason was, I could see the argument being that it made builds too pre-determined or that it added too much power early on
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Jun 16, 2017 23:21
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a big reason most god-starts have been removed is because "picking a god is interesting" and I tend to agree with it; a lot of gameplay is decided for me when i go "hmm should I worship at this early/faded altar I found, or wait til temple to find who I really want?" It's an important piece of the design and god-starts take that away Healer was removed because of "Pacify becoming available later and no longer being usable on every monster as a method to gain piety", so they felt it wasn't gameplay-defining enough to be a start background. Death Knight was removed at around the same time and for similar reasons -- starting yred wasn't defining enough. i can't find the specific commit for Pr being removed and i'm too lazy to dig anymore
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Jun 16, 2017 23:42
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~gently caress the abyss~
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Jun 16, 2017 23:56
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Thanks for the Vs suggestions a few pages back. In the same vein, how about Octopode? I'm trying to branch out into all the different races I've never tried before so any cool and/or non-obvious combos would be appreciated. Also, since I'm still basically relearning this game, what is the general strategy for use of enchant weapon/armor and brand scrolls? I know this is going to vary a lot based on the particular circumstances of any particular game but any kind of general strategy with regard to those scrolls would be awesome.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:48
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Apparently I've only been to Vaults 5 17 times? It definitely feels like way more than that, does the counter change with versions or something? Good news is of those 17 I've only died once, apparently.
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Jun 17, 2017 01:12
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vulturesrow posted:Also, since I'm still basically relearning this game, what is the general strategy for use of enchant weapon/armor and brand scrolls? I know this is going to vary a lot based on the particular circumstances of any particular game but any kind of general strategy with regard to those scrolls would be awesome. This is super general, as you say I might change a lot depending on finds/survivability/etc. Use enchant armour on aux slots quickly. It often takes a very long time (if ever) to find meaningfully branded boots, for example. Even other slots, often you won't find anything, or you won't care about the brand when you do get it. So take the AC. For enchanting body armour, I want it to be a decent chance that I'd be using it for most of the rest of the 3-rune game. So Archmagi, any ego plate, dragon armour, etc. For enchanting weapons when not with Trog, I'll usually enchant a branded weapon as far as +4 to +6 if I think I'll be using it for the next branch or so. Enchant beyond that if I think I might use it for most of the 3-rune game. Brand scroll: any poorly-branded (or unbranded), enchanted weapon, as long as I won't be too upset with venom/protection/chaos/whatever_brand_I_hate. Having extra brand scrolls gives you a little security on that. With Trog: you should get your preferred basetype soon enough, enchant it. if you have 2 antimagic one or otherwise a spare, rebrand one. Alternate approach: use every enchant scroll right away, until you start having games where you're in the late game and super annoyed by not having any and then develop your own approach. It's far too common to save them instead of using them - even being aware of that I can't stop myself sometimes. jon joe posted:Apparently I've only been to Vaults 5 17 times? It definitely feels like way more than that, does the counter change with versions or something? As long as you're playing on the same name or have your nickname mapped to those names they count, though experimental branches (like smithgod etc.) won't.
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Jun 17, 2017 01:28
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vulturesrow posted:Thanks for the Vs suggestions a few pages back. In the same vein, how about Octopode? I'm trying to branch out into all the different races I've never tried before so any cool and/or non-obvious combos would be appreciated. I'm pretty fond of OpIE. You train ice magic (with a bit of charms and summoning) until you can cast everything in the starting manual, get a bit of fighting and dodging, then turn everything off and go hard into UC. Freeze avoids the weaknesses of low-level UC (slow, inaccurate, low damage), Ozucubu's covers for Op's squishiness, ice beasts clear earlymid threats like hydras, and throw icicle gives a solid ranged option. I use whatever enchanted weapon I find to clear out skeletons/zombies in the early game. I tend to pick Chei but most non-Trog gods work. Post-lair you'll have pretty much everything you need (high UC, decent fighting/dodging/invo, enough magic to cast spells) to make the build work. Things like transmutations, lesser beckoning, and deflect missiles cover additional weaknesses. With Cheistats and no armour pretty much anything is castable.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:02
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vulturesrow posted:Thanks for the Vs suggestions a few pages back. In the same vein, how about Octopode? I'm trying to branch out into all the different races I've never tried before so any cool and/or non-obvious combos would be appreciated. Op is a Bad Race because even if you find eight good rings, you're not really better off than someone who found good gear for every slot, and you're so squishy for so long.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:19
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Gnolls are new and fun and bad, which is the best combination for Crawl races that make for a good change of pace, and I mean that unironically. Barachi are new and fun and good, if you'd rather not suck by midgame.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:29
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